[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Captain Douchebag]

Guess they ran out of money for special fx, look at the wildling with the spear lul saved money on some wights

That's actually hillarious. I completely missed that when I watched it.

2017 air-stabbing champion right there.

[-aiko-]

I mean.....

I know it's annoying for people who love an episode to hear the complainers complain but there were too many things this episode that made me shake my head. I can't just not talk about it.

- The entire lake scene was a disaster
- Poor choreography in the fight scenes (lol at that air spear action)
- I'm sorry but there's no way for a raven to reach Dany that fast and for her to respond that fast
- NK trying out for the olympics with that perfect spear throw
- Soooo much plot armor
- Arya/Sansa scenes seemed like forced drama
- Too many cliches like Dany/Benjen arriving right on time, and Jon conveniently showing up half-dead before they leave

I could continue going but there's no point making a nitpick list in the end, I suppose.

I know it makes for an interesting TV show, and yes I did enjoy the episode, it's just not the story I fell in love with when I first started reading the books. I know GRRM gave the writers the ending, and probably some major plot points, but D&D are not doing a good job filling in the blanks. Get to work on finishing your damn series, Georgie. My poor heart can't take this anymore.

[Deleted]

I love how Game of Thrones has hit that point where instead of people enjoying the show they'll just rip it to shreds instead.

Atleast we know it ends next season so you lot can go not enjoy watching something else.

[RobertoCarlos]

Snip

I'm just disappointed how predictable its all gotten. That was originally the big hook for me along with the characters of course. Not knowing what will happen next. The ending is being rushed theres no escaping that fact. Even if we get some nice battles along the way and reunions we've waited seasons for....it just feels like a microwave meal instead of the sunday roast it should be.

[Ilikegreenfire]

I mean.....

I know it's annoying for people who love an episode to hear the complainers complain but there were too many things this episode that made me shake my head. I can't just not talk about it.

- The entire lake scene was a disaster
- Poor choreography in the fight scenes (lol at that air spear action)
- I'm sorry but there's no way for a raven to reach Dany that fast and for her to respond that fast
- NK trying out for the olympics with that perfect spear throw
- Soooo much plot armor
- Arya/Sansa scenes seemed like forced drama
- Too many cliches like Dany/Benjen arriving right on time, and Jon conveniently showing up half-dead before they leave

I could continue going but there's no point making a nitpick list in the end, I suppose.

I know it makes for an interesting TV show, and yes I did enjoy the episode, it's just not the story I fell in love with when I first started reading the books. I know GRRM gave the writers the ending, and probably some major plot points, but D&D are not doing a good job filling in the blanks. Get to work on finishing your damn series, Georgie. My poor heart can't take this anymore.

The entire lake scene was a trap the night king set in motion years ago, so he could get a dragon.

Hes an unskilled red shirt trying to keep them at bay, who promptly dies.

Messenger ravens in asioiaf are a special breed of super raven

Most ravens will eat grain, but they prefer flesh. It makes them strong, and I fear they relish the taste of blood. In that they are like men ... and like men, not all ravens are alike. Doves and pigeons can also be trained to carry messages, though the raven is a stronger flyer, larger, bolder, far more clever, better able to defend itself against hawks ... yet ravens are black, and they eat the dead, so some godly men abhor them.

In Great Britain distances of over 723 miles have been flown on the day, by pigeons flying home from Nantes in western France to Fraserburgh in Scotland. Released at 0600 hrs in the morning the birds have been timed in their lofts before 10.00 at night. …

The night king is an ice mage using and ice spear.

Agin the the night king planned this whole episode for years so he could get a dragon, he attacked because Dany was close, not becasue of the hounds rock throwing, the lake could have been frozen for hours prior.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm...ns_and_a_king/

Dany was waiting specifically for him.

[Deleted]

People complaining that the show used to be unpredictable, surely if it carries that on for long enough, its unpredictability becomes, predictable?

You can't just carry a show on the idea of going against established tropes, because eventually that's what is expected and you end up back where you started.

[eschatological]

I thought the small sized group of the army of the undead they found was more glaring just perfect for catching one. And only 1 survives after they kill the white walker leader. Pretty lucky odds

I'm willing to believe that was a trap set by the NK. It's too convenient that all but one wight in the party was turned by the head White Walker, allowing them the achievement of their goal so effortlessly. I'm, in fact, willing to say that everything from Hardhome on was planned by the NK, because it's the first time he sees Jon, and probably sees into him as well.

The only way this works, though, is if the NK is some sort of greenseer too. I wouldn't suggest Bran is the NK, but maybe the NK got some sort of 3ER power when he and Brann had their moment - which is why the 3ER was so pissed at Brann. After all, the NK seemed to sense the ravens and Brann's warging out of nowhere, really, and was able to scatter them with his fucking mind.


Of course, I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest events as far back as the Fist of the First Men, or what happened with Benjen, was planned by the NK. Both those events entirely countered the NK's agenda. Most importantly, Sam's survival led to the discovery of the one thing that could kill the Night King and a location of a hoard of it.

[RobertoCarlos]

People complaining that the show used to be unpredictable, surely if it carries that on for long enough, its unpredictability becomes, predictable?

You can't just carry a show on the idea of going against established tropes, because eventually that's what is expected and you end up back where you started.

What a load of nonsense. They clearly have specific plot markers to meet with very little wiggle room or time left because they are ending the show early so they have to churn it out and hope for the best. And the scope of the battles means resources are pushed even tighter and the quality of the non epic moments suffers. This season has been forgettable when you look past the last 2 episodes. Its basically just been dany eye fucking Jon for half a season. And Samwell tarly lord of exposition

[RobertoCarlos]

Snip

Perhaps but the wight had to scream to alert the others of the ambush, if the hound had secured his mouth better they could have escaped unseen

It just dawned on me....The hound is finally going back to kings landing with the wight isnt he.

Where he'll see his brother....

[Alvito]

He could have used ghost when they went north of the wall, probably would have died to the bear but you know..better than chilling at winterfell out of sight literally.

Im surprised Jorah and Beric survived

Also lol @ Euron being the big bad for the season. All he did was burn peoples ships in 2 episodes

That would have meant he had to go all the way back to Winterfel then back to East Watch.

[Ilikegreenfire]

I'm willing to believe that was a trap set by the NK. It's too convenient that all but one wight in the party was turned by the head White Walker, allowing them the achievement of their goal so effortlessly. I'm, in fact, willing to say that everything from Hardhome on was planned by the NK, because it's the first time he sees Jon, and probably sees into him as well.

The only way this works, though, is if the NK is some sort of greenseer too. I wouldn't suggest Bran is the NK, but maybe the NK got some sort of 3ER power when he and Brann had their moment - which is why the 3ER was so pissed at Brann. After all, the NK seemed to sense the ravens and Brann's warging out of nowhere, really, and was able to scatter them with his fucking mind.


Of course, I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest events as far back as the Fist of the First Men, or what happened with Benjen, was planned by the NK. Both those events entirely countered the NK's agenda. Most importantly, Sam's survival led to the discovery of the one thing that could kill the Night King and a location of a hoard of it.

He stops Bran's ravens in ep 5 and sees Bran in his visions in season 6 so ya he is a greenseer and a warg. Both those powers are linked to first men blood, of which the nigh king is/was, it might be the magic behind how he controls corpses some king of ice super warg

The thing is night king doesn't care if they know how to kill him, if hes trapped behind the wall it doesn't matter if no one can take him down, he needed a dragon to melt part of the wall, to do that he need to use Jon as a trap for Dany, to do that he needed Jon and Dany to meet and fall in love, to do that he needed Sam to know the importance of dragonglass and find the deposit, to do that he had to have Sam spared and have him kill a white walker.

[Alvito]

I'm just disappointed how predictable its all gotten. That was originally the big hook for me along with the characters of course. Not knowing what will happen next. The ending is being rushed theres no escaping that fact. Even if we get some nice battles along the way and reunions we've waited seasons for....it just feels like a microwave meal instead of the sunday roast it should be.

Since HBO took over the writting it seems like they are plugging in as many of the popular fan theories to please people.

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After all, the NK seemed to sense the ravens and Brann's warging out of nowhere, really, and was able to scatter them with his fucking mind.

When I first saw that it seems more like Bran saw him freaked out and lost control of the birds.

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I mean.....

I know it's annoying for people who love an episode to hear the complainers complain but there were too many things this episode that made me shake my head. I can't just not talk about it.

- The entire lake scene was a disaster
- Poor choreography in the fight scenes (lol at that air spear action)
- I'm sorry but there's no way for a raven to reach Dany that fast and for her to respond that fast
- NK trying out for the olympics with that perfect spear throw
- Soooo much plot armor
- Arya/Sansa scenes seemed like forced drama
- Too many cliches like Dany/Benjen arriving right on time, and Jon conveniently showing up half-dead before they leave

I could continue going but there's no point making a nitpick list in the end, I suppose.

I know it makes for an interesting TV show, and yes I did enjoy the episode, it's just not the story I fell in love with when I first started reading the books. I know GRRM gave the writers the ending, and probably some major plot points, but D&D are not doing a good job filling in the blanks. Get to work on finishing your damn series, Georgie. My poor heart can't take this anymore.

The very inconsistant traveling speed has been an issue since HBO went into unscripted territory with the story. Last season was lousy about it, this one isn't much better. They could do small things to hint at time passage so it didn't seem so absurd too.

[RobertoCarlos]

Since HBO took over the writting it seems like they are plugging in as many of the popular fan theories to please people.

Yeah they want to conveniently tie up all the loose ends and give satisfaction to the legends of fans. Use some lines repeated in earlier seasons so it looks like epic foreshadowing, and mirror encounters or character traits like sons acting like fathers and daughters acting like pro womans rights group 2k17 to make it look more deeper than it really is. When the source material is so rich, but not when you gloss over the political intrigue and steamroll through ignoring time, space and reality

[Ilikegreenfire]

Since HBO took over the writting it seems like they are plugging in as many of the popular fan theories to please people.

- - - Updated - - -



When I first saw that it seems more like Bran saw him freaked out and lost control of the birds.

- - - Updated - - -



The very inconsistant traveling speed has been an issue since HBO went into unscripted territory with the story. Last season was lousy about it, this one isn't much better. They could do small things to hint at time passage so it didn't seem so absurd too.

we deliberately hear two warging noises, one when the night king looks at the birds and one when bran's eyes go back, it was the night king, if it was bran there would only be one warg sound.

Nothing was inconsistent about the travel in the episode, Grrm made messenger ravens faster than messenger pigeons

In Great Britain distances of over 723 miles have been flown on the day, by pigeons flying home from Nantes in western France to Fraserburgh in Scotland. Released at 0600 hrs in the morning the birds have been timed in their lofts before 10.00 at night. …

The dragons are fast as fuck, we see this when dany swoops in at the loot train battle.

[Graeham]

I feel like there should have been an extra season. Potentially two. That would have allowed for Dorne and Highgarden to be explored more thoroughly as well as the Iron Islands. I do think the producers are just trying to end it as quickly as possible - hence cutting down the number of episodes and rushing through major events in a matter of minutes instead of giving them sufficient time to play out in a more satisfying manner.

[Alvito]

we deliberately hear two warging noises, one when the night king looks at the birds and one when bran's eyes go back, it was the night king, if it was bran there would only be one warg sound.

Nothing was inconsistent about the travel in the episode, Grrm made messenger ravens faster than messenger pigeons


The dragons are fast as fuck, we see this when dany swoops in at the loot train battle.

It isn't just bird flight speed. People are closing huge gaps in seemingly no time and have been over the last 2 seasons. Varus bouncing all over was the worst of it last season. Even in this episode though in no more then one day Gendry runs all the way back to the wall, they get the ravens out then Dany decides to go gets ready and leaves and find them in a place she has never been just guessing where they are at. Even if she had a map and easily got to East Watch, north of the wall isn't charted the same way and they weren't exactly going to a set spot she was flying blind from that point. Sure Gendry probably gave her the best info he could, but that means she stopped to talk to him and then went out with partial info into snow storms.

[Gully Man]

I can't really blame the show writers. They signed up to make an adaptation and six years after starting (when they started filming season6) GRRM still hadn't got a new book out. They probably didn't expect that and so have gone with the easiest way to keep the show and the majority of its fans happy and that's by playing up to fan service. I've no doubt the person to sit on the iron throne will be the same in the show as in the book but because they no longer have the source material I think the show version will end up being a bit cheerier and more to the fans liking.

[Ilikegreenfire]

It isn't just bird flight speed. People are closing huge gaps in seemingly no time and have been over the last 2 seasons. Varus bouncing all over was the worst of it last season. Even in this episode though in no more then one day Gendry runs all the way back to the wall, they get the ravens out then Dany decides to go gets ready and leaves and find them in a place she has never been just guessing where they are at.

Vary's trips took months we just don't see the travel time. Scenes play out over different periods of time.

We have no idea how far past the wall that lake was, it could have been only a few hours run, the party was hunting around for a wight not traveling strait in one direction.

Telling dany look for the Arrowhead mountain just past the wall north of eastwatch is all the direction she really needs.

[Skroe]

So I'm kinding thinking (and thought for a while), that the White Walker's control of the undead and warging are basically the same thing. A minor variation on the same theme.

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I can't really blame the show writers. They signed up to make an adaptation and six years after starting (when they started filming season6) GRRM still hadn't got a new book out. They probably didn't expect that and so have gone with the easiest way to keep the show and the majority of its fans happy and that's by playing up to fan service. I've no doubt the person to sit on the iron throne will be the same in the show as in the book but because they no longer have the source material I think the show version will end up being a bit cheerier and more to the fans liking.

Man I remember how there used to be articles written about how if GRRM released his books at a certain pace, wrote 200 pages a year, he'd finish the series before Season 7 came out.

And here we are, at the end of Season 6, and there's been a grand total of zero books.

Consider that the earlier seasons of the show were basically a second pass on the books (and the story often improved because of it), them having an all-meat, no-fat ending is more than fine.

The books are amazing, but, particularly with the Danyeris stuff, the show cleaned up a lot of gunk.

[Alvito]

Vary's trips took months we just don't see the travel time. Scenes play out over different periods of time.

We have no idea how far past the wall that lake was, it could have been only a few hours run, the party was hunting around for a wight not traveling strait in one direction.

Telling dany look for the Arrowhead mountain just past the wall north of east watch is all the direction she really needs.

With the way it overlaps other events going on the timelines are all moving at ever changing and alternate speeds. Twice he jumped from one continent to another in the same episode meanwhile anybody travelling that quickly takes months. Arya getting all over this season is another example.