Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[Denpepe]

It's shitty because the Z370 is a rebranded Z270 and the real cfl pch will be the Z390 which will only be out in q1 2018.

[Hellshout]

I read on LinusTech forum the socket will be the same, dimensions wise, but it will be different pinout than Z270/170 for the power delivery as the CFL need more and the current boards don't support it.
So you could drop a CFL in a Z270, but it might not power up.

Sucks imho for them to launch one mobo for one cpu, since next gen will be 10 nm, but apparently Intel is greedy like that...
I'm really hoping the future of CPUs is not 9999 cores at 2 GHz. Rather have 10GHz on 4 cores.

[Evildeffy]

I read on LinusTech forum the socket will be the same, dimensions wise, but it will be different pinout than Z270/170 for the power delivery as the CFL need more and the current boards don't support it.
So you could drop a CFL in a Z270, but it might not power up.

Sucks imho for them to launch one mobo for one cpu, since next gen will be 10 nm, but apparently Intel is greedy like that...
I'm really hoping the future of CPUs is not 9999 cores at 2 GHz. Rather have 10GHz on 4 cores.

Regardless if pin-out choices may be different on retail, the socket is the same, the number of pin-outs is the same and the number of connected pins are the same.
The only reason for this is greed, pure and simple.

Having said that you miss out on features the new chipset MIGHT offer that the old one doesn't have but that's unlikely to be a major reason.
Because if that were the case X299 wouldn't have Kaby Lake-X f.ex.

As for the latter part... not happening, there's a physical physics wall (HAH!) with current technology, can't reach 10GHz without requiring a nuclear power plant and a dedicated house converted into a heatsink for cooling that 10GHz CPU.

I.E. Multi-Core is the only way (for the forseeable future) to continue performance increases.

[Denpepe]

According to this article cfl z370 mobo's will come with 24 pcie lanes iso 16 so there is at least something to be gained even if it is minor.

[Lathais]

According to this article cfl z370 mobo's will come with 24 pcie lanes iso 16 so there is at least something to be gained even if it is minor.

With SLI/Crossfire on the way out, what exactly are those lanes good for in a gaming rig?

[Kagthul]

NVMe storage, for one thing.

[Denpepe]

With SLI/Crossfire on the way out, what exactly are those lanes good for in a gaming rig?

NVMe drives, Gigabit ethernet or optane memory come to mind, also on the way out does not mean not used anymore, it's still supported.

[Lathais]

NVMe drives, Gigabit ethernet or optane memory come to mind, also on the way out does not mean not used anymore, it's still supported.

Yeah, I guess a few people will actually use it.

[Sorshen]

Optane is a gimmick. Expensive and close to useless.

[mrgreenthump]

With SLI/Crossfire on the way out, what exactly are those lanes good for in a gaming rig?

But but... Numbers! They are important.

Anywho, yes it's hard to argue anyone actually needs more than 16 lanes of PCI-E Lanes. At least till we get much faster GPUs, which are probably still quite far away. One could be using 2 NVME and 1 really really high power GPU, but even then, when are you actually using both to such degree it saturates the lanes? I can't think of a workload a mainstream consumer would use. Even 10 Gigabit ethernet is a bit iffy of a reason, because what would anyone gain from it, gamers really don't use really high end home networks that would gain from it.

[Lathais]

But but... Numbers! They are important.

Anywho, yes it's hard to argue anyone actually needs more than 16 lanes of PCI-E Lanes. At least till we get much faster GPUs, which are probably still quite far away. One could be using 2 NVME and 1 really really high power GPU, but even then, when are you actually using both to such degree it saturates the lanes? I can't think of a workload a mainstream consumer would use. Even 10 Gigabit ethernet is a bit iffy of a reason, because what would anyone gain from it, gamers really don't use really high end home networks that would gain from it.

Yeah, that's my point, if you are a gamer and do happen to be running SLI/XFire, then 16 is enough. If you also add an NVMe drive, I still think the lanes would not be saturated at that point and you'd be fine. I guess if you were running SLI, multiple NVMe Drives AND Optane Memory(which isn't that pretty pointless if you already have SSDs?) AND Gigabit ethernet, while in a game and writing to multiple drives while transferring lots of stuff over a network at the same time you MIGHT saturate 16 lanes.

But there are the numbers. Bigger numbers = bigger e-peen = more interwebz pointz.

[Karon]

But but... Numbers! They are important.

Anywho, yes it's hard to argue anyone actually needs more than 16 lanes of PCI-E Lanes. At least till we get much faster GPUs, which are probably still quite far away. One could be using 2 NVME and 1 really really high power GPU, but even then, when are you actually using both to such degree it saturates the lanes? I can't think of a workload a mainstream consumer would use. Even 10 Gigabit ethernet is a bit iffy of a reason, because what would anyone gain from it, gamers really don't use really high end home networks that would gain from it.

two 1080ti + 960 evo for example

[Life-Binder]

With SLI/Crossfire on the way out, what exactly are those lanes good for in a gaming rig?

NVMe SSDs if you want to upgrade to those instead of SATA SSDs






at the very least this confirms that 8700K will be a 95W



so Z370 is a Z270 refresh and Z390 is the new one (Cannonlake PCH)

Z390 should definitely support the later 10+ nm Ice Lake then, unsure about Z370

[Denpepe]

Yeah, that's my point, if you are a gamer and do happen to be running SLI/XFire, then 16 is enough. If you also add an NVMe drive, I still think the lanes would not be saturated at that point and you'd be fine. I guess if you were running SLI, multiple NVMe Drives AND Optane Memory(which isn't that pretty pointless if you already have SSDs?) AND Gigabit ethernet, while in a game and writing to multiple drives while transferring lots of stuff over a network at the same time you MIGHT saturate 16 lanes.

But there are the numbers. Bigger numbers = bigger e-peen = more interwebz pointz.

While 16 might be enough if you could individually acces them but the GPU will use 16 or 8 or is some edge cases 4 an NVMe drive will use 4 so if you want a GPU running on 16 lanes you are basically out of lanes on a mobo with 16 lanes and will use additional ones brought by an additional chip. hence why most z170 and 270 boards need to disable sata ports if you use an NVMe drive.

Now I know, for most people this is not an issue at all and they are fine with what is currently available but as with everything, it's nice to have it if you do need it.

[Lathais]

While 16 might be enough if you could individually acces them but the GPU will use 16 or 8 or is some edge cases 4 an NVMe drive will use 4 so if you want a GPU running on 16 lanes you are basically out of lanes on a mobo with 16 lanes and will use additional ones brought by an additional chip. hence why most z170 and 270 boards need to disable sata ports if you use an NVMe drive.

Now I know, for most people this is not an issue at all and they are fine with what is currently available but as with everything, it's nice to have it if you do need it.

I guess there is some small segment that will use it, it just seems like it's rather pointless to most people.

[Sorshen]

The Z370/Z390 pch seems like a fucking disaster to me. Broadwell did the same shit, but at least it was pretty clear early on that there's no point in buying it cause Skylake+DDR4 was 2 months away.
2017 is not a great year for intel at all. Holding off till 2018 seems like the smart thing to do (or just get the r5 1600/r7 1700 now and have no regrets).

[Life-Binder]

I will wait till Ice Lake, but 8700K is looking like a beast for gaming, 4.3 Ghz boost for 6 cores, 4.7 for 1 core, and 4MB more L3 cache than 7700K


hopefully 10+ nm CPUs can at least match 14++ nm CPUs in pure performance

if not then will need to wait for 10++ nm Tiger Lake

[Evildeffy]

I will wait till Ice Lake, but 8700K is looking like a beast for gaming, 4.3 Ghz boost for 6 cores, 4.7 for 1 core, and 4MB more L3 cache than 7700K

hopefully 10+ nm CPUs can at least match 14++ nm CPUs in pure performance

if not then will need to wait for 10++ nm Tiger Lake

Unlikely since other sources, like Guru3D are still reporting the earlier leak to be the clock speeds.

You have to consider power envelopes and again from a practical PoV it's highly unlikely for Intel to have increased power efficiency by 60%+ to afford your hopeful clocks from Kaby Lake whilst remaining on the same uArch and same 14nm process.

It would of course be nice but it's highly unlikely.

[Hellshout]

Regardless if pin-out choices may be different on retail, the socket is the same, the number of pin-outs is the same and the number of connected pins are the same.
The only reason for this is greed, pure and simple.

Having said that you miss out on features the new chipset MIGHT offer that the old one doesn't have but that's unlikely to be a major reason.
Because if that were the case X299 wouldn't have Kaby Lake-X f.ex.

As for the latter part... not happening, there's a physical physics wall (HAH!) with current technology, can't reach 10GHz without requiring a nuclear power plant and a dedicated house converted into a heatsink for cooling that 10GHz CPU.

I.E. Multi-Core is the only way (for the forseeable future) to continue performance increases.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...=#6dcbe7a63630

It's official.
Well I was exaggerating of course with the 10 GHz but it would be nice in the future to go for more IPC than cores, though I think it's easier to add more cores at lower clocks then to get 2 cores to high clocks. Makes it easier for game devs also...
WoW is the last frontier of nowadays gaming that doesn't need all these fancy hexa octa deca milliona cores. Staying true to the legacy Blizzard.

[Lathais]

WoW is the last frontier of nowadays gaming that doesn't need all these fancy hexa octa deca milliona cores. Staying true to the legacy Blizzard.

That is flat out not true. Even BF1, which is known for it's ability to make use of more cores, still runs fine on Dual-Cores.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-benc...5-i7-fx/page-2

Even on an i3, on the most standard monitor in the market, 1080p@60hz, not going to be seeing a difference between that i3 and a 7700k.