Which class should be next?

[Teriz]

No, they are not. Paladins are Paladins. They have very little in common with Warriors. Warriors donT' use Magic, be it Shadow, Light or Elemental. Mekkatorque etc are simply Warriors, or Rogues, or Hunters, who happen to be engineers.

No, warriors are warriors. Paladins are paladins, shamans are shamans, death knights are death knights, and tinkers are engineers.

(You)

Sorry friendo, that's the best I can do for you, because you and I both know you're wrong on that, and you're out of ability to defend your "class" idea.

From Blizzard:

Paladins:

Paragons of Justice
This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/classes/paladin

Shaman:

A totemic warrior who strikes foes with weapons imbued with elemental power.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/shaman/enhancement

In short, Shaman and Paladins are warriors, but every warrior isn't a Shaman or a Paladin.

Just like Tinkers are engineers, but every engineer isn't a Tinker.

Hope that helps.

[Ielenia]

From Blizzard:

The problem, Teriz, is that you don't seem to know the distinction between 'name' and 'noun'.

[oplawlz]

So a hunter, is what you're saying.

Sure, just like a demon hunter is a warlock.

[Teriz]

New classes don't need to be based on any one character. The Monk class proves that.

The Monk class is based on Chen Stormstout, whether you like to believe it or not.

Except those are but one ability in their respective classes' arsenal. Abilities that, thanks to the precedent set by Death Knights, could easily be renamed, even though they don't have to. Once again: just because those classes have one ability that deals with song, does not mean that the whole music theme belongs to them. Otherwise the tech theme belongs to the Hunter since he's using tech abilities. To support one but deny the other is what we call a double-standard, Teriz.

Again, the difference is that there will never be a scenario of Hunters riding mechs or using lasers and/or gravity weapons.

A 4th priest spec based entirely on Hymns, serenades, and Melodies that heal? Not too far fetched.

First off: no, they are not known as 'buff-bots'.

That's exactly what they're known as.

This is just you propagating a falsehood because saying said falsehood is true serves your narrative. As for how it would play, well, the bard could, for example, have different "stances" represented by different music instrument, each instrument giving a different passive to the Bard, maybe to nearby friendlies as well, and gives the guy access to different spells to sing. His melee spec would easily be an intellect-based, one-handed weapon style, with daggers, swords and maces (probably not axes), and using an off-hand item (but not shields) on the left hand, and using a few songs for some support like a stun, or CC.

You do understand that a class needs more than an aura and auto-attack right? What would be the abilities of the melee spec? Would it steal shouts from the Warrior class? I mean it's already stealing auras from Paladins, why not keep the fun going?

The point is the same: how come one spell denies an entire class design, when we have two classes sharing an entire theme (holy healing) yet both co-exist with no problems? I don't think I've ever seen, in-game or in forums, someone say "we got a holy paladin, we don't need a holy priest" or vice-versa.

Because Holy has been established via multiple games as a broad magic school, giving plenty of room for Paladins and Priests to exist.

Music isn't even established as a separate school of magic within WoW.

Oh, so now it's ok to base classes from RPG tropes, and not off characters in the game?

I've always stated that WoW uses both, unless its something like Demon Hunters.

Only you. You need to stop propagating that falsehood, especially when it's been shown countless times how the bard can easily fit within WoW's class system.

Stealing auras from Paladins and healing spells from Priests isn't showing how this class can "easily" fit in WoW's class system.

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The problem, Teriz, is that you don't seem to know the distinction between 'name' and 'noun'.

More like you don't seem to realize that there's different types of warriors in lore.

Just like there's different types of engineers.

[Ielenia]

The Monk class is based on Chen Stormstout, whether you like to believe it or not.

No, it was not. Because the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster was never a monk to begin with. It got the WC3 PB added later as a small part of it and to give familiarity to the expansion's setting.

Again, the difference is that there will never be a scenario of Hunters riding mechs or using lasers and/or gravity weapons.

A 4th priest spec based entirely on Hymns, serenades, and Melodies that heal? Not too far fetched.

I'll say that it is just as far-fetched. So much so there isn't a single priest/cleric in the gaming world that relies solely on singing and music.

That's exactly what they're known as.

No. That's how you insist on falsely claiming they are. I mean, go read the Fantasy Character Classes Tropes definition of the bard. The only one that keeps insisting on that nonsensical and debunked idea, and the only reason you insist on it is because it suits your narrative.

You do understand that a class needs more than an aura and auto-attack right? What would be the abilities of the melee spec? Would it steal shouts from the Warrior class? I mean it's already stealing auras from Paladins, why not keep the fun going?

"Stealing"? Did the monk steal the paladin's aura? Because the monk does have an aura. Also, DKs also have an aura. Did it affect the Paladin any? No, neither affected the paladin in any way. And I don't think I ever claimed the class would have 'just auto-attack and an aura'. That's just you being dishonest, unsurprisingly.

Because Holy has been established via multiple games as a broad magic school, giving plenty of room for Paladins and Priests to exist.

... What? "Broad"? In what sense? When was it established? Because, as far as I can tell, 'holy' is the most restricted type of magic there is.

Music isn't even established as a separate school of magic within WoW.

Luckily, I'm not claiming it is.

Stealing auras...

No one is "stealing" anything.

Honestly, Teriz, you're showing yourself to be one of the most dishonest people, if not the most dishonest person, there is to argue against. Your arguments are full of obvious double-standards, chock-full of blatant dishonesty and intentional misrepresentations.

Want to have the last word? Fine, have at it. But I'm done conversing with you until I see you've stopped with you've decided to finally leave dishonesty behind.

[Sukhoi]

Mods there are like 4 tinker threads going right now??? Hopefully next class will either never enter the game because of balancing nightmares. Personally, i'm hoping that if there is a next class, it's something dragon related. It could be pretty cool, a spec based on each dragon type. Black dragon could tank, but idk if we need another tank class added after the last three being able to. Green could be based on dot magic, bronze could heal with time magic, or red could heal. Blue could be a ranged spec, or even a melee spellblade type class. Makes way more sense to add this then a rehashed profession as a class.

[Teriz]

No, it was not. Because the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster was never a monk to begin with. It got the WC3 PB added later as a small part of it and to give familiarity to the expansion's setting.

Like I said, if you choose to ignore facts, that's your business.

I'll say that it is just as far-fetched. So much so there isn't a single priest/cleric in the gaming world that relies solely on singing and music.

Given that priests have hymns, prayers, and words, you really think it's far-fetched for them to have a spec based entirely magical voice power?

No. That's how you insist on falsely claiming they are. I mean, go read the Fantasy Character Classes Tropes definition of the bard. The only one that keeps insisting on that nonsensical and debunked idea, and the only reason you insist on it is because it suits your narrative.

Really? Bards in LotRO, RO, FFXI, FFXIV, and several Korean MMOs all have Bards as buff-bots. Silly to say I'm the only one who views them that way.

"Stealing"? Did the monk steal the paladin's aura? Because the monk does have an aura. Also, DKs also have an aura. Did it affect the Paladin any? No, neither affected the paladin in any way. And I don't think I ever claimed the class would have 'just auto-attack and an aura'. That's just you being dishonest, unsurprisingly.

You were stating that the aura would be a core mechanic of the class.

.. What? "Broad"? In what sense? When was it established? Because, as far as I can tell, 'holy' is the most restricted type of magic there is.

Holy is it's own school of magic, just like Shadow and Nature magic stretches across multiple classes, because they're entire schools of magic.

Luckily, I'm not claiming it is.

It would need to be to base an entire class on it.

[Ielenia]

Just to clear some "misconceptions" that a very dishonest person said:

You were stating that the aura would be a core mechanic of the class.

I wasn't. I just stated that it could be one of its abilities.

It would need to be to base an entire class on it.

The class would be based around the bard RPG trope, not "just around music/song".

[TheRightWay]

A new race(s) is probably coming in 8.0 but I would like to see a bard in the future.

[Nurvus]

Necromancer, for me. Should've been here long ago.
Doesn't even need an introduction.

Bones, Shadow, (proper) Curses, Skeletons (more bones).

Oh and just like Death Coil from Warlocks became Mortal Coil so that DKs got the Death Coil, Bone Shield should also be named something else so that Necromancers get the Bone Shield,

[Florida Man]

Necromancer, for me. Should've been here long ago.
Doesn't even need an introduction.

Bones, Shadow, (proper) Curses, Skeletons (more bones).

Oh and just like Death Coil from Warlocks became Mortal Coil so that DKs got the Death Coil, Bone Shield should also be named something else so that Necromancers get the Bone Shield,

Your signature has been the bane of my forum existence since 1997. Thank you for that "Omg I know right?!" laugh.

[Ravingmad]

Chrono/Time Lord (Chromie-ish, using Holy/Arcane magic) or Rune Master (Like the Vykruls, being a melee/ranged hybrid, like a Magic oriented Monk). I liked those idea.
Raid buff from other classes is pretty much dead, so I dont know what a bard would do there, being usually a support class. And it doesnt fit the lore at all, as theres none.

The Tinker... It would be a great class, but we have enough tank and too much melee, we need something more Ranged as a next class and Tinker cannot be just ranged. But I'd love to fight in a Mech, throw some rocket volley and destroy everything with a Rocket Launcher. But theres other game for that. But a Steam/rage system (Like a reverse rage), where all abilities are available, but the more powerful the more steam it cost, and when reaching the limit you get a small debuff as a penalty. Being able to well manage your spells could be interesting. Like a bursting spell would be that you have no Steam generated, you have "cooling system" CDs or abilities to reduce your steam so you can continue your dps. Talents that allows you to throw steam around you (small AoE dps and reduce Steam overtime), Steam Cannon that allows you to focus your Steam into a burning shot (Single Target)... anyways, ideas are endless.

SpellBreaker could be a nice class, but I feel as most class already have some of their abilities. And with the CC pruning, I dont think it would fit anymore.

[Teriz]

Necromancer, for me. Should've been here long ago.
Doesn't even need an introduction.

Bones, Shadow, (proper) Curses, Skeletons (more bones).

Oh and just like Death Coil from Warlocks became Mortal Coil so that DKs got the Death Coil, Bone Shield should also be named something else so that Necromancers get the Bone Shield,

You can't create a Necromancer class without significantly gutting the DK class.

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Chrono/Time Lord (Chromie-ish, using Holy/Arcane magic) or Rune Master (Like the Vykruls, being a melee/ranged hybrid, like a Magic oriented Monk). I liked those idea.
Raid buff from other classes is pretty much dead, so I dont know what a bard would do there, being usually a support class. And it doesnt fit the lore at all, as theres none.

The Tinker... It would be a great class, but we have enough tank and too much melee, we need something more Ranged as a next class and Tinker cannot be just ranged. But I'd love to fight in a Mech, throw some rocket volley and destroy everything with a Rocket Launcher. But theres other game for that. But a Steam/rage system (Like a reverse rage), where all abilities are available, but the more powerful the more steam it cost, and when reaching the limit you get a small debuff as a penalty. Being able to well manage your spells could be interesting. Like a bursting spell would be that you have no Steam generated, you have "cooling system" CDs or abilities to reduce your steam so you can continue your dps. Talents that allows you to throw steam around you (small AoE dps and reduce Steam overtime), Steam Cannon that allows you to focus your Steam into a burning shot (Single Target)... anyways, ideas are endless.

SpellBreaker could be a nice class, but I feel as most class already have some of their abilities. And with the CC pruning, I dont think it would fit anymore.

The reason they made one of the Hunter specs melee is because it's three physical ranged specs played so similar to each other. I think we got another physical ranged class coming, but it's going to play nothing like the current Hunter class.

Tinker can pull off a physical ranged spec via turrets. Anything else? Good luck.

[Nurvus]

You can't create a Necromancer class without significantly gutting the DK class.

Actually yes you can.

I made a suggestion for a Necromancer before DK was even announced, and it was very different in playstyle - and still would be today.

In my suggestion, Necromancer minions would "occupy" a certain amount of your power, and you could summon whatever combination you want - many small minions, a big minion, etc.
The more power you "occupy" with minions, the less damage you are capable of dealing directly.

Also, I suggested Necromancer's Bone spells dealt physical damage with some degree of armor penetration.

I also suggested Necromancer brought something fairly unique to the table (not anymore) - destructible CC (Bone Prison, Bone Wall, etc).
After various expansions, it's no longer unique (example: Void Tendrils), but still fairly underused.

Spec 1 = Skeletal Minionmancer
Spec 2 = Bone Spellcaster
Spec 3 = Curses + Shadow/Ghost Minions
One of these specs (or a 4th) could be the 1st spellcaster Tank, focusing a lot on Bone armor/shield/etc.

[Teriz]

Actually yes you can.

I made a suggestion for a Necromancer before DK was even announced, and it was very different in playstyle - and still would be today.

In my suggestion, Necromancer minions would "occupy" a certain amount of your power, and you could summon whatever combination you want - many small minions, a big minion, etc.
The more power you "occupy" with minions, the less damage you are capable of dealing directly.

Also, I suggested Necromancer's Bone spells dealt physical damage with some degree of armor penetration.

I also suggested Necromancer brought something fairly unique to the table (not anymore) - destructible CC (Bone Prison, Bone Wall, etc).
After various expansions, it's no longer unique (example: Void Tendrils), but still fairly underused.

Spec 1 = Skeletal Minionmancer
Spec 2 = Bone Spellcaster
Spec 3 = Curses + Shadow/Ghost Minions
One of these specs (or a 4th) could be the 1st spellcaster Tank, focusing a lot on Bone armor/shield/etc.

DKs can already summon a ghoul, a giest, or an Abomination. You can summon two of them if you talent into it. Additionally DKs have Army of the Dead, which allows them to summon several minions at once. Not to mention they can summon a Gargoyle. Via the undead artifact you can summon ghouls via Apocalypse, and a super-Zombie via the Shambler. Blood DKs can summon Bloodworms.

In terms of "Bone" attacks, DKs have Corpse Explosion, Bone Shield, Bonestorm, and Marrowrend.

Necromancers are also known as spreaders of plague. DKs also happen to have a wide variety of diseases and plagues at their disposal.

In short, what is the Necromancer bringing to the table that we aren't getting via the DK? I mean, the DK is pretty much a Necromancer in plate, and has a LOT of ranged spells at its disposal that don't have cast times.

[Nurvus]

In short, what is the Necromancer bringing to the table that we aren't getting via the DK?

Close to what Priests bring to the table that we aren't getting via the Paladin.

Warlocks were stepping on Death Knight toes.
When Death Knight got released, Warlocks had their Death Coil renamed Mortal Coil.

Warlocks were stepping on Demon Hunter toes too.
When Demon Hunter got released, Warlocks lost Metamorphosis, etc.

Likewise, DK may be stepping on Necromancer toes.
Some DK abilities may be better represented in some other way.
In particular, bone-flavored abilities might be replaced with something else for DKs.

[-Joker-]

More options doesn't equate to more people playing as them.

I just figured if it was good for the transportation argument, it was good for the playable class argument. We could always go back and reduce WoW to a mountless RPG where your choices are Warrior, Priest, Hunter, or Mage. While flavor may not always look like the answer, it was the catalyst in Cataclysm that got people to play new classes with their favorite race, and vice versa.

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Because they can add another 10 healing and tanking classes and people will still not play more of them. The only thing you manage is taking away unique aspects from existing tank classes and distributing/diluting them to the new ones.

As a former DK you should know that DK was the #1 tank for mob positioning. Now we only number 2 for multiple enemies, since DH has the flat out better version of AoE-grip.

And in the meantime, people still play Brewmasters, Guardians, and Prots (Pally and Warrior) simply for personal preference. Not everyone is a Min/Max player. That went out the window with LFD and LFR.

[RuneDK]

So we got Demon Hunters, and it turned out to be another leather melee class. After DKs, Monks, and DHs (and Survival changing to melee) people are clamoring for a new ranged class. Others say that the class should be mail, since only Shaman and Hunters can use the armor type.

So, the question is what class should be next? Here are the three leading candidates:

Tinker: Gnome and Goblins using machinery and advanced technology to fight enemies.

Necromancer: Sinister spell-casters that use the dead to defeat their foes.

Bard: Talented musician who uses the power of song and music to buff up their allies.


Which one do you think will be the next class?

Necromancer probably will never happen...they could just change unholy dk's into that class. Which is actually something I was hoping they would do for Legion. Wow also has no room for a class like a bard. The only option really is tinker.

[Wildberry]

I find it hilarious that Teriz is still under the impression that "X-Existing Class overlaps with Y-New Class on ABC" is an argument against hypothetical new classes. Did Tinkers getting bitch slapped into never-happening by a class you zealously campaigned against for this very reason teach you nothing?

Much like Holy, Fel, etc. are large enough thematically to constitute two classes, Necromancy/Death can easily support one more class.

[Teriz]

Close to what Priests bring to the table that we aren't getting via the Paladin.

Priests can use Shadow magic, Paladins can't. Is there an entire school of magic that Necromancers can use but DKs can't?

Warlocks were stepping on Death Knight toes.
When Death Knight got released, Warlocks had their Death Coil renamed Mortal Coil.

That's one spell. You're talking about taking the entire theme of what makes a DK a DK away and giving it to another class.

Warlocks were stepping on Demon Hunter toes too.
When Demon Hunter got released, Warlocks lost Metamorphosis, etc.

True and that was pretty devastating to Warlocks. However, Warlocks only got Meta during WotLK, so the argument could be made that Blizzard was returning Warlocks to their "roots". Death Knights have ALWAYS had necromancer abilities.

Likewise, DK may be stepping on Necromancer toes.

That's doubtful considering that Blizzard used the Necromancer as a basis for the DK class.

Some DK abilities may be better represented in some other way.
In particular, bone-flavored abilities might be replaced with something else for DKs.

Or we could simply give DKs more interesting bone-flavored abilities?

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I find it hilarious that Teriz is still under the impression that "X-Existing Class overlaps with Y-New Class on ABC" is an argument against hypothetical new classes. Did Tinkers getting bitch slapped into never-happening by a class you zealously campaigned against for this very reason teach you nothing?

I find it hilarious that people complain about how the classes feel "samey" yet advocate for new classes that do the exact same thing as existing classes.