Google fires diversity critic

[zenkai]

I only skimmed it but what I saw, that guy was a dumbass, he started out with some good points but then went full on sexist. I have worked with many woman who are nothing like he thinks they are and who would I hire over many men based on their drive and qualifications.

We should definitely hire people based on their qualifications not because of their gender or race.

[ro9ue]

I do not think I am actually disagreeing with the 50/50 thing... I am just saying there are more tactful ways of saying what he said. To me, personally, I understand what he is trying to say... but if I pass it through different cultural lenses, I can see why some people would take offense to it, especially because this is still such a contentious issue.

I think we're on the same page, but one last point - I can see why someone would draw an emotional conclusion from just reading the headlines about this memo or skimming through it, but that doesn't mean I feel that reaction has any merit.

I'm actually not sure how much more tactful you could get. It's not like he typed a rage-filled rant. It seemed pretty collected. Truth be told, in our political discourse, I don't think it's he who needs to have more tact, I think it's people on the other side of this conversation who need to be a little less defensive.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm viewing this pretty logically.

[Dextroden]

Because if you want to communicate well you have to consider your audience. I am not actually fine when eugenics is brought up in almost every discussion about genetic modification. But I can understand why people would bring that up. It is not like we have not had this happen, and when it did all the horrible things it brought.

Not freaking out about it though, and tactfully discussing why this is *NOT* like eugenics, tends to work better than name calling, or being abusive to the person.

What name did he call people? In comparison, he has now been deemed a person who hates minorities and women.

Welcome to what happened with all other activism. Any questioning of it is an act only villains would perform.

[jibberbox85]

Just like men thinking with their dicks all the time. See what I did there?

There're cases where men have filed up due to sexual harassment in the workplace, but do you know what some of the defense notions were? That men enjoy women who advance sexually on them while women typically don't prefer it. So in other words, it's a double standard for sexual harassment with those kind of cases.

[Dug]

Maybe I skimmed over it but he seems to harp on too much about the biological factor. Psychologically I don't disagree that there are some inherent differences but I feel like those are a product of society and how we raise men and women and not directly a matter of biology. And his solutions to addressing these differences just seem like they'd do more harm than good in the long run. Any particular job shouldn't change how it functions depending on the gender of the person doing it. Doesn't seem efficient at all.

[Dextroden]

Well, I agree, to me, emotions themselves are irrelevant... I just care if it's true or false... how you feel about it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, or secondary if I am dealing with someone I like (in which case I am going to rehearse the best/tactful way of saying it).

I think from Google's point of view they know that most people would not feel the same way. It would have been a PR nightmare... And really, it already is... because now they pissed off a lot of conservatives... it was a no win situation, I am not sure what they could have done differently.

If I were writing something like that, I would probably have worded it knowing it would probably be ready by the general public that are highly emotional. And be less about why women (or men) can't (or are not as good as) do something, and instead focus on the stupidity of quota system/ arbitrarily diversity, which I think was his real point.

People should not be hired because they are men or women, but because they are good at their jobs, or have the right skillset for the job, etc.

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I am not saying he did... I am just saying that message is important... or how something looks...

There is an observation I need to keep reminding myself of (because I myself am horrible at it) : "how people respond to you is based 70% on how you look, 20% on how you sound, and 10% on what you say." This is just social psychology.

If that's true, sounds like people are more than likely responding to the 70% part of it where he's a man. Hence people talking about bros and such. And some people like you got wrapped up in tone over message.

[Wuuzikli]

Well it's probably true that their business needs more diversity. And that black people, Mexican people can succeed just as the rest. As well as women can do anything they put their mind to. It really is not a problem, it's the god damn fucked up establishment.

[Beardedfreak]

It'd be a nicer place to work if they fired all the conservatives.

All the conservatives I know are, frankly, jerks.

Liberals are brain-dead morons.


[Infracted]

[BananaHandsB]

If you are unaware, a few days ago there was a controversy sweeping Twitter regarding a leaked internal memo written by a Google engineer who wrote a manifesto complaining about Google's efforts to increase diversity in its workforce.

The employee complained that conservatives were either ignored or ridiculed, that there is a liberal bias and that women are biologically unsuitable for certain technical roles. This created a shit storm with Google's vice president for diversity (seriously) condemning the memo telling employees that these views will not be tolerated and the author of the document would be tracked down and disciplined.

Right wing bloggers were outraged saying the author is entitled to view his opinions regardless of how controversial they are. The author was being held up as a hero of free speech and anti PC.

Of course Google tracked down the author and promptly fired him. So much for free speech and freedom of views. Diversity is not diversity when everyone has to sing from the same song sheet and individual thought is forbidden.

Story here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...diversity-memo

Full story backdrop here:
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/08/e...lly-at-google/

Adding direct link to manifesto:
http://diversitymemo.com/
(thanks Archmage BloodElf4Life)

People don't understand how free speech works. He's free to say what he wants, and google is free to fire him. All free speech means is the government can't jail him (or worse) for his thoughts/opinions, not that google has to let their employees say whatever they want without repercussion. If you're going to trash talk your own company, chances are, you're getting fired.

[Elegiac]

People don't understand how free speech works. He's free to say what he wants, and google is free to fire him. All free speech means is the government can't jail him (or worse) for his thoughts/opinions, not that google has to let their employees say whatever they want without repercussion.

It's amusing how free speech has gone from "people should be free to make political statements without fear of government reprisal" to "I should be free to be a massive asshole without any consequence".

South Park conservatism at its finest.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

If that's true, sounds like people are more than likely responding to the 70% part of it where he's a man. Hence people talking about bros and such. And some people like you got wrapped up in tone over message.

Connal does bring an interesting point, however.

The message is mostly good and he ends-up agreeing with a large portion of it, mostly against quotas and forced percentages.

His point is more about the fact that the message, while carrying an ideology that should be debated, is done in a way that can easily be shut down. Making a point by attacking something that is mostly monopolized by some groups right now is a good way to get shut down, even if presented with evidence.

[Dextroden]

Connal does bring an interesting point, however.

The message is mostly good and he ends-up agreeing with a large portion of it, mostly against quotas and forced percentages.

His point is more about the fact that the message, while carrying an ideology that should be debated, is done in a way that can easily be shut down. Making a point by attacking something that is mostly monopolized by some groups right now is a good way to get shut down, even if presented with evidence.

Then I ask. Shouldn't have gay activists been quiet and polite since they were working against the societal norm? Does the guy who got canned for an aggressive pro gay rant during work in the wrong ten years ago when it was normal to not be pro gay?

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It's amusing how free speech has gone from "people should be free to make political statements without fear of government reprisal" to "I should be free to be a massive asshole without any consequence".

South Park conservatism at its finest.

You mean like the free speech to piss on the American Flag being met with the free speech of complaining about it?

[Krastyn]

People don't understand how free speech works. He's free to say what he wants, and google is free to fire him. All free speech means is the government can't jail him (or worse) for his thoughts/opinions, not that google has to let their employees say whatever they want without repercussion. If you're going to trash talk your own company, chances are, you're getting fired.

He's not protected by the first amendment but he still has a decent case at wrongful dismissal.

[Jibjub]

"There are NO differences between men and women!"

There are more women in nursing and teaching. "It's because women are more nurturing than men. But don't you DARE say that men are more naturally inclined to a profession than women."

There are more men doing dirty work like garbage pickup and mining, oh and 93% of work-related deaths are men. "It's because, uhm, er...men are... I can't say stronger..."

Just like with Gorillas and male silverbacks, it's plausible that there are jobs that men are better suited for than women. "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA."

The mental acrobats it takes to be liberal these days is incredible. They all at once worship Science as if it were their god, while totally ignoring science when it doesn't fit their narrative.

Here's the thing. There are things called "general truths" and universal truths" and I don't know why liberals can't understand the difference. GENERALLY speaking, men are more interested and therefore usually are more successful in STEM. This is not UNIVERSAL. Women CAN like STEM and they CAN do wonderfully in the field. There are tons of examples. But GENERALLY, women are not as interested ... and I think it's pretty clearly biological. Just like GENERALLY, women are biologically better suited for raising children and therefore more nurturing rolls. This doesn't mean all women MUST do these roles and it doesn't mean men can't.

Anyone who has spent time with a man and a woman knows there are huge differences between the two and THANK GOD that there are.

[Deleted]

Not to mention, a memo like this would serve as a signal to HR that this type of person could hold more radical views deemed dangerous to the workforce.

Dangerous ideas like:

"Treat people as individuals"
"Change the work culture to attract more diverse candidates instead of just enforcing quotas"



Spotting people in this thread that haven't read the memo - in its original, unaltered, non blog-site "leak" form - is like shooting fish in a barrel.

This guy is a liberal. I would even assume he calls himself a feminist, based on the document. "Journalists" have been entirely dishonest on this one, lying about it by omission and misrepresenting his arguments.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Then I ask. Shouldn't have gay activists been quiet and polite since they were working against the societal norm? Does the guy who got canned for an aggressive pro gay rant during work in the wrong ten years ago when it was normal to not be pro gay?

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You mean like the free speech to piss on the American Flag being met with the free speech of complaining about it?

You're also right. We shouldn't just do nothing and let this behavior fester. But what can be done? He did what he could, he got canned because of it.

The only thing we can do is to be persistent with it. Keep it in the open and not let it be burried under a ton of garbage by people who'd rather destroy reality and facts than face it.

But that's hard to do, when hate groups uses whatever they can to burry the left. This memo is incredibly well thought. But I assure you that with the alt-right using it right now to push their own agenda, it's going to lose credibility.

We live in a society of fallacies.

[Stormspellz]

Unemployment is never a happy occasion. It occurring due to wrong-think only makes this a more disagreeable outcome.

but this isn't a case of "wrong think" and more like a case of wrong behavior

[Dug]

If we followed his logic would not asians be "biologically" better at mathematics/sciences compared to west? Culture is what should be addressed.

[Deleted]

If we followed his logic would not asians be "biologically" better at mathematics/sciences compared to west? Culture is what should be addressed.

He wants to address the culture, derp. Read the fucking document.

[Dextroden]

You're also right. We shouldn't just do nothing and let this behavior fester. But what can be done? He did what he could, he got canned because of it.

The only thing we can do is to be persistent with it. Keep it in the open and not let it be burried under a ton of garbage by people who'd rather destroy reality and facts than face it.

But that's hard to do, when hate groups uses whatever they can to burry the left. This memo is incredibly well thought. But I assure you that with the alt-right using it right now to push their own agenda, it's going to lose credibility.

We live in a society of fallacies.

The alt right are going to use it because it was handed to them. If the message of the firing had been "Don't break the for of conduct" purely, I could right this guy off as having good ideas but he broke an office rule. Once the public called for the firing and Google turned it into a politics thing, all the groundwork is done.

And again, I point you to how this guy is now a racist somehow. You know what happens when people get thrown off the racist cliff? They turn on the people that threw them off it. And, sometimes, become friends with the people at the bottom.

You have to remember. The kind of people at Google are probably the same kind of people that didn't realize calling people deplorable doesn't make them want to be allies.

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He wants to address the culture, derp. Read the fucking document.

He did read. He read what other people who didn't read it said.