Tinkers In Our Future?

[Ielenia]

I never mention population of players.Its "likehood lorewise to justify a Race/class combo"

1 night elf Paladin doesn't justify the combo.

A active presence of Tauren's paladins in the Argent Crusade and the Lore of the Sunwalkers justify the Combo.

Ah, I got it now.

As far as I know, we only have two Night Elf paladins, so what you're saying makes sense. However, as far as a tech class possibility, we have many examples of dwarven engineers, forsaken engineers, human engineers.. even orc engineers. So the 'seed' is there for the possible race/class combo.

[Teriz]

Folks saying engineering covers the tinker class fantasy - such a bizarre argument.

That's like saying we don't need warriors because blacksmithing is a thing. Sure, you can give your mage a bronze sword and just sit back and watch them autoattack mobs. But it doesn't strike me as the most satisfying class experience.

I also get the impression most folks on here never played WC3.

I don't think we'll see tinkers in 8.0 or 9.0 - I can't imagine the storyline that would put tinkers, goblins, and gnomes in the spotlight. But the rationale people are using against them is getting downright quixotic.

As stated before, it can work in a Azshara/N'Zoth expansion since so many major Goblin areas both in game and in lore are in the vicinity. You can always slap on the actual retaking of Undermine and Gnomeregan to give Goblins and Gnomes some decent spotlight.

[Darktbs]

Ah, I got it now.

As far as I know, we only have two Night Elf paladins, so what you're saying makes sense. However, as far as a tech class possibility, we have many examples of dwarven engineers, forsaken engineers, human engineers.. even orc engineers. So the 'seed' is there for the possible race/class combo.

Blizz could pull a "Council of the Black Harvest" where the best Engineers of the world got together to teach then their best weapons and designs.

With new Lore, anything can happen.

With that being said, i wish they did the same with Tinkers, what they did with Demon Hunters.Limit then to two races but work on the details.

Druids specially got lots customization on the artifact skins and i belive they can do the same with the Tinkers weapons, specially with their constructs.

Ulduar style
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...20081105170745

Blood elf
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...all/454495.jpg

Or even Legion style
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...all/454495.jpg

[wholol]

Why do people speak of lore as if it still has any semblance of importance left in the decision making process within blizzard?

They've shown time and time again lore can be bent,twisted and just simply made up to fit their desired route.

Also the argument about tinkers and engineers is lacking, gnomish mind control cap or whatever it's called shares similarities with the priest mind control, net's and explosives share similarities with hunter abilities but does this bother anyone ? besides being an engineer is the creator whilst being a tinker is the user of such inventions, similarly to the concept of blacksmithing/ warrior description used some posts above.

Besides I fail to see why people would not like the idea of tinkers in the game , it's a breath of fresh air in the current state of class design.

[Ielenia]

With that being said, i wish they did the same with Tinkers, what they did with Demon Hunters.Limit then to two races but work on the details.

I agree with what you posted, but this one here is a point of contention, for me, for the following reason: race popularity. Even before Demon Hunters were implemented, blood elves and night elves were already one of the two most popular (if not the most popular) races of their respective factions, so, even restricting the Demon Hunter to those two races, the class' popularity was very unlikely to suffer because it was restricted to just two races.

Tinkers, on the other hand, if they were restricted to just two races, those two races would be gnomes and goblins, who are currently the 'polar opposites' of the elves: they are two of the least popular races in their respective faction, so if a tech class is restricted to only those two races, the class' popularity is much, much more likely to suffer due to those two races' unpopularity. And going with Blizzard's desire to be inclusive, it's unlikely they'll restrict the class like that.

[Teriz]

I agree with what you posted, but this one here is a point of contention, for me, for the following reason: race popularity. Even before Demon Hunters were implemented, blood elves and night elves were already one of the two most popular (if not the most popular) races of their respective factions, so, even restricting the Demon Hunter to those two races, the class' popularity was very unlikely to suffer because it was restricted to just two races.

Tinkers, on the other hand, if they were restricted to just two races, those two races would be gnomes and goblins, who are currently the 'polar opposites' of the elves: they are two of the least popular races in their respective faction, so if a tech class is restricted to only those two races, the class' popularity is much, much more likely to suffer due to those two races' unpopularity. And going with Blizzard's desire to be inclusive, it's unlikely they'll restrict the class like that.

It could be argued that Goblins and Gnomes are less popular because their race lacks a class that properly represents their racial culture and lore, and there isn't a class that matches the prominent characters of their race, particularly their racial leaders Gallywix and Mekkatorque.

Think about it; The most popular Blood Elf classes are Paladins, Death Knights, Demon Hunters, and Mages.
Most popular Night Elf classes are Druids, Hunters, Demon Hunters, and Rogues.

In other words, classes that match the prominent lore characters of their race.

Goblins and Gnomes don't have that.

[Role Unknown]

It could be argued that Goblins and Gnomes are less popular because their race lacks a class that properly represents their racial culture and lore, and there isn't a class that matches the prominent characters of their race, particularly their racial leaders Gallywix and Mekkatorque.

Think about it; The most popular Blood Elf classes are Paladins, Death Knights, Demon Hunters, and Mages.
Most popular Night Elf classes are Druids, Hunters, Demon Hunters, and Rogues.

In other words, classes that match the prominent lore characters of their race.

Goblins and Gnomes don't have that.

I agree with that.....I avoid using goblins and gnomes as races for the classes i choose, because....well, a goblin priest....just doesn't feel right, and a gnome hunter?!?!....please...the animal should always eat that little bastard, BUT if Blizz instituted Tinkers....I would have no problem playing either a goblin or gnome tinker!

[Ielenia]

It could be argued that Goblins and Gnomes are less popular because their race lacks a class that properly represents their racial culture and lore, and there isn't a class that matches the prominent characters of their race, particularly their racial leaders Gallywix and Mekkatorque.

Think about it; The most popular Blood Elf classes are Paladins, Death Knights, Demon Hunters, and Mages.
Most popular Night Elf classes are Druids, Hunters, Demon Hunters, and Rogues.

In other words, classes that match the prominent lore characters of their race.

Goblins and Gnomes don't have that.

It could be argued, yes, but it would be a very weak argument. The reason for that is the myriad of 'gnome-punting' and 'gnome-stomping' and other gnome/goblin jokes that existed throughout of WoW's existence. Gnomes and Goblins were (until the Pandaren) the only races that were designed with quite a lot of silliness inherent to them, and considering gnomes, goblins and pandaren are the three least races in the game, and are the only three races designed with a lot of silliness to their design, it makes a strong argument that it's their silliness that keeps them low in popularity and not any lack of class representation.

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gnome hunter?!?!....please...the animal should always eat that little bastard,

Blizzard added mechanical pets to the game, and gave goblins and gnomes an inherent ability to 'tame' them. Other hunters need an engineering item for that.

[Tripzzz]

It could be argued, yes, but it would be a very weak argument. The reason for that is the myriad of 'gnome-punting' and 'gnome-stomping' and other gnome/goblin jokes that existed throughout of WoW's existence. Gnomes and Goblins were (until the Pandaren) the only races that were designed with quite a lot of silliness inherent to them, and considering gnomes, goblins and pandaren are the three least races in the game, and are the only three races designed with a lot of silliness to their design, it makes a strong argument that it's their silliness that keeps them low in popularity and not any lack of class representation.

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Blizzard added mechanical pets to the game, and gave goblins and gnomes an inherent ability to 'tame' them. Other hunters need an engineering item for that.

Your argument is that Gnomes and Goblins are unpopular, therefore they should NOT get something that would make them more popular? Da fuck? That's a fucking shitty argument.

[Azalar]

Blizz could pull a "Council of the Black Harvest" where the best Engineers of the world got together to teach then their best weapons and designs.

With new Lore, anything can happen.

I dig that

[Teriz]

I agree with that.....I avoid using goblins and gnomes as races for the classes i choose, because....well, a goblin priest....just doesn't feel right, and a gnome hunter?!?!....please...the animal should always eat that little bastard, BUT if Blizz instituted Tinkers....I would have no problem playing either a goblin or gnome tinker!

I'm in the same boat really. I don't mind Goblins or Gnomes (and I actually kind of like Goblins), but I don't play as any of them because their available classes simply seem to fit better with other races. A tinker class would definitely change that.

[Ielenia]

Your argument is that Gnomes and Goblins are unpopular, therefore they should NOT get something that would make them more popular? Da fuck? That's a fucking shitty argument.

You're saying that gnomes and goblins should not be able to select a new class due to their unpopularity. That is not my argument.

What I'm saying is: I believe that, due to the very low popularity of those races (gnomes and goblins), adding a class that can be used exclusively by those two races would hurt the class' popularity much more than it would help these two races' popularity. And considering Blizzard's tendency of making things as inclusive as possible, it is very, very unlikely (in my opinion) that a tech class would be restricted to just those two races.

[Teriz]

You're saying that gnomes and goblins should not be able to select a new class due to their unpopularity. That is not my argument.

What I'm saying is: I believe that, due to the very low popularity of those races (gnomes and goblins), adding a class that can be used exclusively by those two races would hurt the class' popularity much more than it would help these two races' popularity. And considering Blizzard's tendency of making things as inclusive as possible, it is very, very unlikely (in my opinion) that a tech class would be restricted to just those two races.

I actually agree with some of that ( I know, I can't believe it either.. ) because there were people complaining about Demon Hunters because they were confined to two races.

My main issue with spreading the potential class too widely is that it becomes generic instead of unique, and it loses its flavor. For all its faults, the DH class is LOADED with flavor because it's confined to Night Elves and Blood Elves, and it sticks very close to its roots in lore and WC3. I think you make a more interesting class the more you limit its racial options.

[Kiradyn]

Tinkers are the only class concept that can do physical ranged without heavily overlapping with Hunters, and has a solid basis within the Warcraft universe.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but how are you certain they could be different from hunters?

[Ielenia]

I actually agree with some of that ( I know, I can't believe it either.. ) because there were people complaining about Demon Hunters because they were confined to two races.

My main issue with spreading the potential class too widely is that it becomes generic instead of unique, and it loses its flavor. For all its faults, the DH class is LOADED with flavor because it's confined to Night Elves and Blood Elves, and it sticks very close to its roots in lore and WC3. I think you make a more interesting class the more you limit its racial options.

I believe a good middle-ground would be if the tech class was just, say, gnomes and dwarves for Alliance, goblins and forsaken to the Horde. Dwarves are also notorious for being ingenious engineers, having built airplanes, tanks, etc. And forsaken are, after the goblins, the most 'industrialized' race within the Horde.

(Though I do hope at least humans and either orc, troll or BE, as the four races mentioned above are my least favorites. >.>)

[Teriz]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but how are you certain they could be different from hunters?

If the leak is to be believed and they're going the mech route, that opens up a few gameplay options. One option that I would like to see implemented is a gameplay set up similar to D.Va from overwatch. In that game she has a pilot mode and a mech mode.

Tank/melee DPS/ Ranged DPS is probably what we're looking at here, with melee DPS being loaded with ranged abilities. Melee DPS and Tank would spend most of the time in the mech, with ranged DPS being more in pilot mode the majority of the time. It could possibly use the mech as a cooldown (and possible ranged attack) and using a ranged weapon.

Beyond that, turrets, flamethrower, comes AoE blasts, channeled beams, and targeted bombs of various types will probably be the differentiating factor.

If the leak is false, forget everything I just typed.

[-Joker-]

You can't science your way into being a shaman. You have to bargain with the elements, something the goblins are good at. This doesnt mean Gnomes can't be shamans though.

I would imagine a race as intellectually advanced as the Gnomes could surely bargain with some elements. In addition, I could see a few dreamer Gnomes who are less about tech and more about the Light making their way to the capital to work with Dwarven Paladins and learn how to fill and channel such power. Given the Race class unlocks so far, there are very few that would break lore as much as Holy Forsaken Priests. But I digress.

When it comes to tinkers, there is enough to differentiate between them and everyday engineers. Tinkers would possess:

- Powerful weapons which attach to a mech suit
- Enhanced munitions abilities which would almost triple the amount of explosive damage from a standard ENG item
- Not only the ability to reverse ENG something in the field (like a harvester) but the ability to reconstruct it and have it as a battle companion for a time duration. (Think reprogramming quests from Wrath in Borean Tundra)
- Two tank specs (melee explosives and melee mechanical) each with some ranged capability
- One DPS spec (rapid fire munitions stunning and wearing down enemies/opponents)
- Possibly: One Healing spec (robo medic of sorts with darts, injectors, and the occasional Nature grenade that AoEs all party members in a 10M circle.)

There is plenty to separate Tinkers from ENG. Sadly, most people are usually happier fighting and opposing ideas than discussing them.

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I believe a good middle-ground would be if the tech class was just, say, gnomes and dwarves for Alliance, goblins and forsaken to the Horde. Dwarves are also notorious for being ingenious engineers, having built airplanes, tanks, etc. And forsaken are, after the goblins, the most 'industrialized' race within the Horde.

(Though I do hope at least humans and either orc, troll or BE, as the four races mentioned above are my least favorites. >.>)

Well, now we know why you hate the idea of a tech class. The ones that make the most sense, you hate. #MysterySolved

[Ielenia]

If the leak is to be believed and they're going the mech route, that opens up a few gameplay options. One option that I would like to see implemented is a gameplay set up similar to D.Va from overwatch. In that game she has a pilot mode and a mech mode.

While that idea sounds cool on paper, if you stop to think about it, it can sound either very OP or very broken, depending on the situation. I mean, as a tank, it would be akin to giving tanks a second life. Mech dies, step back, shoot until you can call another mech. That's quite OP as it saves a battle-rez for someone else. But if you cannot recall your mech while in a fight, then it's broken because your group is now effectively minus one tank for the rest of the fight. Then there's the fact that it'd take basically double the effort to balance, since the class becomes 'two in one' per spec.

If I recall correctly, I do believe Jeff Kaplan said that the only reason Overwatch has D.Va is because the team fell in love with the character, otherwise she wouldn't have been implemented as she is, by far, the hardest hero to balance, and the one more prone to 'break' and bug out, due to effectively being 'two-in-one'.

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Well, now we know why you hate the idea of a tech class. The ones that make the most sense, you hate. #MysterySolved

Ha. Ha. Ha. (/sarcasm)

[-Joker-]

Ha. Ha. Ha. (/sarcasm)

Your words. Not mine.

I believe a good middle-ground would be if the tech class was just, say, gnomes and dwarves for Alliance, goblins and forsaken to the Horde. Dwarves are also notorious for being ingenious engineers, having built airplanes, tanks, etc. And forsaken are, after the goblins, the most 'industrialized' race within the Horde.

(Though I do hope at least humans and either orc, troll or BE, as the four races mentioned above are my least favorites. >.>)

You said it yourself. Your dislike of a Tinker class is the fact that you dislike the races that make the most sense.

[Ielenia]

Your words. Not mine.

No. Your words. 100% your words.

You said it yourself. Your dislike of a Tinker class is the fact that you dislike the races that make the most sense.

You are making a very idiotic misrepresentation of my entire arguments. At no point I ever said I "dislike tinkers" because I don't like gnomes or goblins. Hell, I never even said that I dislike tinkers!