Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[DeltrusDisc]

Another Skylake-X blow, though still a "rumour" and also at the same time... not.

http://wccftech.com/intels-skylake-x...til-next-year/

That was quick. RIP.

[Fascinate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFzWRoVNnE

Linus gets to talk to all the vendors and insiders, sounds like skylake/kaby lake x is an absolute shit show. Wish he would have talked more on pricing, but i bet that video is coming.

[Gray_Matter]

Another Skylake-X blow, though still a "rumour" and also at the same time... not.

http://wccftech.com/intels-skylake-x...til-next-year/

The Intel HCC processors are starting to sound more and more like an MS-DOS 6 "announcement".

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFzWRoVNnE

Linus gets to talk to all the vendors and insiders, sounds like skylake/kaby lake x is an absolute shit show. Wish he would have talked more on pricing, but i bet that video is coming.

The 5th comment there is pretty funny "Intel's new low: DLC hardware packages". I think "absolute shit show" is a bit harsh. They have some nice features on the platform. It just looks like marketing/sales have gotten involved and messed things up. Also, bear in mind that the majority of his complaints are about the Kaby Lake X which doesn't make much sense. The Skylake X makes more sense.

[Fascinate]

The Intel HCC processors are starting to sound more and more like an MS-DOS 6 "announcement".

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The 5th comment there is pretty funny "Intel's new low: DLC hardware packages". I think "absolute shit show" is a bit harsh. They have some nice features on the platform. It just looks like marketing/sales have gotten involved and messed things up. Also, bear in mind that the majority of his complaints are about the Kaby Lake X which doesn't make much sense. The Skylake X makes more sense.

Its not only that kaby makes no sense, to my eyes the entire lineup makes no sense because of the pricing with ryzen existing. Like who are these products for? Who is going to pay MORE than double for the intel solution once you figure in the cost of the motherboards, just for a ~500mhz boost in core speeds? I honestly dont know what intel is doing with pricing, i really hope skylake x flops hard so prices come closer to what you can buy ryzen chips for.

[Evildeffy]

The Intel HCC processors are starting to sound more and more like an MS-DOS 6 "announcement".

Linus, whom we all know is normally giving Intel fellatio, said it perfectly fine.
Intel is doing this as a knee-jerk reaction to just have something to answer AMD.. which is fine in general.
But these prices and these cutdowns are a joke, if they remain as is and the rumours of AMD's pricing is correct it's going to be RIP Intel for sure.

The 5th comment there is pretty funny "Intel's new low: DLC hardware packages". I think "absolute shit show" is a bit harsh. They have some nice features on the platform. It just looks like marketing/sales have gotten involved and messed things up. Also, bear in mind that the majority of his complaints are about the Kaby Lake X which doesn't make much sense. The Skylake X makes more sense.

Ignoring Kaby Lake-X, which is a product that should not exist on the core count it is, but this is not the first time Intel tries to introduce hardware "DLC".

They tried it once before and got utterly roasted by everyone and their grandmothers.

https://www.engadget.com/2010/09/18/...can-already-d/

If only AMD could make nVidia panic this much, we'd all have a good competition and gear to go around.

[MonsieuRoberts]

It might be pointless to talk about at this point, but I'm still wracking my brain trying to figure out WHY Kaby Lake X exists. Was it also the meddling of Sales/Marketing, and if so...who was the target audience? WHO would ever buy these chips? What is appealing about a 100MHz boost over a 7700K and more expensive hardware? Who wants to buy a board they can't fully utilize and pay MORE for it?

I wonder why they exist, and what they're intended to compete with. They seem to have a lot of overlap with what Intel's already offering, why did they even bother trying to refresh top-end Kaby Lake? They don't seem to throw punches at Ryzen and like I said they're so similar to what Intel already has.

[MonsieuRoberts]

There are plenty of applications where more cores is a good thing. These chips have never been targeted at gamers.

I'm talking specifically about the 7640X & 7740X.

Unless they can overclock far beyond what the 7700K can manage I don't see why they exist.

[Denpepe]

It might be pointless to talk about at this point, but I'm still wracking my brain trying to figure out WHY Kaby Lake X exists. Was it also the meddling of Sales/Marketing, and if so...who was the target audience? WHO would ever buy these chips?

The kaby lake x chips are made for people who want an entry point in the platform, there will be at least another generation of CPU's compatible with the motherboards so you buy a quad core now and a 6 or more core then, or you buy a 2nd hand skylake x then when people dump theirs for the newer ones.

Does it make sence or will it work that's another matter.

[MonsieuRoberts]

Yep, they're not aimed at gamers. This platform is for workstations.

Seems like an awful waste when you can just grab an R7 anything, unless you intend on grabbing something beyond what the R7s or Threadrippers can offer further down the line.

I'd love to hear the thought process of someone intent on grabbing Kaby Lake X. When are they upgrading, what are they upgrading to, if they're dealing with heavily threaded workloads why didn't they go Ryzen at the beginning instead of starting with Kaby Lake X & transitioning into Skylake X, etc.

[Life-Binder]

Ive heard 7740X overclocks even better than 7700K

basically 5.0+ Ghz guaranteed on all/most chips without any delid (7700K cant do that)


yes its only ~200 Mhz more or so, but those that want the absolute highest clocks, period - 7740X would be their choice

Yep, they're not aimed at gamers. This platform is for workstations.

.. 7640X & 7740X are 4c/4t and 4c/8t CPUs, they are the opposite of workstation

[MonsieuRoberts]

Because Ryzen and AMD are only on the level of Haswell but with more cores? Sorry, basic logic...

But from what I've seen of benchmarking, even with the performance equivalent of my 4670K, they still do very very well in anything hyperthreaded. Better than the 7700K. is 100MHz on the 7780X going to change that? Probably not, unless they overclock insanely high, right?

Just seems like a product that doesn't fit anywhere to me. Who is on the path to double digit core counts that [i/needs[/i] to start with 4/4 or 4/8 that wouldn't just go Ryzen to begin with? Who is this mysterious user?

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Ive heard 7740X overclocks even better than 7700K

basically 5.0+ Ghz guaranteed on all/most chips without any delid (7700K cant do that)


yes its only ~200 Mhz more or so, but those that want the absolute highest clocks, period - 7740X would be their choice

There's the only reason I can think of for them to exist, if they really can hit 5.0+.

.. 7640X & 7740X are 4c/4t and 4c/8t CPUs, they are the opposite of workstation

My point exactly. Unless they can OC like your rumors say, they don't belong, and are not worth the premium vs a 7700K. You'd be better served by Z270 or AM4, UNLESS you need 5.0GHz+ in a 4/8 package.

And who really needs that few MHZ more at an 8 thread cap anyway? If someone out there does need 8 threads as fast as they can go, no more no less, please tell me about your specific needs & workload. I'm genuinely curious if Kaby Lake X is actually good for someone out there. :P

[MonsieuRoberts]

You basically said but it has more cores/threads... that doesn't negate the lagging IPC of ryzen. These processors have much better ipc. Which is incredibly important in all applications. With the same frequency and threads the better ipc means better performance. So, this mysterious user is anyone who wants a modern cpu instead of one that is a few generations behind.

You start with this and once you can afford to upgrade in a year or two go to more appropriate workstation cpu. It lets you do business until you can afford better equipment. Once you are established you upgrade to a better cpu without having to replace all the hardware.

I would just grab a 7700K if 8 cores is all I need though, or if I needed just a few speedy cores. It'll be replacing my 4670K soon enough, since like you said, Ryzen really doesn't have that horsepower for non-multithreaded apps. Such a shame too, the price is so right.

The upgrade path is totally valid I suppose, it just seems like very bad value to me. Save up a bit and skip the 4 core cap.

[Denpepe]

There are so many different CPU's out there that basically have no reason to exist other then for the company who sells them to make money.

For example the R7 from AMD are basically the same CPU and can more or less achiev the same speeds yet there are 3 models.

[drakensoul]

Giant goalpost, moved fifteen times.

Another chime-in just to say they're both right, and you continually move goal-posts and post unnecessarily disrespectful and condescending comments to try and hide the fact that you are wrong. You spend paragraph after paragraph inventing scenarios no one ever argued and twisting things around to point somewhere else.

And then you call other people's posts "incoherent blabbering," while simultaneously pointing at everyone else saying "none of you understand context!!" and repeatedly falling back on reductio ad absurdum to make false points.

Quite an involved and hyper-developed e-defense mechanism. Hope it's working for you boo.

[RogueDurr]

Linus, whom we all know is normally giving Intel fellatio, said it perfectly fine.
Intel is doing this as a knee-jerk reaction to just have something to answer AMD.. which is fine in general.
But these prices and these cutdowns are a joke, if they remain as is and the rumours of AMD's pricing is correct it's going to be RIP Intel for sure.

These statement are quite off the mark.

1. Intel can crush AMD in pricing anytime they want. Intel owns their Fab houses. AMD do not. Intel does not have the middle man Fab house that eats margins and raises pricing so the fab house can make a profit.

2. Then you ask, why doesn't Intel just do that now?The reason is, why cut margins by say oh 20% per processor when they will only lose say 10% market share? In Q1 2017, Ryzen only took back 2% market share. Thats nothing! Barely warrants any drastic changes, let alone any dramatic changes in pricing. They just need to need to make product offering and adjustments. AKA, add some more CPU SKU with more cores & and more threads for a market that doesn't buy a ton of them anyways (compared to consumer i5 & i3) market.

[DeltrusDisc]

They are entry level workstation cpus. For people who can't afford to spend thousands on a 36T CPU. The X platform is their workstation line.

Everything that I've been reading is saying Intel is trying to combine both gamer and workstation lineups. These are gaming CPUs, but basically giving people the option to easily upgrade to a more workstation-oriented CPU, if they ever wish.

These lower end CPUs basically will only give people 16 PCI-E lanes (gamer), 4 DIMMs (gamer), etc. Intel is effectively trying to make things more interchangeable. These two new low-end ones are basically, the 7600K and 7700K just soldered onto the 2066 socket instead of the 1151 or whatever, with a bit more TDP and not much else, besides a better chipset.

[Fascinate]

Everything that I've been reading is saying Intel is trying to combine both gamer and workstation lineups. These are gaming CPUs, but basically giving people the option to easily upgrade to a more workstation-oriented CPU, if they ever wish.

These lower end CPUs basically will only give people 16 PCI-E lanes (gamer), 4 DIMMs (gamer), etc. Intel is effectively trying to make things more interchangeable. These two new low-end ones are basically, the 7600K and 7700K just soldered onto the 2066 socket instead of the 1151 or whatever, with a bit more TDP and not much else, besides a better chipset.

No gamer is going to do that lol. These x299 boards are easily twice the price of z270 and that is just the starting point.

Everyone agrees kaby lake x is nonsensical, how about skylake x? If these pricing numbers are correct, how would you justify buying into this platform with ryzen existing for less than half the cost? Ok it has a bit higher IPC and can clock ~500mhz higher, are you willing to pay double for that and then another ~100 just for the privilege to use a motherboard with 8 dimm slots that you would likely never use?

AMD gets it, intel doesn't. I liked the idea of having a nice balanced PC with a bunch of cores that i can game on, not sure who intel is trying to sell x299 to but it sure aint me.

[Evildeffy]

Another chime-in just to say they're both right, and you continually move goal-posts and post unnecessarily disrespectful and condescending comments to try and hide the fact that you are wrong. You spend paragraph after paragraph inventing scenarios no one ever argued and twisting things around to point somewhere else.

Not to perpetuate the argument but if you're unable to read the 2nd line of page 14 and then reading the rest of the context then I have very little to tell you as you're not worth the effort.

It's not my fault neither you nor some others are able to comprehend basic principles of engineering.
It is however interesting how the same arguments are used to explain how the competition sucks though.

And then you call other people's posts "incoherent blabbering," while simultaneously pointing at everyone else saying "none of you understand context!!" and repeatedly falling back on reductio ad absurdum to make false points.

Quite an involved and hyper-developed e-defense mechanism. Hope it's working for you boo.

You may think anything you desire, if you believe that was a defence mechanism... well I won't stop you from thinking that.
I hope your inability to factually comprehend engineering and fanboyism works for you "boo".

[Life-Binder]

less than half the cost

stop lying already lol

X299 also has more lanes and quad channel memory compared to X370 .. besides the IPC and clocks advantage .. and support up to 18 cores while X370 supports up to 8 cores

its HEDT, ofc it will be more expensive than mainstream


if you want to see Ryzen get smashed in perf by something close to its price - wait Coffee in August



as for X399 - there have been rumors that those mobos will be even more expensive then X299 due to extra lanes, more pins on huge socket etc. which will also require extra PCB layers = more cost

[DeltrusDisc]

No gamer is going to do that lol. These x299 boards are easily twice the price of z270 and that is just the starting point.

Everyone agrees kaby lake x is nonsensical, how about skylake x? If these pricing numbers are correct, how would you justify buying into this platform with ryzen existing for less than half the cost? Ok it has a bit higher IPC and can clock ~500mhz higher, are you willing to pay double for that and then another ~100 just for the privilege to use a motherboard with 8 dimm slots that you would likely never use?

AMD gets it, intel doesn't. I liked the idea of having a nice balanced PC with a bunch of cores that i can game on, not sure who intel is trying to sell x299 to but it sure aint me.

Yes, no shit. Have you not seen all the people complaining on these forums? I never said I really agree with this move, I was simply trying to explain it.

X299, truly, is for people like me and other workstation users. It's great as a gaming station, it's even greater as a workstation, thus you combine them. If I can save time on the hundreds/thousands of large photographs I'm editing? You can bet your ass I will.

If I didn't game at all, I'd be eyeing an Intel Xeon + NVidia Quadro setup.