Tinkers In Our Future?

[Zenny]

Sure, a gadget/technology class makes sense, just change the name, Tinker sounds a bit silly.

[Teriz]

So the conclusion is :

Lore wise : If they introduce Tinker they have to create lore that somehow define the difference between Tinker and Engineer. Because currently there is not enough data to make any conclusion on their difference/similarities.

Gameplay wise : If they introduce Tinker as a class they have to make it so that it plays totally differently than Engineers. considering they did so with DH from Demo lock and they've been creating unique playstyle with each new class i can say it's most likely they would make Tinker unique too, or change Engineers to they don't interfere with Tinker anymore.

Lore-wise Blizzard would just add lore to bring the class into the game like they would any other new class.

Gameplay-wise Engineering is a profession, not a class so there's no need to touch Engineering at all. They're different on a fundamental level, and both can exist together.

[Kagdar]

Lore-wise Blizzard would just add lore to bring the class into the game like they would any other new class.

Gameplay-wise Engineering is a profession, not a class so there's no need to touch Engineering at all. They're different on a fundamental level, and both can exist together.

I agree on both of those things. I know they would create lore to it, wouldn't really be difficult there is not much lore already so adding is easy.

And sure Engineer is a profession and is in no way a full class. It serve more of a tech addition to help you have fun in the world.
Tinker would be a full fledged class with all sorts of abilities, resource and serve primarily as damage dealer with potential for tank and even healing.

I'm just stating the conclusion of a 47 page debate between parties that on both sides try and prove engineers are the same/totally different than tinker. Blizz would just have to make it so and both sides would be happy and stop arguing on something we all can agree on.

[Herogamer555]

I don't want any new classes. I want more work to be done on the ones we have.

[-Joker-]

No there are lots of us that want lore restrictions on classes.... if they allowed what you said there i'd likely go be an LFR hero and play just enough for that. I don't want any race playing any class with anyone.

That's a shame to have such a limited view and scope. If comic books thought that way, there'd never be cross-overs and What Ifs. If a Gnome can run a circus with an Ogre bodyguard, a Forsaken greeter, a Tauren Chef, a goblin flyer, a human strong woman, and a Horde band playing... nothing should stop something as basic as a defector's quest. For the same reason, nothing should stop Tinkers from becoming a class. Even Dark Rangers, and other NPC classes make sense as playable classes.

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Sure, a gadget/technology class makes sense, just change the name, Tinker sounds a bit silly.

We could call them Battlemechs if that changes the connotation and removes the Engineering stigma that some short-sighted folks like to stick with them.

[Oneirophobia]

They should just overhaul professions and allow Engineering to becoming Tinkering, have some interesting added combat flavor stuff and leave it there.

"Hey guise I'm a level 130 Tinker! ...No, I can't use that, I don't know anything about Engineering. I'm a Jewelcrafter" still sounds absurd to me.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

There is no valid lore reason why we can't have draenei rogues or gnome demon hunters either.

Aspiring demon hunters have to fight a demon in close combat with nothing but a small weapon. Gnomes wouldn't make it.

In WoW for in-game purposes gnomes dont have any physical limitation, but lorewise there's a reason why most gnomes are engineers or wizards.

[Thimagryn]

Aspiring demon hunters have to fight a demon in close combat with nothing but a small weapon. Gnomes wouldn't make it.

Until Blizzard introduces a gnome that does. Gnomes can't fight demons in close combat with a small weapon? Gnome Warriors and Gnome Rogues already do that. They can even control powerful demons. They're a crazy bunch who are willing to go that extra mile; we just haven't encountered the one who needed to make that kind of sacrifice for those particular reasons. Not to say that we will, but the possibility is there to explore.

In WoW for in-game purposes gnomes dont have any physical limitation, but lorewise there's a reason why most gnomes are engineers or wizards.

Most. With Warcraft, the exception can one day become the rule. Lorewise, there's a very good reason why we should never have playable Death Knights, but we did anyways because it's a freakin awesome idea.

What holds back the idea of a Gnome Demon Hunter is not lore. It's the lack of 'rule of cool' in this case, whether or not it is an interesting race/class combo to explore and get people playing. The Gnomes whimsical nature makes a lot of their race/class combos seem very ironic, like a Gnome Death Knight or Warrior. That's okay, but it also makes it less likely to become Demon Hunters for that reason, and not because there's something in lore that is suppressing their ability to achieve such titles. There's a lot of development back end that gets involved with every race/class combo too, like making all tier gear fit each race/gender combo, and getting custom horns and wings, animations, etc. The devs have to pick and choose the right combos that make sense and that people will play, like which new races will be Druids that will get their own forms. It's not a good thing to spend that time and resources on combos that people will really only play out of irony or for the small niche crowd who actually wants to play as a GDH.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Until Blizzard introduces a gnome that does. Gnomes can't fight demons in close combat with a small weapon? Gnome Warriors and Gnome Rogues already do that. They can even control powerful demons. They're a crazy bunch who are willing to go that extra mile; we just haven't encountered the one who needed to make that kind of sacrifice for those particular reasons. Not to say that we will, but the possibility is there to explore.

You ask for a lore reason as to why gnomes can't be DHs and i provided that reason. Now you are trying to counter it with an in-game argument. Gnome warriors don't exist lorewise, to the extent they do in game. There is not a single gnome warrior outside of their own gnome v gnome struggle. A gnome probably can't fight a dog, let alone a demon.

[rarhyx]

"Hey guise I'm a level 130 Tinker! ...No, I can't use that, I don't know anything about Engineering. I'm a Jewelcrafter" still sounds absurd to me.

never thought of that... that makes a lot of sense ôO

[Teriz]

They should just overhaul professions and allow Engineering to becoming Tinkering, have some interesting added combat flavor stuff and leave it there.

"Hey guise I'm a level 130 Tinker! ...No, I can't use that, I don't know anything about Engineering. I'm a Jewelcrafter" still sounds absurd to me.

No different than being an all powerful Mage and being unable to disenchant a glove or a rusty sword. Lore-wise you could probably do it. Gameplay-wise, that barrier is in place to keep you playing.

[-Joker-]

You ask for a lore reason as to why gnomes can't be DHs and i provided that reason. Now you are trying to counter it with an in-game argument. Gnome warriors don't exist lorewise, to the extent they do in game. There is not a single gnome warrior outside of their own gnome v gnome struggle. A gnome probably can't fight a dog, let alone a demon.

The same could be said of goblins. Diminutive races seldom get the respect they deserve. I mained a Gnome DK from Wrath through WoD and was usually the top of the pack every time. Size means nothing. Then Legion decided to neuter my Blood Knight and sent me back to my Paladin and Rogue. Tinker would be the perfect chance to be a Gnome tank again.

[Thimagryn]

You ask for a lore reason as to why gnomes can't be DHs and i provided that reason. Now you are trying to counter it with an in-game argument. Gnome warriors don't exist lorewise, to the extent they do in game. There is not a single gnome warrior outside of their own gnome v gnome struggle. A gnome probably can't fight a dog, let alone a demon.

Except you didn't provide a reason why they can't, only why they currently aren't. Like I said many times, lore isn't there to prevent stuff, only to explain the existence of. Night Elf don't practice arcane magic, we have lore for that, yet the lore didn't stop us from having Night Elf Mages anyways. Your reasoning for no Gnome DH fits the same way, lore simply lacks explanation for any group of individuals who pursue that path.

And in context of my 'there's no lore reason why', I'm pointing out that no lore would prevent a playable class or race/class combo from existing. I'm not pointing out a general take-me-out-of-context 'there is no lore for X race-class combo' for no reason.

[Oneirophobia]

No different than being an all powerful Mage and being unable to disenchant a glove or a rusty sword. Lore-wise you could probably do it. Gameplay-wise, that barrier is in place to keep you playing.

The difference is enchanting and what mages do could be different kinds of magic, engineering and tinkering are literally synonyms.

Mages can't use shadow magic, or necromancy, or fel magic. I'm not sure what the reasoning would be for a paragon of Tinkering not being able to use a pair of engineering goggles.

[Teriz]

The difference is enchanting and what mages do could be different kinds of magic, engineering and tinkering are literally synonyms.

Mages can't use shadow magic, or necromancy, or fel magic. I'm not sure what the reasoning would be for a paragon of Tinkering not being able to use a pair of engineering goggles.

Enchanting is a branch of Arcane magic. Mages are supposed to be masters of Arcane magic via lore.

[Deleted]

The difference is enchanting and what mages do could be different kinds of magic, engineering and tinkering are literally synonyms.

Mages can't use shadow magic, or necromancy, or fel magic. I'm not sure what the reasoning would be for a paragon of Tinkering not being able to use a pair of engineering goggles.

Engineering and tinkering aren't the same thing.

One is to plan and build and the other is to tune and modify.

From a quick google:

tinker/ˈtɪŋkə/
noun
(especially in former times) a person who makes a living by travelling from place to place mending pans and other metal utensils.
a mischievous child.
an act of attempting to repair something.
verb
attempt to repair or improve something in a casual or desultory way.

engineering/ɛndʒɪˈnɪərɪŋ/
noun
the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures.
the action of working artfully to bring something about.


In short, one is the builder and the other is the mechanic.

[Kiradyn]

Engineering and tinkering aren't the same thing.

One is to plan and build and the other is to tune and modify.

From a quick google:

tinker/ˈtɪŋkə/
noun
(especially in former times) a person who makes a living by travelling from place to place mending pans and other metal utensils.
a mischievous child.
an act of attempting to repair something.
verb
attempt to repair or improve something in a casual or desultory way.

engineering/ɛndʒɪˈnɪərɪŋ/
noun
the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures.
the action of working artfully to bring something about.


In short, one is the builder and the other is the mechanic.

Honestly the class probably wouldn't be called a Tinker. Probably more like to be called a Mechanic or Technician.

I'd love it if they used Siegecrafter or Mekkgineer.

[Ielenia]

Enchanting is a branch of Arcane magic. Mages are supposed to be masters of Arcane magic via lore.

There are eight schools of magic, and enchanting is but one. Also, from The Schools of Arcane Magic - Introduction book:"Each of these categories is known as a school of magic, for they are often learned separately and mages frequently choose to specialize in one type or another."

As for your claim that mages are supposed to be "masters of arcane magic" via lore... can I have a quote on that, please? Because I never seen or heard anything of the sort. I know they strive to be masters of the arcane, but that doesn't mean they all are.

[Teriz]

There are eight schools of magic, and enchanting is but one. Also, from The Schools of Arcane Magic - Introductionhttp://www.wowhead.com/object=192708 book:"Each of these categories is known as a school of magic, for they are often learned separately and mages frequently choose to specialize in one type or another."

As for your claim that mages are supposed to be "masters of arcane magic" via lore... can I have a quote on that, please? Because I never seen or heard anything of the sort. I know they strive to be masters of the arcane, but that doesn't mean they all are.

Yes, and if you actually read the "book" it says that Mages can both enchant and disenchant via their class abilities, since it says plainly that Enchanting allows you to enchant an object as well as a person. The Mage's armor and bomb spells count as enchantments, and Remove Curse and Spell Steal are examples of disenchantment.

We also shouldn't forget that Shaman are capable of enchanting their weaponry, and they have Purge, which also is a disenchant.

Does any of that effect Enchanting as a profession?

Nah.

[-Joker-]

Yes, and if you actually read the "book" it says that Mages can both enchant and disenchant via their class abilities, since it says plainly that Enchanting allows you to enchant an object as well as a person. The Mage's armor and bomb spells count as enchantments, and Remove Curse and Spell Steal are examples of disenchantment.

We also shouldn't forget that Shaman are capable of enchanting their weaponry, and they have Purge, which also is a disenchant.

Does any of that effect Enchanting as a profession?

Nah.

We have proof of it IN GAME. In the opening sequence of the DK class, you are asked to take a rusty sword from a stand, and manipulate it into a fierce weapon of destruction. Ultimately disenchanting the existing steel and reshaping it as a Runeblade. Anyone who thinks a mage, particularly a high powered one, is incapable of something similar, has zero imagination.

And you are correct... Runeforging interferes in no way with the Enchanting profession.