Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[Evildeffy]

I already said I'd be getting the 7900x. My cooler, according to Noctua's website, can handle a 140 watt TDP. Please continue telling me more about what I can and cannot do when you clearly can't read and don't have all the information.

You actually did not mention the 7900X in the quoted post so if it's in a prior post, my apologies didn't read.

However I didn't state your CPU cooler compatibility with the CPU but specifically motherboard and cooler compatibility because to support that high a TDP requires daughterboards with added VRM.

The X299 has 2 vertical daughterboards, limiting your cooler very likely due to their positioning (depending on if you have a tower cooler or not, I'm assuming you do), can even point these out for you if you so like.

Because I'm assuming you're intending to use a tower cooler because AFAIK Noctua does not recommend using their "flat" coolers with X99, let alone X299.

Clearly though I'm the one unable to read.

[Dimsumlol]

You actually did not mention the 7900X in the quoted post so if it's in a prior post, my apologies didn't read.

However I didn't state your CPU cooler compatibility with the CPU but specifically motherboard and cooler compatibility because to support that high a TDP requires daughterboards with added VRM.

The X299 has 2 vertical daughterboards, limiting your cooler very likely due to their positioning (depending on if you have a tower cooler or not, I'm assuming you do), can even point these out for you if you so like.

Because I'm assuming you're intending to use a tower cooler because AFAIK Noctua does not recommend using their "flat" coolers with X99, let alone X299.

Clearly though I'm the one unable to read.

It's a NHC14 top down cooler with two fans. Worst case it doesn't cool sufficiently and I use the x52 in my closet that I ordered for a backup. The pcie daughter board on the motherboard can potentially be removed and that would allow for the cooler to be installed. They have two additional m.2 on the back and that's where my 960 pro would go. I've already thought all of this through.

[Evildeffy]

It's a NHC14 top down cooler with two fans. Worst case it doesn't cool sufficiently and I use the x52 in my closet that I ordered for a backup. The pcie daughter board on the motherboard can potentially be removed and that would allow for the cooler to be installed. They have two additional m.2 on the back and that's where my 960 pro would go. I've already thought all of this through.

NH-C14 is a big mother... I think you're going to run into issues mounting that on the ASRock X299 ITX board due to daughterboard locations as well as RAM locations.

The X52 would (should) work, may have to get a mounting bracket if it's not the same for LGA2011-v3 as it is for LGA2066.

I wouldn't recommend overclocking this thing on an ITX board, the VRM/MOSFETs will be scorching.

What case?

[Dimsumlol]

NH-C14 is a big mother... I think you're going to run into issues mounting that on the ASRock X299 ITX board due to daughterboard locations as well as RAM locations.

The X52 would (should) work, may have to get a mounting bracket if it's not the same for LGA2011-v3 as it is for LGA2066.

I wouldn't recommend overclocking this thing on an ITX board, the VRM/MOSFETs will be scorching.

What case?

Case is an ncase m1. I saw the daughterboard for the m.2 and instantly figured it would conflict with the heatpipes
but thought, okay, it looks like it's in a sodimm slot. What if I can just...take it out? At that point I would be clear to have the cooler in the case in theory.

I also plan on delidding. I know that doesn't help with the power delivery, but I'm looking into getting a binned chip so I could potentially undervolt it to stay at reasonable temps. I know it's a tall order, especially for the cooler and the tight case, but man I'm really trying to cram it all in there. I'd stay at stock clocks all day. I would literally have zero need to overclock it whatsoever, and like you said, i wouldn't be able to anyway.

[Evildeffy]

Case is an ncase m1.

My 1 and only regret in the computer industry... I sold off 2 original NCase M1 v1 with serial numbers.
I needed the money as my unemployment took a toll... I wish I had at least the Silver one I had back
It physically hurt me having to sell those.

I tip my hat to you for actually building in it and using it

I saw the daughterboard for the m.2 and instantly figured it would conflict with the heatpipes, but thought, okay, it looks like it's in a sodimm slot. What if I can just...take it out? At that point I would be clear to have the cooler in the case in theory.

That depends on if the power delivery daughterboard won't interfere with the other side because of fan placement.
Same goes for the RAM sockets (SO-DIMM DDR4 btw!) if the bottom fan doesn't interfere with either of the 2 you're in the clear.
But you're still powering 10 cores with that type of cooler, it's going to be ugly.

I also plan on delidding. I know that doesn't help with the power delivery, but I'm looking into getting a binned chip so I could potentially undervolt it to stay at reasonable temps. I know it's a tall order, especially for the cooler and the tight case, but man I'm really trying to cram it all in there. I'd stay at stock clocks all day. I would literally have zero need to overclock it whatsoever, and like you said, i wouldn't be able to anyway.

Be aware that the 10 core CPU is 1000 USD with a normal 5 year warranty.
I get the temperature difference for your SPECIFIC case is worth it but if the memory channels break (as it can happen) you'll be proper fucked.

The NCase M1 is 1 of my favourite cases of all time in terms of simple awesome-ness but it's also a hot potato comparatively.
Combining that with a TIM-based HEDT CPU @ 10 Cores... it's going to be VERY toasty.
And if the CPU does have a failure and it being delidded... it's not going to be pretty for you.

What is it you have now? And what is it you do?

[Dimsumlol]

My 1 and only regret in the computer industry... I sold off 2 original NCase M1 v1 with serial numbers.
I needed the money as my unemployment took a toll... I wish I had at least the Silver one I had back
It physically hurt me having to sell those.

I tip my hat to you for actually building in it and using it

That depends on if the power delivery daughterboard won't interfere with the other side because of fan placement.
Same goes for the RAM sockets (SO-DIMM DDR4 btw!) if the bottom fan doesn't interfere with either of the 2 you're in the clear.
But you're still powering 10 cores with that type of cooler, it's going to be ugly.


Be aware that the 10 core CPU is 1000 USD with a normal 5 year warranty.
I get the temperature difference for your SPECIFIC case is worth it but if the memory channels break (as it can happen) you'll be proper fucked.

The NCase M1 is 1 of my favourite cases of all time in terms of simple awesome-ness but it's also a hot potato comparatively.
Combining that with a TIM-based HEDT CPU @ 10 Cores... it's going to be VERY toasty.
And if the CPU does have a failure and it being delidded... it's not going to be pretty for you.

What is it you have now? And what is it you do?

I'll be purchasing the 10 core from silicon lottery if he delids and bins them so I don't have to worry about breaking it. I watched the video of de8aur delidding the 7900x and was like, nope!

Right now I'm using a delidded 4790k - 4.7ghz @ 1.3v. I have managed to run cinebench at 5ghz and got a 997 score but it's not stable. Not enough cooling. EVGA Z97 stinger, 16gb ddr3, 1080ti sc black, 1 tb 850 pro.

I am literally only doing this to say that I did it. I play league of legends and wow and every now and then use handbrake to encode some videos. Every now and then I'll edit a wow or league video. I already know the 4790k at 4.7ghz will perform better in wow. Don't care. I want a 10 core in my ncase and a 1080 ti and I want to travel with it. https://www.wallye.com/products/tactik-duffle - bag already ordered.

The biggest factor right now is the cooling. 140 watts is a LOT. I've had my nhc14 handle up to 175 watts on an overclock and it would reach like 90. That's at 1.4v and 50% fan speed. I really feel like if I get a good chip and delid it, and manage a decent undervolt, I can keep it under 65 .That's my goal. I've stared at the pictures of that asrock board for over a week now and judging by this picture https://www.pcper.com/image/view/824...n=node%2F67840 it doesn't look like anything is in that sodimm slot other than the m.2 slot. Meaning, if I can just remove it and the heatpipes don't hit the wifi card, it should fit...with the understanding Noctua uses a similar mounting bracket as 2011-3. Not a lot of space for the bracket between the socket and the sodimm slots, of which I made sure I ordered ddr4 XD.
Backup plan - x52. The asrock has a usb 2.0 header in the top right corner so we'd be good there.

And feelsbadman about your ncases. Truly. I wish you could have them back. It really is an amazing case. Best one I've ever owned.

[Evildeffy]

I'll be purchasing the 10 core from silicon lottery if he delids and bins them so I don't have to worry about breaking it. I watched the video of de8aur delidding the 7900x and was like, nope!

Right now I'm using a delidded 4790k - 4.7ghz @ 1.3v. I have managed to run cinebench at 5ghz and got a 997 score but it's not stable. Not enough cooling. EVGA Z97 stinger, 16gb ddr3, 1080ti sc black, 1 tb 850 pro.

I am literally only doing this to say that I did it. I play league of legends and wow and every now and then use handbrake to encode some videos. Every now and then I'll edit a wow or league video. I already know the 4790k at 4.7ghz will perform better in wow. Don't care. I want a 10 core in my ncase and a 1080 ti and I want to travel with it. https://www.wallye.com/products/tactik-duffle - bag already ordered.

The biggest factor right now is the cooling. 140 watts is a LOT. I've had my nhc14 handle up to 175 watts on an overclock and it would reach like 90. That's at 1.4v and 50% fan speed. I really feel like if I get a good chip and delid it, and manage a decent undervolt, I can keep it under 65 .That's my goal. I've stared at the pictures of that asrock board for over a week now and judging by this picture https://www.pcper.com/image/view/824...n=node%2F67840 it doesn't look like anything is in that sodimm slot other than the m.2 slot. Meaning, if I can just remove it and the heatpipes don't hit the wifi card, it should fit...with the understanding Noctua uses a similar mounting bracket as 2011-3. Not a lot of space for the bracket between the socket and the sodimm slots, of which I made sure I ordered ddr4 XD.
Backup plan - x52. The asrock has a usb 2.0 header in the top right corner so we'd be good there.

And feelsbadman about your ncases. Truly. I wish you could have them back. It really is an amazing case. Best one I've ever owned.

Well once one sets his mind to something, I'd say go for it.

You've weighed the options and chosen to be splurge happy, I just hope it doesn't disappoint you.
Technically you could drop in a Ryzen 7 1800X as well, but I'm taking you just want 10C20T to show up in Windows, in which case you will need to wait about a month before X299 is out along with the CPUs.
Also who knows... ASRock may be stupid enough to build a ThreadRipper ITX mobo.. the X99 and X299 already make no sense, why stop there?

But I wasn't just referring to the M.2 SO-DIMM slot (probably called SO-DIMM.2 since ASRock is owned by ASUS), I was referring to the daughterboard on the right in that very picture you linked.
That's my concern for not fitting your air cooler as well as the SO-DIMM slots to the top and bottom of the socket as the NH-C14 is a fat bastard.

But considering you're already aware of the 4790K's heat generation and that the 10C will be CONSIDERABLY worse... probably smarter to just start off with the X52 rather than trying air first?

Also I'll happily take your 4790K and rest of your old kit for free when you upgrade!

[Dimsumlol]

Well once one sets his mind to something, I'd say go for it.

You've weighed the options and chosen to be splurge happy, I just hope it doesn't disappoint you.
Technically you could drop in a Ryzen 7 1800X as well, but I'm taking you just want 10C20T to show up in Windows, in which case you will need to wait about a month before X299 is out along with the CPUs.
Also who knows... ASRock may be stupid enough to build a ThreadRipper ITX mobo.. the X99 and X299 already make no sense, why stop there?

But I wasn't just referring to the M.2 SO-DIMM slot (probably called SO-DIMM.2 since ASRock is owned by ASUS), I was referring to the daughterboard on the right in that very picture you linked.
That's my concern for not fitting your air cooler as well as the SO-DIMM slots to the top and bottom of the socket as the NH-C14 is a fat bastard.

But considering you're already aware of the 4790K's heat generation and that the 10C will be CONSIDERABLY worse... probably smarter to just start off with the X52 rather than trying air first?

Also I'll happily take your 4790K and rest of your old kit for free when you upgrade!

Yeah I see the daughterboard on the right with the sata and usb3 connectors. Good news is, the way the NHC14 has to be mounted is with the brackets positions horizontally. The bracket would not be vertical running along side the so-dimm.2. Now the height of it might interfere with the sodimm ram slots. Not sure at this point.

I wonder how much more heat the 10 core will produce. 4 core vs 10 but 22nm vs 14. Doesn't the 14 produce less heat?

[Gray_Matter]

You start with this and once you can afford to upgrade in a year or two go to more appropriate workstation cpu. It lets you do business until you can afford better equipment. Once you are established you upgrade to a better cpu without having to replace all the hardware.

Businesses, which are the biggest purchases of HEDT CPU's, don't upgrade their CPU's. They buy new PC's when it's time to upgrade.

- - - Updated - - -

1. Intel can crush AMD in pricing anytime they want. Intel owns their Fab houses. AMD do not. Intel does not have the middle man Fab house that eats margins and raises pricing so the fab house can make a profit.

What if their yield is 20% and Ryzen is 80%? It's not just about owning the fabs.

- - - Updated - - -

We're talking about workstation tasks, not gaming. And, as I said before. If someone absolutely has to have a workstation now to begin making money and all they can afford is the 8C variant they get it and work longer hours until they can replace it with a higher core count CPU. I most assuredly wouldn't get a Ryzen for that. When ThreadRipper comes out we can compare it to the equivalent C/T Intel CPU. Until then the Intel CPUs are better than the Ryzens(overall) and have a better upgrade path.

It's cheaper for businesses to buy better hardware than for people to work longer hours. The extra $630 odd to move from Kaby X to the Skylake X 10 core wouldn't cost more than a week odd of overtime.

- - - Updated - - -

*sigh* This platform is for people who want a workstation that they can overclock. It's not for gamers and streamers.

HEDT users aren't likely to overclock their CPU's. In fact, they are very unlikely to do so. Overclocking is reserved almost exclusively for gamers and enthusiasts. The whole reason that Kaby X exists is to milk the businesses. The businesses that just tell IT to order the latest business PC for their sales clerk where they will probably only use the machine as a dumb terminal for a back end system. HEDT users normally run software that is core hungry. IPC is less important than with things like games. It has value but is much lower than other situations. In the old days, adding a second thread to your software would give a 80% increase in speed and a third would give another 60% boost. Things are much better designed these days and extra cores run at a much higher efficiency. So, a 16 core Threadripper will be faster than a 14 core Intel processor with up to 12.5% higher IPC. Not on all tasks but for the ones that count. It's close enough in speed that a lot of the customers will keep buying the 10+ core processors, even if the Threadripper is faster because they just buy Intel. There are going to be others that have second thoughts.

One thing that you should take into account with these HEDT processors is that their architecture won't scale as well as the Threadripper architecture. AMD hits their max IPC pretty early but they should be able to add more cores without impacting that by a huge amount.

- - - Updated - - -

First, I see someone asking when AMD stuff is "just 500mhz" slower than intel, wouldn't you buy AMD at half the price?

lol NO. If I'm gaming at 4.5ghz, I will not make my rig 4.0ghz to save money. To me, that's silly. I'm spending 800 dollars a year on a gpu(nvidia only) several hundred dollars on a Seasonic PSU and a really nice Asrock or Asus mobo, the best corsair or g.skill ram, and I'm going to use an AMD chip in it? Are you kidding me? I'm not building 10 rigs for other people, I'm building with cutting edge tech.

If I was building rigs for people that wouldn't notice the benefits of an Intel/Nvidia gsync rig, then I might as well buy the cheap stuff. When I'm building for myself, I buy quality, because I notice my clock speeds. I benchmark. I upgrade monitor and video card every year. I care a lot about the experience. I don't want good enough, I want the best.

I'm not biased. That's bullshit, you don't need to be biased when you have benchmarks. When Advanced Micro Devices can build a processor that is clearly faster per core than Intel, then I will buy their shit. You'll see i9 in my sig-rig pretty soon I suspect.

- - - Updated - - -

The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten. Save up and get something great that will last for years. ESPECIALLY in your CPU where tech progress is slow.

Speed doesn't equal quality. That said. It does sound like Coffee or Skylake X is processor for you. The highest IPC possible with cost being more of a secondary issue.

[moremana]

I found these vids kind of comical. But interesting at the same time.



And, Intels new slogan "Up to"



Cant wait for Coffee Lake in Q1, this release just boggles my mind.

[Life-Binder]

lol youtubers

[Evildeffy]

Yeah I see the daughterboard on the right with the sata and usb3 connectors. Good news is, the way the NHC14 has to be mounted is with the brackets positions horizontally. The bracket would not be vertical running along side the so-dimm.2. Now the height of it might interfere with the sodimm ram slots. Not sure at this point.

I wonder how much more heat the 10 core will produce. 4 core vs 10 but 22nm vs 14. Doesn't the 14 produce less heat?

Well you'd also be unable to utilize the USB3/SATA connectors for one because that WILL interfere with the NH-C14, it goes straight up and since there will be metal above it it'll likely not allow for a cable install.

So unless you intend to go SATA-less (I saw the Samsung SATA SSD in the previous picture of yours) you're going to have more issues than 1 with the NH-C14.

As far as heat goes... It's going to be rather bad, Broadwell-E is 14nm and soldered, Skylake-X will utilize the same 14nm lithography but will use TIM instead of solder.
Considering I'm well aware of the NCase's limitations and how it performs and how the board will be cooking..
Dropping in a 10C will be fun but it's going to be toasty to say the least, whilst it does have a larger surface area to dissipate heat ... that won't be enough.

You NEED to use the X52 combined with a binned 10C that has some serious undervoltage range along with delid, because otherwise I can't see it operating in the NCase M1 for very long due to the lack of active airflow in that case.

[Dimsumlol]

Well you'd also be unable to utilize the USB3/SATA connectors for one because that WILL interfere with the NH-C14, it goes straight up and since there will be metal above it it'll likely not allow for a cable install.

So unless you intend to go SATA-less (I saw the Samsung SATA SSD in the previous picture of yours) you're going to have more issues than 1 with the NH-C14.

As far as heat goes... It's going to be rather bad, Broadwell-E is 14nm and soldered, Skylake-X will utilize the same 14nm lithography but will use TIM instead of solder.
Considering I'm well aware of the NCase's limitations and how it performs and how the board will be cooking..
Dropping in a 10C will be fun but it's going to be toasty to say the least, whilst it does have a larger surface area to dissipate heat ... that won't be enough.

You NEED to use the X52 combined with a binned 10C that has some serious undervoltage range along with delid, because otherwise I can't see it operating in the NCase M1 for very long due to the lack of active airflow in that case.

Good catch on that usb3/sata connector. My only solution would be to hope that I can fit a 90 degree left angled sata connector, as well as a 90 degree usb 3 20 pin connector (without hitting the power supply).

I currently have four NF F12 2k rpm fans in there, all intakes, and everything is at a reasonable temperature even with an overclock. I'm crossing my fingers for a god like chip that will undervolt like a sunvabitch.

And that's assuming the air cooler even fits. Right now there's a 1mm gap between the fan and the heatsink. If the motherboard socket or the ihs is taller, or any combination of that by over 1mm then it's out. But that's the beauty of this case really. After five revisions, people had figured out exactly what would fit and what wouldn't. It's like a whole new mystery at this point. Can you fit a 10 core proc in an ncase and have it air cooled? Nobody knows! I'll be one of the first to find out though! Thanks for the help. I'll have the 90 degree connectors on-hand and hope they fit!

- - - Updated - - -

I found these vids kind of comical. But interesting at the same time.



And, Intels new slogan "Up to"



Cant wait for Coffee Lake in Q1, this release just boggles my mind.

Linus has some balls, I'll tell you that. I mean...he would literally be stocking shelves at NCIX if it wasn't for youtube, and now suddenly he's giving marketing advice to Intel. Like, he actually thinks he knows better than Intel...who had over 59 BILLION in revenue last year. How full of yourself do you need to be to make a video like that? Directly from the video "Here's some corporate strategy advice free of charge intel..." Nah fam, they good. Linus doesn't need to know why they're doing what they're doing so he's going to cry about it. Now the FOTM is the copy linus and be like "it's a knee jerk reaction why are you doing this intel I DUNT UNDERSTANND."

Here's what we know so far -
Old intel shit is still faster than new AMD shit.
AMD is coming out with new shit to try to catch up with Intel.
Intel: Hold my beer.

[Vash The Stampede]

Stop derailing the thread, if you want to discuss AMD there is a ryzen thread.

Most people believe skylake-X and Coffee Lake are the result of AMD's RyZen CPUs. So it is very relevant to discuss AMD here. It looks like a knee jerk reaction from Intel since they haven't had any real competition for 7-10 years? Doesn't look like Intel has learned their lesson since the pricing of these new CPUs look awfully overpriced. AMD's Ryzen Threadripper looks to take away even more thunder from Intel.

Until there's benchmarks there's nothing much to say.

[Evildeffy]

Good catch on that usb3/sata connector. My only solution would be to hope that I can fit a 90 degree left angled sata connector, as well as a 90 degree usb 3 20 pin connector (without hitting the power supply).

I currently have four NF F12 2k rpm fans in there, all intakes, and everything is at a reasonable temperature even with an overclock. I'm crossing my fingers for a god like chip that will undervolt like a sunvabitch.

And that's assuming the air cooler even fits. Right now there's a 1mm gap between the fan and the heatsink. If the motherboard socket or the ihs is taller, or any combination of that by over 1mm then it's out. But that's the beauty of this case really. After five revisions, people had figured out exactly what would fit and what wouldn't. It's like a whole new mystery at this point. Can you fit a 10 core proc in an ncase and have it air cooled? Nobody knows! I'll be one of the first to find out though! Thanks for the help. I'll have the 90 degree connectors on-hand and hope they fit!

Good luck, you'll need it, I'd be interested to see that too, make sure to post that on the gaming rig section.

Here's what we know so far -
Old intel shit is still faster than new AMD shit.
AMD is coming out with new shit to try to catch up with Intel.
Intel: Hold my beer.

In gaming... yes Intel is still holding the edge counting the 7700K and G4560.
In pretty much everything else though... not so much, in fact they're behind so far.

Which was the point of his video, Intel clearly no longer has a lead and reacts to it by introducing hardware which is still at least 6 - 9 months off.
Just to react to AMD's Ryzen and ThreadRipper, now honestly this is a smack Intel needed to get it's ass back on development with actual competition.

Thing is though that Linus isn't alone in his thought process, almost all tech journalists are.
The thing which makes it more of a hard point with Linus is that he was so into Intel and now he's berating them.
As much as some of his videos drive me insane.. the point is made and it's echoed across the industry.

[Dimsumlol]

Being overpriced is relative. Some people pay more to own a luxury car. Some people don't care what kind of car they drive and just want it to go from a to b. In this case, we generally have a bunch of people bitching about something that has nothing to do with them. They're not going to get Skylake X or threadripper. Doesn't affect them whatsoever. What I've heard so far is a bunch of kids going into a bently dealership crying because they can only afford a honda.

Don't like intel pricing? Don't buy it. No one ever forced anyone to. Intel doesn't need to learn a lesson. People are quick to stand behind AMD because they're so cheap and appeal to the masses. Where were they for five years? Bulldozer and Piledriver flopped hard and they still charged way too much up to and including this year for five year old hardware. But that's okay because it's AMD. That's not a shady business practice at all. Let's accost the company that actually provided you with upgrades literally year over year because kids couldn't get their parents to buy them i7's.

[Evildeffy]

Most people believe skylake-X and Coffee Lake are the result of AMD's RyZen CPUs. So it is very relevant to discuss AMD here. It looks like a knee jerk reaction from Intel since they haven't had any real competition for 7-10 years? Doesn't look like Intel has learned their lesson since the pricing of these new CPUs look awfully overpriced. AMD's Ryzen Threadripper looks to take away even more thunder from Intel.

Until there's benchmarks there's nothing much to say.

Skylake-X above 10C is the result of AMD as it's tapping into the HCC Xeon dies to make that happen.
A surprise for many people, including mobo manufacturers.

Coffee Lake was already coming with the specs, they simply moved up the delivery date by 3 Quarters as remember about 1 month before Ryzen launch it was 1H 2018, now it's Q3 2017... that's not a coincidence.

[Dimsumlol]

Good luck, you'll need it, I'd be interested to see that too, make sure to post that on the gaming rig section.


In gaming... yes Intel is still holding the edge counting the 7700K and G4560.
In pretty much everything else though... not so much, in fact they're behind so far.

Which was the point of his video, Intel clearly no longer has a lead and reacts to it by introducing hardware which is still at least 6 - 9 months off.
Just to react to AMD's Ryzen and ThreadRipper, now honestly this is a smack Intel needed to get it's ass back on development with actual competition.

Thing is though that Linus isn't alone in his thought process, almost all tech journalists are.
The thing which makes it more of a hard point with Linus is that he was so into Intel and now he's berating them.
As much as some of his videos drive me insane.. the point is made and it's echoed across the industry.

As of right now, the top of the line intel chip still beats the top of the line AMD chip in games and everything else, unless you can show me benchmarks that prove otherwise.

[mrgreenthump]

As of right now, the top of the line intel chip still beats the top of the line AMD chip in games and everything else, unless you can show me benchmarks that prove otherwise.

Then again AMD has never really been about being the absolute best performance, rather achieving to be best in price/performance, which the Zen platform is doing fairly good job in.

[Afrospinach]

Linus has some balls, I'll tell you that. I mean...he would literally be stocking shelves at NCIX if it wasn't for youtube, and now suddenly he's giving marketing advice to Intel.

I wonder if this shotgun blast of products is actually intel feeling out the market again. Everyone always knows what the market wants - after the fact. How did we arrive at the quad core standard and all the current strata? It wasn't exactly a straight line.