What's wrong with Canada's healthcare system?

[GreenJesus]

hahhaha dear god.. She wanted a "white doctor".. come on... come on.. I love to make fun of Canada but come on dude... you used THIS video to do it?

[Adam Jensen]

In the context of "free healthcare", the point is that it's free to the end-user, not that it costs nobody anything. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

Are you as sick and tired as I am of explaining that every time someone says "there's no such thing as free" in the context of socialized medicine/college/etc?

It's like we get it, it has a cost in taxes.

[Baelic]

This woman is angry because she does not like the quality of her doctor and she later says she can't afford to go to a better doctor. I thought Canada had universal healthcare?

There are private practices in Canada (though few and rarely of better quality), and this lady is just a racist idiot.

Just wow. Do people actually do this in Canada?

Unfortunately yes, but not nearly to the extent of certain Countries that I won't (or even need to) name.

[LaplaceNoMa]

In the context of "free healthcare", the point is that it's free to the end-user, not that it costs nobody anything. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

In the context of real-life, the point is that everything that's free to the end-user, is always shit-tier USSR/Venezuela-style. Don't be deliberately ignorant and start reading things like Ayn Rand instead of your Marxist bullshit.

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There, I'll even get you that quote from 'Atlas Shrugged'.

“I quit when medicine was placed under State control some years ago. Do you know what it takes to perform a brain operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let them dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my reward. I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement of medicine, men discussed everything except the desires of the doctors. Men only considered the “welfare” of the patients with no thought for those who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right, desire or choice in the matter was regarded as irrelevant selfishness, his is not to choose, they said, only “to serve.” That a man who’s willing to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrust with a job in the stockyards — never occurred to those who proposed to help the sick by making life impossible for the healthy. I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind — yet what is it they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of their victims. Well that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind of doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover in their operating rooms and hospital wards that is it not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe if he is the sort who doesn’t.”

[Bathory]

There's no such thing as "free".

No one said free until you did, but hey, keep on with the tired ol response if it helps ya feel better.

[Surfd]

There, I'll even get you that quote from 'Atlas Shrugged'.

Did you just quote Ayn Rand, and then expect people to take you seriously? I'm so sorry. I will be over here laughing hysterically.

[Jakexe]

In the context of real-life, the point is that everything that's free to the end-user, is always shit-tier USSR/Venezuela-style. Don't be deliberately ignorant and start reading things like Ayn Rand instead of your Marxist bullshit.

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There, I'll even get you that quote from 'Atlas Shrugged'.

Yes, Ayn Rand, who spent her entire life railing against welfare only to happily take every cent she could from the government. What a figure for the right to rally behind, a hypocrite.

[Endus]

In the context of real-life, the point is that everything that's free to the end-user, is always shit-tier USSR/Venezuela-style. Don't be deliberately ignorant and start reading things like Ayn Rand instead of your Marxist bullshit.

Well, that was a pile of McCarthyist nonsense.

Universal health care systems in most developed nations, including Canada's, rate significantly higher than the USA's does on things like quality of care.

There, I'll even get you that quote from 'Atlas Shrugged'.

You do know that Objectivism is so obviously ridiculous an idea that not even Ayn Rand actually believed in or practiced it, right? You may as well have cited Lord of the Rings as a "defense" for monarchistic systems.

[LedZeppelin]

In the context of "free healthcare", the point is that it's free to the end-user, not that it costs nobody anything. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

Dont be obtuse? Get off your high horse. You are just being ignorant. Just because the bill appears somewhere else for the end user doesnt mean that its free.

[Endus]

Dont be obtuse? Get off your high horse. You are just being ignorant. Just because the bill appears somewhere else for the end user doesnt mean that its free.

In the context of "free healthcare", that's exactly what it means. You're attacking a straw man you deliberately created to derail the discussion. Nobody thinks "free health care" isn't paid for somewhere.

It's like if your local donut shop has a sign out front saying "Free Donuts". Pointing out that the shop owner had to buy the ingredients and invest his time in making them so they're not really "free" is being deliberately obtuse. The sign means they're free to customers, not that they had no cost to anyone.

It's a ridiculous and deliberately misleading tactic used to falsely try to discredit universal health care.

[LedZeppelin]

In the context of "free healthcare", that's exactly what it means. You're attacking a straw man you deliberately created to derail the discussion. Nobody thinks "free health care" isn't paid for somewhere.

It's like if your local donut shop has a sign out front saying "Free Donuts". Pointing out that the shop owner had to buy the ingredients and invest his time in making them so they're not really "free" is being deliberately obtuse. The sign means they're free to customers, not that they had no cost to anyone.

It's a ridiculous and deliberately misleading tactic used to falsely try to discredit universal health care.

No, your line of logic is ridiculous and misleading. Your analogy is shit was well. Its more like a donut shop owner hangs a sign that says free donuts and then rises his prices. Even that analogy isnt good because you can decide to stop going to the donut store but in the current day governments reallllllllllllllllllly dont like it when people dont pay their taxes

[Endus]

No, your line of logic is ridiculous and misleading. Your analogy is shit was well. Its more like a donut shop owner hangs a sign that says free donuts and then rises his prices.

Not even a little. Because the "price" to the customer is "free". That's the point.

Your entire argument is a meaningless and fundamentally wrong bit of propaganda, and nothing more. It's particularly silly when you're talking about "raising prices", when the facts are that universal health care systems are significantly more cost-efficient than the American health care system, for similar quality health care (better, in most respects).

If you want to make a comparison, it's like you're the guy who runs a big donut shop chain, and you're charging $4/donut. Because fuck you, that's why. And all your major competitors are giving their donuts away for free to members, and those memberships cost way less than your donuts. And you're complaining "their donuts aren't FREE, because you need a MEMBERSHIP", and nobody cares because they're getting more donuts, cheaper, and they're better donuts than yours anyway.

Even that analogy isnt good because you can decide to stop going to the donut store but in the current day governments reallllllllllllllllllly dont like it when people dont pay their taxes

Your tax burden isn't in any way related to your access to medical services. Yet again, you're completely wrong about pretty basic concepts.

[LedZeppelin]

Not even a little. Because the "price" to the customer is "free". That's the point.

Your entire argument is a meaningless and fundamentally wrong bit of propaganda, and nothing more. It's particularly silly when you're talking about "raising prices", when the facts are that universal health care systems are significantly more cost-efficient than the American health care system, for similar quality health care (better, in most respects).



Your tax burden isn't in any way related to your access to medical services. Yet again, you're completely wrong about pretty basic concepts.

True or false, you get a car from the dealer and you dont have to pay anything now but you pay over the next 12 months. Is the car free? You seem to think the answer is yes.

[Endus]

True or false, you get a car from the dealer and you dont have to pay anything now but you pay over the next 12 months. Is the car free? You seem to think the answer is yes.

Deferred payment isn't remotely comparable. Because deferred payment is still payment.

There's no deferred payments in a universal health care system. It's free. You pay nothing for covered medical services. Ever.

Taxpayers pay for the system as a whole, but that's not divided out based on services rendered, it's distributed the same way all tax services are. Universal health care is as "free" as city streets, or police protection, or the like.

[LaplaceNoMa]

Yes, Ayn Rand, who spent her entire life railing against welfare only to happily take every cent she could from the government. What a figure for the right to rally behind, a hypocrite.

Did you just quote Ayn Rand, and then expect people to take you seriously? I'm so sorry. I will be over here laughing hysterically.

Well, that was a pile of McCarthyist nonsense.

Universal health care systems in most developed nations, including Canada's, rate significantly higher than the USA's does on things like quality of care.



You do know that Objectivism is so obviously ridiculous an idea that not even Ayn Rand actually believed in or practiced it, right? You may as well have cited Lord of the Rings as a "defense" for monarchistic systems.

Oh boy, the sweet butthurt leftist fallacy rain.

Thank you, fellas, for Correcting the Record™.

[Cybran]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/661...ff-from-abroad

A Freedom of Information Act request showed that, of 460 doctors banned from practising in that period, 330 (72 per cent) trained abroad.

They include a Ghanaian neurosurgeon who pretended he had removed a patient’s brain tumour and an Italian-trained GP who failed to spot that a heavily pregnant woman – who later died – had pneumonia.

The largest number of foreign doctors struck off came from India, followed by Pakistan and Nigeria.

A third of NHS doctors were trained overseas.

The woman has a point. It's MAINLY foreign doctors who have fake diplomas and endanger patients.

[LaplaceNoMa]

True or false, you get a car from the dealer and you dont have to pay anything now but you pay over the next 12 months. Is the car free? You seem to think the answer is yes.

Dude, it's beyond pointless to argue anything with an obviously brainwashed guy who seriously would've liked to live his life somewhere in USSR or Venezuela.

[LedZeppelin]

Deferred payment isn't remotely comparable. Because deferred payment is still payment.

There's no deferred payments in a universal health care system. It's free. You pay nothing for covered medical services. Ever.

Taxpayers pay for the system as a whole, but that's not divided out based on services rendered, it's distributed the same way all tax services are. Universal health care is as "free" as city streets, or police protection, or the like.

So the tax payers, pay into a system.......but its still free.

If it costs you money, it isnt free.
If it costs someone else money, it isnt free.

Someone covering your ass doesnt make something free.

I dont know how you can say what you are saying with a straight face. This "haha its free for me, so fuck you" is as childish as it is embarrassing.

You ever give a gift to someone? Yeah its free to them but you still paid.

Universal health care is as "free" as city streets, or police protection, or the like.

So not free at all.

Sure anyone can call an emergency number, does that mean its free?

How the cost is divided is irrelevant. Some people get a free ride because they dont pay for it in taxes. Still doesnt mean its free.

It would just be so much simpler if you were just honest and say. "Universal healthcare is not free because it is paid for by the taxpayer. But I think it is a good reason because....."

Something can still cost money and still be a good idea but dont kid yourself.

[LaplaceNoMa]

So the tax payers, pay into a system.......but its still free.

If it costs you money, it isnt free.
If it costs someone else money, it isnt free.

Someone covering your ass doesnt make something free.

I dont know how you can say what you are saying with a straight face. This "haha its free for me, so fuck you" is as childish as it is embarrassing.

You ever give a gift to someone? Yeah its free to them but you still paid.


So not free at all.

Sure anyone can call an emergency number, does that mean its free?

How the cost is divided is irrelevant. Some people get a free ride because they dont pay for it in taxes. Still doesnt mean its free.

It would just be so much simpler if you were just honest and say. "Universal healthcare is not free because it is paid for by the taxpayer. But I think it is a good reason because....."

Something can still cost money and still be a good idea but dont kid yourself.

Leftists don't believe in the concept of private property, therefore in their eyes you or anyone paying taxes don't actually own anything that they paid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Endus]

So the tax payers, pay into a system.......but its still free.

To the end user, yes.

If it costs you money, it isnt free.
If it costs someone else money, it isnt free.

By that argument, pretty much nothing is "free". Or maybe your use of the word is just wildly incorrect. By your use of the word, there's no such thing as free coffee at an event or meeting, because someone, somewhere, paid for that coffee. This is obviously ridiculous and pedantic and wrong.

How the cost is divided is irrelevant. Some people get a free ride because they dont pay for it in taxes. Still doesnt mean its free.

You literally just admitted that it was, by calling it a "free ride". You can't even stay consistent with yourself because of how ridiculous your argument is.

It would just be so much simpler if you were just honest and say. "Universal healthcare is not free because it is paid for by the taxpayer. But I think it is a good reason because....."

Universal healthcare is free to the end-user, because it is paid for by taxpayers.

Everyone advocating for universal health care knows this. It isn't the surprising "gotcha" you apparently think it is.