[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[ItachiZaku]

Now since I seen this leaked episode I am utterly and totally pissed.....at blizzard for not making Warcraft look like this! Damn that was an awesome episode.

Truth. A lot of nimrods will cry about how you can't compare things like this and that it is its own thing blah blah, well, no. Not at all. It's the price you pay for diving into a genre that is exactly in line with Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones. If you do it, you better do it right or you'll come out looking like pure trash, which is exactly what the warcraft movie was.

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Tbh if Danny dies, they would rape n pillage the entire continent...

Yep, they sure would. Jaime killing Dany saves the kingdom from this massive Unsullied/Dothraki/Stark army... so that's not that idiotic. However, you would then have 100,000 dothraki leaderless that'll annihilate everything.

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Pretty sure it does have a chapter about light cavalry charging a braced shield wall, in that it's pointless suicide. Western knights didn't armor themselves and their horses from head to toe just for show.

Usually, yes. Not so much in this case. The Lannister/Reach army was clearly scared, even more so when the dragon came down and lit them on fire. Some of the initial Horse vs Shield were stopped, but not all, not with so many of them getting through the dragon rape gap. Their arrows were also getting through causing some breaches. That was one of the worse shield walls I've seen. I wouldn't be able to hold up knowing there was a dragon around.

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Diving out of the way of dragon fire at just the right moment.

It kinda feels like he should have gotten there are the perfect time to knock Jaime out of the way AND get cooked himself. Seeing as he lost his gold and any chance at a castle, he "did the wrong thing, aka stupid as fuck thing" and tried to take down the dragon, it should have resulted in his death.

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If John and Dany get to make babies that would be so gross. Haha!

Midget babies.

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had they simply show him burning multiple gaps for the rest of the Dothraki to charge through, this would have been perfect. However, the mistake was having him burn only one gap. The rest of the riders simply smashing the shield wall by themselves with almost no casualties or issues.

Didn't have time, and if there was time, they would've been able to kill A gap or two anyways, or adjust the whole thing. And they did have quite a few casualties, but when they were slamming against the shield wall, it was already breached by fire, arrows and a clearly phased Lannister/Reach army. Under normal circumstances, sure. Not here. Not with these clearly scared "men".

[Ilikegreenfire]

snip

Their formation was also way too thing for the shield wall to be effective.

[pateuvasiliu]

I still wonder how people think that burning alive innocent conscripted boys that are just hauling goods and hoping to go home is somehow better than burning alive innocent NOT conscripted boys.


Daenerys is a mad fuck who invades a continent just because 22 years ago her father was a shit king who got killed.


I don't see how anyone can sympathise with her. Putting her next to Jon shows how much of a child she is.

[ItachiZaku]

my only hangup with the episode was why Dany didn't take all 3 dragons. they would have decimated everyone

Yeah, everyone. Dany would have lost a nice bit of Dothraki from friendly fire, which is why the other two need Night's King to ride one and probably Jon (but should by Ty cuz Johnny can actually fight).

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How is it more humane for Dany to attack a large army and destroy the largest grain supply in Westeros than it is for her to fly to the Red Keep and kill Cersei?

Nothings more tactical than complaining about losing all your resources and promptly using your dragon to burn all of those resources.

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Except the Tyrels were not her enemies. They were her allies. She made them her enemies when she blew up almost their entire family.

Olenna killed Joffy well before that.

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Their formation was also way too thing for the shield wall to be effective.

Yep, worse shield wall ever.

[Jimmy Woods]

Of course Arya recognizes littlefinger, she even brings him up by name asking what he is doing there, and of course he recognizes her. Brann's chaos is a ladder line means he has been looking into him, his days are numbered. He will probably tell Arya exactly how Lf betrayed ned and that's how Arya will kill him.

I don't get how Littlefinger betrayed Ned. He tried to help Ned. Ned was an idiot that didn't listen to him. If anything, the Stark's may be rightfully mad at Littlefinger for helping Lyssa kill her husband and blaming it on the Lannisters.

3) So, does Arya recognize Littlefinger from her time at Harrenhal as Tywin's serving girl? More importantly, does LF recognize her? AFAIK, LF never really knew the Stark girls when they were in KL, which is why the scene with Tywin could happen without her being recognized. But is he suddenly afraid that Tywin's serving girl is now out in the open as Arya Stark? I think it's a given she knows he's a fishy piece of shit, but is it possible the master planner has let this little detail slip him? It'll be a truly ignominious end for him in that case. It wasn't clear at all in the episode, but both characters do have a reason to potentially play it close to the vest.

Yes, Littlefinger 100% recognized Arya at Harrenhall. He tells Sansa that he saw her alive back in Season 3.

It doesn't make sense to me how people who like the Starks can hate Littlefinger.
- Littlefinger tried to help Ned keep his head, but his dumbassery didn't listen and got himself killed.
- Littlefinger recognized Arya at Harrenhall and only told Sansa.
- During same conversation where he tells her about Arya she asks him to get her back to Winterfell, which he eventually does.
- Littlefinger saves Jon's life in the battle for Winterfell.
- Indirectly Littlefinger's brokered alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters led to Joffrey casting Sansa aside for Margaery. People are so mad about how Ramsay treated Sansa as if Joffrey would've been a better husband. Of course w/o the alliance Stannis probably would've took King's Landing and who knows Sansa's fate.


If a Stark is to kill Littlefinger the only reason I could think of would be once he learns of Bran's powers he tries to take advantage of them for his own gain and that leads to him betraying the Starks. Otherwise it would be out of stupidity, but stupidity and Starks do go hand in hand.

[Logwyn]

I still wonder how people think that burning alive innocent conscripted boys that are just hauling goods and hoping to go home is somehow better than burning alive innocent NOT conscripted boys.

Oh of these people finally show up.. I guess you are ok with half a city getting burned alive too?

[tehealadin]

Just saw it, fucking loved it. I am willing to suspend my disbelief, the notion of geography going out of the window, the burning of precious supplies etc, because it was just to damned satisfying to watch.

[pateuvasiliu]

Oh of these people finally show up.. I guess you are ok with half a city getting burned alive too?

I'm not okay with anyone being burned alive.

I simply hate the idea that a conscripted peasant is somehow less innocent than a peasant who wasn't conscripted.

[Kellorion]

Where the hell has Ghost been? I know it's not cheap to reneed them, but still, not at the battle of the Bastards, haven't seen him or been mentioned at all. The wolves (Stark kids) have returned to Winterfell.

[xcess]

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Now that I had the chance to re-watch the battle in more detail, it occurs to me that there was a stroke of genius in the tactics used by Daenerys and her army.

Common military doctrine dictates that air attacks are wasted against dispersed ground troops. Ideally you want your enemies to cluster together, to take out large chunks of them at once with each strafing pass. But Cavalry (Like the Dothraki) are very good against dispersed infantry, or routing masses.

Therefore, their plan was to force the Lannister army into tight formation, creating a shield wall to face the Dothraki, and then unleash Drogon. The result is a pretty nasty choice for the the Lannister army: staying put in formation and be burned to cinders,or dispersing to avoid the same, which means becoming easy pickings for the Dothraki......

No she had a dragon, it can breathe fire all day, it was a waste of lives to send Dothraki in first, they could be the clean up crew. No one else bothered to jump on the Scorpion or maybe Bronn is only one with Infrared vision ?

[pateuvasiliu]

- Littlefinger tried to help Ned keep his head, but his dumbassery didn't listen and got himself killed.
- Littlefinger recognized Arya at Harrenhall and only told Sansa.
- During same conversation where he tells her about Arya she asks him to get her back to Winterfell, which he eventually does.
- Littlefinger saves Jon's life in the battle for Winterfell.
- Indirectly Littlefinger's brokered alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters led to Joffrey casting Sansa aside for Margaery.

Everything LF does he does for himself.

He tried to help Ned in hopes that Ned will claim power and LF would gain a strong position in Ned's court.

He brokered the Tyrell/Lannister Alliance to defeat Stannis and gain power himself ( he was named Lord of Harrenhal for it, which in turn allowed him to marry Lysa and gain power in the Vale )

He aided Jon in hopes of making the North his as well ( which failed and the PIS Littlefinger still stays in Winterfell for some reason ). Book Littlefinger would've probably killed both Jon's army and Ramsay's and then held the North himself. The people hated the Boltons so being the killer of the Boltons would be enough to make him better than Ramsay.


Plus everything that's gone wrong in this series was Littlefinger's doing.

He killed Jon Arryn, which resulted in Ned going South. He tricked Cat into thinking Tyrion sent Bran's assassin, which in turn started a war between the Lannisters and Tullys/Starks when Cat captured Tyrion and Tywin sent his troops in the Riverlands.

[Kuja]

Iirc Tarly said the gold was already inside kings landing, only the food got burned, given the only food the dothraki need is their horses and all their horses need is grazing lands, dany had no reason not to burn the caravans.

Oh, that would make more sense then.

[Frontenac]

Braavos has fought wars against cities for the purposes of stopping slavery. Many wars. The First Law of Braavos is that no one in their city would ever be their thrall. I find it hard to believe that they'd be ok with their bank investing in it.

I get that the bank wants its gold back that's fine. But I'm not sure why they would want to keep supporting Cersei. They do dislike dragonlords because dragonlords were the people who enslaved them.

I just think there's more to come with Braavos. Connection between the Faceless Men and the Bank, for example.

Braavos is not powerful enough to impose the abolition of slavery on Slavers Bay by force. It's too far away. Anyhow, Tycho Nestoris never confirms that the Iron Bank is investing directly in slavery. Cersei implies it, and Tycho answers "the slave trade has entered a downturn, it's true." It may mean that the Iron Bank has invested in slave trade, but maybe not. The slave trade was the backbone of Meereen, Yunkaï and Astapor. With the abolition of slavery, all the trades that depended on it or profited from it suffered too. Trades in which the Iron Bank may have invested. It also means that commerce between Braavos and Slavers Bay has suffered. The bank may have invested in merchant ships who were unable to sell their goods in Meereen or Yunkaï. Either way, the abolition of slavery would have had an impact on these money grabbing bankers.

[Khadgar]

Anyone catch Bran's mention of "chaos is a ladder" back to S3?

[Dug]

Interesting that she even went against Jons advice in using the dragons. Civilians sure avoid em but using the dragons period is going to turn people against her since the soldiers die in such a brutal and agonizing way

[Valysar]

Where does the battle take place ? Seems weird because Kings Landing is not so far of Dragonstone, nobody saw Drogon or thousands of Dothrakis ? hum

Interesting that she even went against Jons advice in using the dragons.

He says not to attack Kings Landing I think

[Grimbold21]

Where the hell has Ghost been? I know it's not cheap to reneed them, but still, not at the battle of the Bastards, haven't seen him or been mentioned at all. The wolves (Stark kids) have returned to Winterfell.

Like i wrote a few pages back, after this episode i guess we know where most of the budget went into

[Daara]

I don't get how Littlefinger betrayed Ned. He tried to help Ned. Ned was an idiot that didn't listen to him. If anything, the Stark's may be rightfully mad at Littlefinger for helping Lyssa kill her husband and blaming it on the Lannisters.

I guess you're just forgetting the part where Littlefinger was suppose to gain the backing of the city guard for Ned since Joffrey was illegitimate? Cersei tears up the paper saying that Ned would rule until "the rightful heir" comes of age. Then Littlefinger who pays the city guard has them turn and kill Ned's men? Yeah, didn't betray Ned at all.

[Delaios]

Olenna killed Joffy well before that.

Didn't they blame Tyrion/Sansa for that? I mean that's what Tyrion was sent to jail for after all.

[Elim Garak]

So I'm really confused with this whole Littlefinger situation. He claims to have loved Catelyn with every ounce of his being, but puts her into the line of fire, manipulates and lies to her face, and then goes and helps poison Joffrey in revenge for her murder. I don't get him.

I mean did he really love her or what?

And is it safe to assume Littlefinger is the one who sent the assassin after Bran? I remember something about Joffrey being the one in the books, but since he's dead I can't really see them bringing him into it.

He loved her, but she was a lost cause so he switched to a younger Cat. Sansa. Still he loved the old one and revenge makes sense. People in love do stupid shit.