What is Blizzard expecting us to do with them?

[Lochton]

It's been going on for a very long time, and from what I see from people's reaction it's only getting worst.
Just last week, during a pug heroic ToS, in order to survive we had to kick them all and they got mad.

What are we supposed to do with Ragnaros, Azralon, Quel'Thalas and Goldrinn players?

Because very obviously we can't play with them, they are not good enough. We can't communicate, only about 10% of them can speak understandable English (which is also not my first language, so no need for that "you selfish ignorant Americans bla bla bla" (I'm not even American)).
More and more I see people refusing to join groups lead by these players, or refuse to invite them in their groups.

In short here's what happened in that pug I mentioned:
The leader is from Goldrinn, he invites a bunch of people, we go to Mistress. We stand in front of her and nothing happens, there is no raid leading happening whatsoever, all he does is say something like "tanks go". So we do a pull timer and go for it, see how it goes.
Obviously we get trashed.
So the other tank says that we should get on voice, it would make everything much easier and that some raid leading would help people less familiar with the fight. Again, no response from the leader. So that nice lady tank offers people to join her Discord server, she gives the link, some people get in.
"Yeah it's gonna be much easier now."
"We can call stuff and explain the fight."
"Right, but we need people to get on discord with us, we need the whole raid in here."
So in raid chat we insist that people get in to make it easier. We ask the leader if he wants to raid lead or just give it to someone who will. So he gives lead to someone who was in Discord with us, some more people get in discord as well, some are missing.
So the new leader says "Alright, if you're in discord click no on that readycheck" (the classic move).
We were like 25 in the raid, 18 in discord, but only about 15 clicked no. He proceeded to kick everyone who clicked yes. All of them from the servers mentioned above.
Some guy seeing a bunch of people from his server getting kicked one after the other gets mad and says something like "why you kick all these people? they are on discord". So the leader tells him about the readycheck thing and the guy replies "well they don't understand english" to which the leader replies "what good are they if they can't even listen to raid calls in discord?".
The guy gets even more pissed and accuses him of racism and kicking people just because they don't speak english, and he leaves. (he was the only person from these servers to understand english, he was not gonna get kicked but all his language-challenged friends got kicked already).
We then proceeded to raid like normal.

Needless to say this anti BR attitude everybody has comes from a neverending streak of bad experiences of playing with people from these servers. It's not based on anything besides the fact that they are much lesser talented players than every other server, that's just a fact (okay maybe they have one or two prodigal players here and there) but it's nothing cultural or truly racist.

We can't really tell them what to do, can't give any tips, can't really help them, they don't understand english. I mean even if we wanted to help them get better, there's nothing we can do.
Why are their servers connected to english speaking servers?
There's nothing we can do with them, what does blizzard want from us?

In the end they think we're racist assholes simply because we refuse to wipe endlessly. That's not cool for anyone and all this would be avoided if they had their own battlegroup.

Can't stand the communication between languages and groups, that is where one would have to direct you to be part of a complete raiding group. And don't invite people whom can't confirm without a real answer? Pretty sure a lot of EU players aren't really feeling bad for you.

[Kagthul]

You aren't expected to do "anything" with them. Don't invite to groups, don't join their groups.

Problem solved.

This literally got some people banned.

[Phookah]

This literally got some people banned.

No it didn't, because its physically impossible for Blizzard to ban you for things you DIDN'T do.

Open group finder> See BR leader of group > don't click "join"

Running your own group? Even easier!

Open group finder> See applicants> click ones you want

Ta da!

[Deleted]

Im implying that the fact that the best guild in the world is from Russia, sets a precedent for high skill levels. My personal experience supports this. Obviously there are shit and obnoxious Russian players , but the majority isn't. Like I said in my original post. All I'm getting from you is a racist and toxic attitude to a whole group of people.

Except the majority is, have you not played video games in the past decade?

[Kagthul]

No it didn't, because its physically impossible for Blizzard to ban you for things you DIDN'T do.

Open group finder> See BR leader of group > don't click "join"

Running your own group? Even easier!

Open group finder> See applicants> click ones you want

Ta da!

... it was seriously on the front page here. With a statement from Blue posters and everything. People DID get banned because they dared to list, in their group heading "no players from X servers".

It happened. Seriously.

[Jazzhands]

Im implying that the fact that the best guild in the world is from Russia, sets a precedent for high skill levels. My personal experience supports this. Obviously there are shit and obnoxious Russian players , but the majority isn't. Like I said in my original post. All I'm getting from you is a racist and toxic attitude to a whole group of people.

Method isn't Russian.

OT: In content that requires communication, it's not a good thing to group with people who can't or refuse to communicate. I've had nothing but bad experiences with people from these servers, so I typically just avoid them. I tried many times, but I just gave up after the 8th or 9th time a 910+ player doesn't use lust in M+

[Nero Stormchester]

Method isn't Russian.

OT: In content that requires communication, it's not a good thing to group with people who can't or refuse to communicate. I've had nothing but bad experiences with people from these servers, so I typically just avoid them. I tried many times, but I just gave up after the 8 or 9th time a 910+ player doesn't use lust in M+

Exorsus is , and they whooped Methods ass. Repeatedly .

[Onikaroshi]

Not learning English in today's society is a hinderance to you more than helping. English is the 3rd most popular First language and most popular overall language in the world. It is basically called the "world language" becuase it's used for basically everything country, something like 94 countries have it as their first or second official language, and last I recall it was referred to as the official language of business.

[Kagthul]

It's not a problem on European Server's since nearly every country you listed has English taught in School for up to 8 years as 2nd or 3rd Language after their primary national language.

Maybe American Schools should teach Spanish/Portuguese as a 2nd language since like the other half of the Continent speaks that.

A lot of US High Schools (depends on state) require you to take at least 2 years of a second language. Spanish is usually the choice, and a lot of schools may have a single teacher who teaches two or three languages, and then 2 spanish teachers. But it's not universal and would have done me zero good in any case. Ive been trying to learn other languages my entire life, since i was young, and I simply cant. They do not connect in my brain. I can still read Cyrillic, though. Only thing i retained from trying to learn Russian.

My wife, on the other hand, speaks 5 languages fluently and is working on Gaelic. Masters in Linguistics. People are different. I know a LOT of people that cant retain other languages, both from the US and other countries.

Or it's a South American problem with teaching english in Schools as a 2nd but i dont know anything about that subject.

AFAIK, most South American countries dont teach english at the primary school level. It wouldnt be something you learn until you are into the equivalent of US High School and probably then only if you are going down certain career paths, and in a lot of those countries, if you aren't going down a career path that leads to college, you dont attend past what would be 9th or 10th grade in the US.

So, in short, no, most South American countries dont learn English in school.

[reemi]

Also have very bad experience with people from those realms...

Now, if I join a raid hosted by them, I just quit...

I don't understand why those servers are linked with us, they don't even speak english a little.

[judgementofantonidas]

Learning a few basic words of portuguese or spanish won't kill you.

riiiiight. ooooor we could just continue as normal and only play with english speaking players or the very small percent of non english speaking players with the skill to operate without voice interaction.

[Kagthul]

back on topic...

As a guy who can't speak a lick of another language despite trying for years to learn several different languages...

I really think it is unfair in both directions.

Its got to be frustrating for the South American/Latin American players to have to play with people they cant communicate with. It's certain frustrating as all hell for me not being able to communicate with people, so i have to imagine it is terrible for them, too.

There are enough of them to support a server cluster for them. Blizzard should do everyone involved a favor and let them have their own servers, instead of trying to force people who cant communicate together so they can all be frustrated and unhappy.

[Jazzhands]

Exorsus is , and they whooped Methods ass. Repeatedly .

They're 2-1 in the current expansion, but EN was kind of a joke tier. Method took all the WF in WoD iirc, nearly all of them in MoP. And before that they were consistant 2nd/3rd behind Paragon and Blood Legion with the occasional. Exorsus has done amazing this expansion, but prior to that they don't have much.

Also, just because a world class guild is in that region doesn't mean the overall skill of said region is higher. Currently there are the same number of US and RU guilds in top 20, and the top 3 consist of a guild from each region, tied at 7/9. Seems pretty even to me.

[tss]

Complaining about the language barrier is only an american problem.. European players have to deal with this on daily basis.

Learning a few basic words of portuguese or spanish won't kill you.

Learning how to communicate in the global lingua franca would behoove those who can't. Learning a second language is nearly useless trivia for the everyday American.

The ones who speak perfect English are always apologizing for the idiocy of their server peers. Can you see where the fucking problem lies?

but nah fucking ignorant amuricans!!!!!!!!111

[czimgreen]

AFAIK, most South American countries dont teach english at the primary school level. It wouldnt be something you learn until you are into the equivalent of US High School and probably then only if you are going down certain career paths, and in a lot of those countries, if you aren't going down a career path that leads to college, you dont attend past what would be 9th or 10th grade in the US.

So, in short, no, most South American countries dont learn English in school.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Most of South America starts teaching English to 10 years old kids and it's mandatory up until people are at least 17 years old (I'm not talking grades because almost all countries have different grading systems). And then, people who go to college have mandatory english courses for at least 2 more years, if not 4.

But then again, just like you, most people aren't actually able to truly learn it, it's just impossible for them.
And then there's a lot of people who just don't care. Why would they? They probably won't need to ever use it. Ever. We can have a sucessful meaningul life without ever using english, we have everything we need in spanish (Which is practically the argument a lof of Americans are using here to not learn other languages).
And there's also the fact that public education sucks here too. I'll high five on irony over that.

Languague barriers run both ways.

------

I started playing on US realms but moved to LA to play with non-English speaking friends.
I've always liked to pug because I love playing a multicultural game (I totally understand people who don't), and even though there's always an important amount of stupid people, I liked playing on US servers. So When I pugged on those servers, it was the usual shit show everyone is used to. I actually hated Ragnaros too, because of a couple bad experiences
On LA though, people don't pug, everyone would rather be doing content with guilds or people on friend lists. I soon understood why.
When I get invited, 40% of the time they say 'nvm its ragnaros' and I get kicked. When I don't get kicked, before we even pull there's always someone saying 'hey kick the ragnaros player hes dumb and sucks build the wall lol'.
When Trump won, as dumb as it sounds, I could see the difference. The amount of people with superiority problems that used hard hitting hate speech was too much. I ended up hating Americans, it was enough for me to make a permanent generalization of them. I also ended up thanking players who were not hateful (Can you see how sad is that? How much hate does anyone have to receive to start making a person thank someone else for not being hateful?)

So I stopped playing wow, because i'm not up for stressing over a dumb game.
When I come back in a couple months, I certainly won't ever play with american servers again, despite my wishes to meet English speakers in a mmorpg.

If I were to get sociological or anthropological, I'd make the analogy of what happens with real life racism and borders among the US with all the rest of the continent (or the whole world for that matter), and why all the rest of the world hates the country. (And to a greater extent, South America and Africa hating their northern counterparts)

Point is OP, don't blame it on latin people because you had a bad time on a pug raid. Poor little whining you.
Just shut up, get over it and do whatever the fuck you want without spreading hate speech. You'll do everyone a great favor if you stop playing with LA servers.

[Kagthul]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Most of South America starts teaching English to 10 years old kids and it's mandatory up until people are at least 17 years old (I'm not talking grades because almost all countries have different grading systems). And then, people who go to college have mandatory english courses for at least 2 more years, if not 4.

You should take that up with those countries then, because their own websites dont back up one fucking word you're saying. Just, you know, putting that out there.

But then again, just like you, most people aren't actually able to truly learn it, it's just impossible for them.

Factually false. The inability i have to learn languages is extremely rare. Comes from having a wife who has a masters in linguistics, i guess, but thats one statistic im well aware of.

And then there's a lot of people who just don't care. Why would they? They probably won't need to ever use it. Ever. We can have a sucessful meaningul life without ever using english, we have everything we need in spanish (Which is practically the argument a lof of Americans are using here to not learn other languages).
And there's also the fact that public education sucks here too. I'll high five on irony over that.

Languague barriers run both ways.

Now, here we agree. Unless you're going into certain trades (that would lead you to deal with other countries or language groups) there really isn't a reason for most people (the world over) to learn more than one language. This is going to perforce change as we become more of a global society (which is happening wether any of us like it or not, that ship has long since sailed), and at some point the world is going to agree (even if they never actually have a single talk and "Agree") that one language is going to be the one that everyone has to learn to communicate cross-nationally.

Now, im not saying it should be English, or shouldn't be (i dont really have a strong opinion here), but English is likely because it is (again, we're talking scientifically proven here) substantially easier to learn as a second language than almost any other, and certainly FAR easier than the other top contender (Mandarin). Spanish is a solid number 3 on the list of options, and if i had to choose between Mandarin or Spanish as the one that eventually wins out, Spanish it is. Mandarin is a fuckin nightmare if you're not a native speaker.

------

I started playing on US realms but moved to LA to play with non-English speaking friends.
I've always liked to pug because I love playing a multicultural game (I totally understand people who don't), and even though there's always an important amount of stupid people, I liked playing on US servers. So When I pugged on those servers, it was the usual shit show everyone is used to. I actually hated Ragnaros too, because of a couple bad experiences
On LA though, people don't pug, everyone would rather be doing content with guilds or people on friend lists. I soon understood why.
When I get invited, 40% of the time they say 'nvm its ragnaros' and I get kicked. When I don't get kicked, before we even pull there's always someone saying 'hey kick the ragnaros player hes dumb and sucks build the wall lol'.
When Trump won, as dumb as it sounds, I could see the difference. The amount of people with superiority problems that used hard hitting hate speech was too much. I ended up hating Americans, it was enough for me to make a permanent generalization of them. I also ended up thanking players who were not hateful (Can you see how sad is that? How much hate does anyone have to receive to start making a person thank someone else for not being hateful?)

So I stopped playing wow, because i'm not up for stressing over a dumb game.
When I come back in a couple months, I certainly won't ever play with american servers again, despite my wishes to meet English speakers in a mmorpg.

If I were to get sociological or anthropological, I'd make the analogy of what happens with real life racism and borders among the US with all the rest of the continent (or the whole world for that matter), and why all the rest of the world hates the country. (And to a greater extent, South America and Africa hating their northern counterparts)

You could do that, but the majority of the US isn't racist at all, so you'd look like a complete ignorant fuckwit. Like a lot of South American countries, we're subject to Minority Rule right now because of how our election system gets abused. So yeah, on the world stage, we come off that way and i cant blame anyone for seeing it that way...

But its not because a majority of people here are racist. Its because our will has been hijacked through Gerrymandering and the Electoral College, which should have died with the telephone.

And ... you should know that people playing MMOs are often trolls. And that goes no matter what country they come from. Ive seen a LOT of BR/LA players from those servers DELIBERATELY pretend not to understand english and troll the groups and cause wipes. I dont blame Brazillians or other South Americans as a whole. I blame the fucking trolls, who happen in that case, to be from Latin/South America.

Trolls will be trolls will be trolls.

Point is OP, don't blame it on latin people because you had a bad time on a pug raid. Poor little whining you.
Just shut up, get over it and do whatever the fuck you want without spreading hate speech. You'll do everyone a great favor if you stop playing with LA servers.

Calm your tits, fren. He didn't spread any hate speech. Not one bit. Certainly nothing racist.

Hes asking this question because BLIZZARD WILL LITERALLY BAN YOU FOR NOT PLAYING WITH THOSE PEOPLE.

It fucking happened already.

Someone listed "No one from X servers" in their group and GOT FUCKING BANNED.

Thats the point of the thread. If we're not allowed to exclude them, what the fuck ARE we supposed to do?

its not good for us, its not good for them, so whats the solution.

[Sonnillon]

Stop the political discussion please, it has nothing to do with this thread.

[Dys]

This is one issue that Square handled very well in their FF MMO's with their auto-translator. Language is going to be a natural barrier in any world wide game, and I think it's sad that Blizzard hasn't already put systems in place to diminish that barrier.

The FF auto-translate isn't perfect by any means, but it's good enough so you can get shit done competently and quickly with people that you can't talk to at all.

[Deleted]

Stop the political discussion please, it has nothing to do with this thread.

But it's ok to bashing other nationalities? Fucking joke of a moderator you are.

[satimy]

Exorsus is , and they whooped Methods ass. Repeatedly .

And they all communicate in 1 language I would guess