"Alt Right" activist asks for Lenin Statue to be removed

[Felya]

Don't care about the statue, but I do find it ironic that the greatest argument for keeping it is the fact that it is private property. Poetic, really.

Not for me... the damn thing is there to ridicule, not celebrate. People do some bizarre things to it. Asking to remove it, is not asking to cut the influence of Lenin, it's asking us to stop mocking him. What's more demeaning? Taking a statue down, or having dozens of naked people, ride around it covered in paint once a year?

It's so reactionary and stupid, that it's counter to its own rhetoric.

[Chrysia]

Well Washington preserved Slavery just as much as Lee - The UK banned Slavery in 1812 IRC.

1833, and no, George Washington didn't fight in direct response to any abolitionist movement.

[Yarathir]

Not for me... the damn thing is there to ridicule, not celebrate. People do some bizarre things to it. Asking to remove it, is not asking to cut the influence of Lenin, it's asking us to stop mocking him. What's more demeaning? Taking a statue down, or having dozens of naked people, ride around it covered in paint once a year?

It's so reactionary and stupid, that it's counter to its own rhetoric.

Oh, it was more so a jab at communism and its view on 'private property'.

[Felya]

1833, and no, George Washington didn't fight in direct response to any abolitionist movement.

Which one held the American flag when fighting? That's all... move along...

[Chrysia]

Which one held the American flag when fighting? That's all... move along...

What? What point are you trying to make here?

[Felya]

Oh, it was more so a jab at communism and its view on 'private property'.

No, I gotcha... I just think they are incapable of thinking that far. It just got to... Lenin is liberals, must crush liberals, revenge for my fascist icons!... You are right, but they didn't even get to the part where they ask why the statue is there. It's a long road before getting to property rights debate. There is a lot of thought that they cannot get past, before reaching property rights. It's purpose should have been one of the first things to question and they failed to get even there.

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What? What point are you trying to make here?

Between Washington and Lee... only one held up the American flag. The idea of them being the same or even similar in relevance to America, is absurd. Lee fought against the American flag. When the north marched south with their flag drawn, Lee's army was shooting at them... they were shooting at the American flag... they were fighting America...

That argument is idiotic...

[draynay]

Isn't defending private property pretty much the opposite of Leninism and Stalinism?

I tried to make a joke about that earlier but it didn't fly. It isn't surprising when folks don't know what the image carved into a statue really represents beyond a few buzzwords.

[Grapemask]

Came back in here to see people actually trying to compare Washington monuments to confederate monuments.

[Felya]

Came back in here to see people actually trying to compare Washington monuments to confederate monuments.

Blame education... the expectations of American students are too low.

[josykay]

If they want the statue to be "removed" they can buy it, and do with it, what ever they want. And IMO they should be able to buy the confederate monuments, and place them into their lawn as well, if they want to. Win-Win. They got their monuments, monuments are gone from state grounds, and the state get's money. Everyone here wins.

[Chrysia]

If they want the statue tu be "removed" they can buy it, and do with it, what ever they want. And IMO they should be able to buy the confederate monuments, and place them into their lawn as well, if they want to. Win-Win. They got their monuments, monuments are gone from state grounds, and the state get's money. Everyone here wins.

Several of the Confederate monuments being removed through official channels are, in fact, up for sale.

[Deleted]

If you support the precursor to Soviet Communism you're a traitor to the US.

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It's all relative except for the stuff we think is really evil, like Nazis. Communism was just a different way of life, and the hatred against it only comes from Nazi propaganda.

The implementation of Communism resulted and results in mass murder.
Its by every possible metric worse than Nazism.

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1833, and no, George Washington didn't fight in direct response to any abolitionist movement.

Is 1865 after 1833?

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Between Washington and Lee... only one held up the American flag. The idea of them being the same or even similar in relevance to America, is absurd. Lee fought against the American flag. When the north marched south with their flag drawn, Lee's army was shooting at them... they were shooting at the American flag... they were fighting America...

That argument is idiotic...

You do know he fought for america too?
In fact he was offered a Union Command...

[Chrysia]

The implementation of Communism resulted and results in mass murder.
Its by every possible metric worse than Nazism.

Is 1865 after 1833?

Are you saying Nazism didn't result in mass murder?

1833 is after every major armed conflict between Britain and the United States. You can in no way accurately claim George Washington fought the British to preserve slavery.

[draynay]

You do know he fought for america too?
In fact he was offered a Union Command...

Do they build statues of Lee to honor his service as Captain of Engineers during the Mexican War?

[fengosa]

If they want the statue to be "removed" they can buy it, and do with it, what ever they want. And IMO they should be able to buy the confederate monuments, and place them into their lawn as well, if they want to. Win-Win. They got their monuments, monuments are gone from state grounds, and the state get's money. Everyone here wins.

Sorry but this isnt acceptable. We shouldnt be giving out participation trophies to the confederates.

[Deleted]

Are you saying Nazism didn't result in mass murder?

"It's all relative except for the stuff we think is really evil, like Nazis. Communism was just a different way of life, and the hatred against it only comes from Nazi propaganda."
- Communism is Evil.
Objectively.

1833 is after every major armed conflict between Britain and the United States. You can in no way accurately claim George Washington fought the British to preserve slavery.

No, I said that his actions led to the preservation of slavery for another 33 years.

[Chrysia]

"It's all relative except for the stuff we think is really evil, like Nazis. Communism was just a different way of life, and the hatred against it only comes from Nazi propaganda."
- Communism is Evil.
Objectively.


No, I said that his actions led to the preservation of slavery for another 33 years.

No, Stalinism is evil, objectively. Communism is value neutral, its implementation yields either positive or negative results.

Nazism, meanwhile, is objectively evil, but nationalism is value neutral. You can have positive nationalist policies, they just aren't likely to do you much good unless your country is entirely self-sufficient.

No, that's not what you said. You said George Washington preserved slavery just as much as Robert E. Lee.

[Noradin]

Supporting the private rights of citizens is equivalent to Stalinism now? What the actual fuck?

Raybourne does not believe in private rights of citizens

[Deleted]

No, Stalinism is evil, objectively. Communism is value neutral, its implementation yields either positive or negative results.

Communism has never yielded a positive result.
It's economical plans are fundamentally incompatible with reality, its execution requires the centralization of power, and the subornement of individuals into the collective, with no room for dissent.
It's still objectively evil.

Nazism, meanwhile, is objectively evil, but nationalism is value neutral. You can have positive nationalist policies, they just aren't likely to do you much good unless your country is entirely self-sufficient.

Yes, you are right, its only the Socialism that's bad in National Socialism.
That's not a cheap 'Nazis are left wing' jab - That's pointing out that Fascism is drawn from Socialism, and the disregard for the individual, and individual rights, is a thing they share.

No, that's not what you said. You said George Washington preserved slavery just as much as Robert E. Lee.

Yes.
Again, Slavery was on the ropes in the UK before the revolution, The US constitution codified slavery into its constitution - While the UK abolition movement scored it' first victory in 1772

Somerset v Stewart (1772) 98 ER 499 (aka Somersett's case, or in State Trials v.XX Sommersett v Steuart) is a famous judgment of the English Court of King's Bench in 1772, which held that chattel slavery was unsupported by the common law in England and Wales, although the position elsewhere in the British Empire was left ambiguous. Lord Mansfield decided that:

So again, UK common law held it to be illegal in 1772 - and only four years later the colonies, in a fit of rage at being asked to pay money for their own defense, rebelled.
And wrote in Slavery as a part of their constitution.

[Kraenen]

No, Stalinism is evil, objectively. Communism is value neutral, its implementation yields either positive or negative results.

What definition of Communism is value neutral?

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Raybourne does not believe in private rights of citizens

Hey, that isn't your stuff, it's all of our stuff. That's why you agreed to have me take it from you.

edit: I really don't see how anyone could've seen that original statement and taken it unironically.

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Are you saying Nazism didn't result in mass murder?

What are you actually saying here?