Steve Scalise shot in Virginia, aide also hit

[Wyrt]

Got to love Fox news trying to blame this on Democrat opposition to the Republican healthcare bill. Fair and balanced.

[Ghostpanther]

Nope it's 100% true, the government agency that would regulate and control the black market on guns is worthless. Our laws on guns vary wildly from state to state and guns do cross state lines.

Also all the following have been shut down or go unaddressed by the gun crowd because they somehow mean taking away your guns.

- Keeping guns away from the mentally ill.
- Properly funding, staffing and modernizing the ATF.
- A proper national gun database.
- Biometric technology so only their owners can use them.
- Limit on gun magazine.
- Psychological evaluation and proper training before getting a gun.

I am actually for people having guns but we as a country are off the deep end on this issue, you don't need to ban guns there are countries where guns are legal where mass shootings are not considered normal. Again there's no debate your side won anyone with a pulse can get a gun rather easily #USA.

Do you even understand what you posted? Here I will refresh your memory, we as a country have decided that everyone and anyone should have guns regardless of the consequences.


No matter the consequences? There are consequences for not obeying the gun laws in your state and the consequences for failing to do so are evident. In Ohio, if I get into a argument lets say with another person and during that argument I pull out my handgun and point it at the person, I have committed a felony. And the consequences of doing such is I will lose my carry conceal license and even the legal right to possess a firearm in my state and I am sure in every state. And I can be convicted and spend years in a prison.

There are laws which do punish those who have firearms and use them improperly and there are laws which prohibit certain people from legally having one. So your statement I am referring to is totally false.

No saying all you ideas are not good ones. But what other Constitutional right requires all you are wanting? There are already steps taken to lessen those with mental illness ( ones which have been proven and ordered by a court of law to take treatments for ) from getting and legally possessing firearms. A national gun registry of existing firearms is not realistically enforceable when you are talking about over 300 million firearms. If you want to start doing that from a certain date on, then fine for new sales. It is very easy and fast to switch out 10 round magazines. :P

[Draco-Onis]

Do you even understand what you posted? Here I will refresh your memory, we as a country have decided that everyone and anyone should have guns regardless of the consequences.


No matter the consequences? There are consequences for not obeying the gun laws in your state and the consequences for failing to do so are evident. In Ohio, if I get into a argument lets say with another person and during that argument I pull out my handgun and point it at the person, I have committed a felony. And the consequences of doing such is I will lose my carry conceal license and even the legal right to possess a firearm in my state and I am sure in every state. And I can be convicted and spend years in a prison.

There are laws which do punish those who have firearms and use them improperly and there are laws which prohibit certain people from legally having one. So your statement I am referring to is totally false.

No saying all you ideas are not good ones. But what other Constitutional right requires all you are wanting? There are already steps taken to lessen those with mental illness ( ones which have been proven and ordered by a court of law to take treatments for ) from getting and legally possessing firearms. A national gun registry of existing firearms is not realistically enforceable when you are talking about over 300 million firearms. If you want to start doing that from a certain date on, then fine for new sales. It is very easy and fast to switch out 10 round magazines. :P

- State laws are irrelevant guns don't magically stop crossing sate lines.
- All guns past 1970's I think are manufactured with serial numbers so it is rather easy to upload the database.
- Requiring all citizens to register guns would give you an idea of the black market for guns and those sold illegally making it easier to track them down.
- The steps to lessen those for mental illness are a joke and vary from state to state there is no federal standard.


Last but not least are you against empowering the ATF? you don't think they should be able to use computers? properly inspect dealer inventories for discrepancies? are you also against properly documenting gun violence?

Your stance seems to be it's too hard what we have is fine, I love mass shootings and gun violence let's do nothing

Again you won everyone can have a gun as long as they have a pulse.

[Ghostpanther]

As soon as you say gun registry the nutters think the government is going to come and take the guns.

You mean those who do not trust the politicians. :P There would be millions who would not register their firearms. Only realistic steps would be to start the registration with new gun sales after a starting date. Check out Connecticut's effort to require all of it's citizens to register their firearms. And that is just one state and a very small one at that. :P

[TITAN308]

No, there will be a tipping point when firearm violence will be treated as a public health issue, which will only tip the scales even more than it is now into firearm regulations..

The left couldn't even get anything done even after waving the bloody flag after a bunch of kids were shot up by a nutjob in Sandy Hooks. Keep grasping at straws. Even bloody ones.

Of course in recent history, big surprise, yet another left wing nut job causes violence upon the people. At this rate people should be more afraid of left wing extremist than right wing extremist and muslims combined.

[Stelio Kontos]

[TITAN308]

snip

lmao /rightclick save as

[Ghostpanther]

- State laws are irrelevant guns don't magically stop crossing sate lines.
- All guns past 1970's I think are manufactured with serial numbers so it is rather easy to upload the database.
- Requiring all citizens to register guns would give you an idea of the black market for guns and those sold illegally making it easier to track them down.
- The steps to lessen those for mental illness are a joke and vary from state to state there is no federal standard.


Last but not least are you against empowering the ATF? you don't think they should be able to use computers? properly inspect dealer inventories for discrepancies? are you also against properly documenting gun violence?

Your stance seems to be it's too hard what we have is fine, I love mass shootings and gun violence let's do nothing

Again you won everyone can have a gun as long as they have a pulse.

I have no issues with uploading the existing data base of guns sold. But even that will be misleading when so many will be sold privately, smuggled across the border or stolen and not reported, etc. I am not against giving the ATF the funds they need to do their job, but their main job should be going after criminals who are using firearms illegally.

You are going off the deep end dude if you think I love mass shootings and gun violence. We just happen to disagree on some points of gun control. Why not stay civil and keep it that way?

And it is not the wild west in the large majority of the US. And no, I already stated there are laws which are meant to keep certain people from having firearms. Just having a pulse does not mean they can have them as criminals still do. :P

[TITAN308]

The ATF cannot even properly maintain the NFA database. These ARE required registry items like suppressors, machine guns, short barrel rifles.

And you think our government can handle a database that is hundreds of millions times the size of this niche database?

ATF: NFA Records Are Unreliable, Often Missing

Since 1934 every machine gun, silencer, short barreled rifle, and “destructive device” has been required to be registered with the federal government. That registry (the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Records or NFRTR) became even more important when, in 1986, the registry was closed for machine guns — guns with giggle switches that were listed before the cutoff date were legal. Nothing after that could be registered, an artificial limit that’s made a roughly a $20,000 difference in gun values.

Over the years, owners of these pre-1986 firearms have noticed during regular inspections that ATF employees often have incomplete or missing records about the inventory they are supposed to be examining. We’d been able to cobble together some anecdotal evidence about the unreliability of the ATF’s system, but now we have data straight from the horse’s mouth — a survey that reveals ATF employees’ lack of confidence in NFRTR accuracy.

---

In short, the ATF’s records are incorrect and even when the agency gets the right information from the field, they don’t bother to update their broken database.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes, it may be dead in the water NOW, but who knows what happens 4-6-8 years from now when the Congress has seated an entirely different set of legislators. You would like to think it is just Right Wing Paranoia, but gun rights supporters are not entirely Right Wing. There are plenty of rabid gun rights supporters on the left you just write them off as nut job right wingers.



No, for fucks sake why is it that people deliberately or unconsciously fuck up the argument? The point isnt that you dont pass the law, the point is that you can pass these laws but they wont have any effect on someone who is willingly going to ignore them. I dont have an issue and actually think it is good to have a law outlawing murder. However we still have homicides, WHY? Because some people just dont care about laws. So when you sit there and think a law like background checks on private sales (which for the record I think is required in many jurisdictions) is going to solve the issue of criminals getting firearms, we just laugh. Its exactly like the gun free zone. Its a great idea, but by design, only law abiding people will follow it.

Its dead in the water period. So long as the gun lobby exists to ensure no effective federal legislation can be passed and no research can be done. The cdc is literally banned from investigating gun violence which has become an epidemic in emergency rooms across the country.

Again thats tautological. Criminals not following the law is not an.arguement against law. Its not fucking up the point its precisely the point. Criminals may still indeed receive firearms but making it harder and making it more punitive for them to have them will have an impact. Murderers ignore muder. We still make it incredible punitive to be a muderer and ideally because the punishment is potentially harsh enough people in general are less likely to murder and get put away if they do. Yes some people dont care about laws this is a not a particularly good argument against laws however or against anything really. If you can argue that gun regulation is ineffective for some other reason thats fine but arguing criminals will still be criminals is tautological and unconvincing. Bank robbers willl still.be bank robbers

[Deleted]

When you see them play the game now it will be a bit disappointing, they wont run as fast as they did during practice.

[Travis B]

When you see them play the game now it will be a bit disappointing, they wont run as fast as they did during practice.

LMAO, that's fucking funny.

[primalmatter]

One day the right will lose its saint like restraint and answer violence with violence. I wonder if anyone will even be surprised when it happens at this rate.

[Draco-Onis]

The ATF cannot even properly maintain the NFA database. These ARE required registry items like suppressors, machine guns, short barrel rifles.

And you think our government can handle a database that is hundreds of millions times the size of this niche database?

ATF: NFA Records Are Unreliable, Often Missing

That does tend to happen when they gut your budget, forbid you to use computers (congress mandate they use paper records) and basically have no man power. All this is by design because something something take away our guns, the ATF has always been worthless.

[Rhaide]

Ye, and these people dont want a state.

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But you got different kind of insane people going against each other in the US.

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That sort of the left wingers also have zero power in the US.

Maybe not politically, but they own many college campuses. If those students don't change, they absolutely will have power in a few decades.

- - - Updated - - -

Its dead in the water period. So long as the gun lobby exists to ensure no effective federal legislation can be passed and no research can be done. The cdc is literally banned from investigating gun violence which has become an epidemic in emergency rooms across the country.

Again thats tautological. Criminals not following the law is not an.arguement against law. Its not fucking up the point its precisely the point. Criminals may still indeed receive firearms but making it harder and making it more punitive for them to have them will have an impact. Murderers ignore muder. We still make it incredible punitive to be a muderer and ideally because the punishment is potentially harsh enough people in general are less likely to murder and get put away if they do. Yes some people dont care about laws this is a not a particularly good argument against laws however or against anything really. If you can argue that gun regulation is ineffective for some other reason thats fine but arguing criminals will still be criminals is tautological and unconvincing. Bank robbers willl still.be bank robbers

I don't disagree with you, but please don't outright lie. It doesn't help the point. Gun-related homicide has been in steady decline for decades.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

[Mormolyce]

So... isn't this the Second Amendment working as intended?

lmao /rightclick save as

You don't have to do that, it comes straight out of a standard meme generator.

[Ghostpanther]

So... isn't this the Second Amendment working as intended?

In essence, since the victims did have armed support to stop the attacker.

[Total Crica]

Politicians are reptilians.

"V" - I can't prove it, but I am convinced.

[chrisberb]

In essence, since the victims did have armed support to stop the attacker.

Second Amendment has zero to do with having a police detail protecting you.

[stabetha]

Second Amendment has zero to do with having a police detail protecting you.

but if those were just a bunch of kids playing softball without the police detail it would have been a massacre, So you're ok with only politicians being able to be defended?