Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Charge me Doctor]

No matter who wins i have a strong feeling both guilds will be unhappy with the raid overall, from first 7 that fell down fast and had to be hotfixed to prevent a strat that shouldnt've passed PTR testing, to the mess that is last two bosses.

The thing with PTR testing is that players (quite often) tend to keep the bugs to themselves, to use them later on live. Then we have hotfixes like that

- - - Updated - - -

only 2 guilds doing competetive raiding :thinking: dancing on the edge of breaching ToS and doing dodgy shit to get even a slight advancement instead of doing it time-consuming "intended" way

ftfy

No, seriously, they should stop doing that shit, selling raid runs? Buying characters? What the fuck really.
Funny thing is that guilds who do the same shit "because top guilds do paid runs too" do that without realizing that they'll get a much greater hit than "top guilds" - two friends of mine who were selling mythic gul'dan got perma'd and they don't have resources to just buy someone elses character (without getting detected and banned again) and keep doing this shit. Off course their RL who kept most of money to himself didn't care - he had a "healthy roster of rogues" to pull new victims from.
TL;DR: guilds should stop selling runs and buying characters and just count their losses when they get hit with banhammer, or accept that they won't be able to get 925+ balance druids or whatever next week, don't they have fucking dignity or ethics? After all they only show an example how guild shouldn't be operating.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not hard bosses that are killing guilds, it's all the grind and preparation outside of raids with Legion. Thankfully Blizzard at least recognized part of this with concordance not being as absurd as getting 54 traits was.

But, the endless grind for titanforging and alts taking way more time than ever is the thing killing guilds. That's not even touching the tip of the iceberg with legendaries.

That's... that's the nature of MMORPG - before doing late game content you have to grind to proper power level...

[bowchikabow]

That's... that's the nature of MMORPG - before doing late game content you have to grind to proper power level...

The problem is that players, not blizzard, are controlling the required "player power".

[Barnabas]

The thing with PTR testing is that players (quite often) tend to keep the bugs to themselves, to use them later on live. Then we have hotfixes like that

- - - Updated - - -


ftfy

No, seriously, they should stop doing that shit, selling raid runs? Buying characters? What the fuck really.
Funny thing is that guilds who do the same shit "because top guilds do paid runs too" do that without realizing that they'll get a much greater hit than "top guilds" - two friends of mine who were selling mythic gul'dan got perma'd and they don't have resources to just buy someone elses character (without getting detected and banned again) and keep doing this shit. Off course their RL who kept most of money to himself didn't care - he had a "healthy roster of rogues" to pull new victims from.
TL;DR: guilds should stop selling runs and buying characters and just count their losses when they get hit with banhammer, or accept that they won't be able to get 925+ balance druids or whatever next week, don't they have fucking dignity or ethics? After all they only show an example how guild shouldn't be operating.

- - - Updated - - -



That's... that's the nature of MMORPG - before doing late game content you have to grind to proper power level...

Only way that happens is when Blizzard starts lawsuits against boosting services and even threaten guilds with legal action if they continue. Making people start over on a fresh character isn't ever going to do much as a punishment. Warcraft isn't the only Blizzard game boosting companies target.

[Deleted]

Raiding in Vanilla was more exciting and harder because you had to farm way way lower elementals and had to farm herbs for days :thinking:

Raiding in vanilla was more exciting because there weren't 4 different versions of each boss and the bosses you were killing felt cool, important and unique. I mean right now we're doing a raid to kill a boss that we killed 5 expansions ago.

I'll give you the difficulty part although it is kinda relative. Different times, different players.

[Destroyed]

If KJ doesn't die this reset then this will be the longest end boss left alive we've had since Archimonde (2 years ago) which took 15 days from first mythic boss killed, then Ra-Den (4 years ago) which took 29 days as well from the first heroic kill.


edited for correction

[Deleted]

If KJ doesn't die this reset then this will be the longest end boss left alive we've had since Ra-Den (4 years ago)

He hasn't even passed mythic archimonde yet. Who also lived into the 2nd reset

[Destroyed]

He hasn't even passed mythic archimonde yet. Who also lived into the 2nd reset

We are going into the 3rd reset this week

[Deleted]

Didn't Archimonde die on Thursday the 3rd reset?

[Deleted]

We are going into the 3rd reset this week

This has less to do about the difficulty of the raid and more to do with how competition has become weaker with previous #1 guilds quitting. Prime example why such statistics need context to support them.

[Deleted]

This has less to do about the difficulty of the raid and more to do with how competition has become weaker with previous #1 guilds quitting. Prime example why such statistics need context to support them.

Yea I'm sure if Paragon raided during HFC Archimonde would die week 1 ez. Oh wait..

[Destroyed]

This has less to do about the difficulty of the raid and more to do with how competition has become weaker with previous #1 guilds quitting. Prime example why such statistics need context to support them.

All the kill times for the end boss I listed were killed by Method for world first -- your argument right now is pointless.

[Seramore]

All the kill times for the end boss I listed were killed by Method for world first -- your argument right now is pointless.

Archimonde died in 15 days brodie. we're 13 days into the tier, 12 for EU.

KJ could very well die within the same time frame as archimonde.

or maybe later, who knows. and more importantly, who cares really

[tratra]

Sapphiron - 2nd September 2006
1. Death & Taxes, Korgath US
3. Nihilum, Magtheridon EU (EU First - 4th September 2006)

Kel'Thuzad - 7th September 2006
1. Nihilum, Magtheridon EU
2. Risen, Alleria US (US First - 8th September 2006)

So you are saying DnT somehow skipped Sapphiron and had 1% wipe at KT? Yeah I call that bullshit. It took Nihilum 3 days to kill KT.

DnT killed Sapphiron world 1st. Dnt had Kel'Thuzad despawning on them at 1% before Nihilum even got to Kel'Thuzad. When nihilum got KT to 1% it despawned for them as well which was fair game as it was a bug. Nihilum managed to kill KT world first cause they got more time due to the fact that DnT weren't expecting him to just respawn at that time.

Also DnT did kill KT world 2nd, and the SK gaming website you took the info from is quite inaccurate on the days and everything. Back then there were no actual websites tracking stuff as there were no api's to armory's or anything.

The only way to get info on that race was to go online and check yourself on EU/US and irc.

I don't have any reason to bshit on anything, stop trying to become a detective you are bad at it.

[Destroyed]

Archimonde died in 15 days brodie. we're 13 days into the tier, 12 for EU.

KJ could very well die within the same time frame as archimonde.

or maybe later, who knows. and more importantly, who cares really

It's just fun to see raids that actually last a long time, content being cleared in 2 weeks seems to be demoralizing for the dev team.

[Inuyaki]

The whole "raids were harder because players were worse" is ridiculous...
So if I try to climb the Mont Blanc and fail or at least take weeks for it and someone with more preparation climbs the Mount Everest in less time... that does not make the Mont Blanc the harder mountain to climb...
Players were worse back then, deal with it... raids were easier

- - - Updated - - -

But you must learn to look from a different angle: If you are a player only with exp in MC, BWL and AQ40 and you went to Naxx40 the first time you just got destroyed - end of story.

Not true...
the first spider boss was pretty easy

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Guys in Method need to get back to RL jobs so Blizzard will nerf it Wednesday.

[Seramore]

The whole "raids were harder because players were worse" is ridiculous...
So if I try to climb the Mont Blanc and fail or at least take weeks for it and someone with more preparation climbs the Mount Everest in less time... that does not make the Mont Blanc the harder mountain to climb...
Players were worse back then, deal with it... raids were easier

- - - Updated - - -


Not true...
the first spider boss was pretty easy

your statement is ridiculous

how does the skill of the players from that time not equate to the difficulty of the raid?

- - - Updated - - -

It's just fun to see raids that actually last a long time, content being cleared in 2 weeks seems to be demoralizing for the dev team.

the dev team doesn't work solely for the top 0.01% of the playerbase, I don't think players who invest an incredible amount of time to clear a raid in two weeks is demoralizing to them.

I see your point though

[Deleted]

It's just fun to see raids that actually last a long time, content being cleared in 2 weeks seems to be demoralizing for the dev team.

This is completely normal as long as splitraids are possible.

The amount of gear you can get out of those splitraids in combination with titan and warforged is insane. At the same time you get incredible gear out of m+, world bosses, chests, you get like 5 bonusrolls average every ID .....

All of the real hardcore guilds will run like 5 or even more splitraids and just have so much gear, that they don t even need to farm mythic gear that much. And with the knowledge and skills those guilds have nowadays, the addons and theorycrafter they have combined with the PTR testing.....they will kill bosses if its theoreticly doable.

[Gorsameth]

Raiding in vanilla was more exciting because there weren't 4 different versions of each boss and the bosses you were killing felt cool, important and unique. I mean right now we're doing a raid to kill a boss that we killed 5 expansions ago.

I'll give you the difficulty part although it is kinda relative. Different times, different players.

Lucifron, Gehennas, Shazzrah, Sulfuron Harbinger, Majordomo Executus

5 different versions of the same boss.

[TJ]

Yea I'm sure if Paragon raided during HFC Archimonde would die week 1 ez. Oh wait..

Doubt week 1, but before Method I'd put money on. Don't I sound like a fanboy.