T20 vs T21 ilvls and bonuses - wtf?

[Khallid]

So .. I was simming around the tier bonuses, mainly because the T20 2 piece seems so be worth very much and according to my results, 4pc of T20 at 930 ilvl is actually better than 4pc of T21 at 960 ilvl. What is this bullshit, or are my sims wrong? Would be retarded to force into 2/4 pieces from last tier.

Also breaking the T20 2 piece seems to be worth only if the 2 pieces have +45-50 ilvl each.

Something seems very broken.

I know this is about DH, but other classes have kept using the Tier 19 2-piece during ToS. I'm worried about having to keep Tier 19 into Antorus.

It's very likely that tuning nerfs and/or buffs will happen when Antorus goes live, but so far tier bonuses have been pretty fucked up.

[lazzek]

I would highly recommend for everyone to run the numbers on this set themselves just to see how dire it is.
To make it even easier Raidbots has the ability to equip the new set pieces for comparisons.

Before I start I personally don't care if we are playing demonic or standard build I will play what ever is best but this set is abysmal for the class.

With the new stat changes to our set we are now looking at being forced into a lot of suboptimal stats mainly losing crit.
Now on the set, this bonus is not even good for a demonic build. The boost to eye beam damage means so little even to a demonic build as eye beam is not really there for damage but rather as just a catalyst to get into Demon form. Then a short boost to haste for demonic is extremely binary how much of a benefit it will produce, as to really gain much benefit you need to get an extra global in within the demonic window and with the amount of haste this provides the extra global won't always happen. As well as there is a good chance that even if you get an extra global you will have run out of fury to actually get another chaos strike within meta. Which instead would mean that the set bonus gives us an extra demons bite in our meta, yay? This set is also missing a fury generator like our previous two sets which will just lead to be starved even more.

I also want to bring up the fact that for us to play demonic as a main raid spec there would need to an increase in damage that the spec does. For single target demonic sims around 6.5% less damage then the standard build for me. Our new T21 set bonus will not make up this gap and losing potentially over 5% damage single target is not something I think this class can take right now.

From running my own comparisons of T20 mythic vs T21 (normal, heroic, and mythic) demonic. It is a downgrade to take T21 normal or heroic and we only start to see damage going up by taking T21 mythic. Well heroic is 945 ilvl and mythic is 960 base, so we are looking at only seeing a gain in dps once items are 30 ilvls above our current tier which at this point it means just raw stats are taking over.

[Night22]

Class tuning and pre-tier nerfs only happen after Raid Openings. But yea, statchanges look hard so.

[Otrew]

I jsut dont like demonic, arleady have al the havoc legs and right now im healing in my guild so maybe is time to change my main

[azurrei]

Seems like a good Tier to level with in the next expansion - demonic build is great for everything except single target raid encounters so seems fine to me...

[lazzek]

Seems like a good Tier to level with in the next expansion - demonic build is great for everything except single target raid encounters so seems fine to me...

Seeing posts like this is what I find frustrating more then anything. I feel like people who enjoy demonic hear that there is a set bonus that is more tailored for that play style and jump to the defence of the set. When the reality is this set bonus is not even that much of a benefit to a demonic build but rather just has a way of using the bonus where base build does not. I am perfectly fine if demonic is the build that we use for the final tier but it has to be a bonus that actually boosts the build in a substantial way.

[Guyv3r]

Did run a comparison in raidbots.

I lose 2.1% dps and gained a few ilvls... Sad really.

[ufta]

This is getting to the point where I'm becoming concerned. Not JUST concerned about being pushed into a playstyle that I loathe....but also the fact that our "best available" playstyle will be putting up absolutely abysmal numbers.

Raid night will be demon hunters and outlaw rogues playing rummy while survival hunters laugh at us and call us suckers.

[Deleted]

It doesn't seem as bad as BrMonks though. For them there is absolutely NO reason to equip T21 with 2+ targets and very marginal reason to use it for ST. I guess the T21 issue is rather cross-WoW than DH only.

[gcsmith]

This is getting to the point where I'm becoming concerned. Not JUST concerned about being pushed into a playstyle that I loathe....but also the fact that our "best available" playstyle will be putting up absolutely abysmal numbers.

Raid night will be demon hunters and outlaw rogues playing rummy while survival hunters laugh at us and call us suckers.

Hah, I'm already doing that, and only for asking why, on progress runs, no one is asking poeple to improve.

[Guyv3r]

What concerns me more is the fact that i want a mobile class and there are none compared to what DH can do.

I tried warrior and it's super boring. Monk not my thing..

[sosleapy]

Because I can't actually hit BNet at work...

My bad. Crit on almost all my pieces. It's really very easy when Shocklight is your best option in the crucible thanks to shitty rolls.

so are you still at work i am curious to see this as well. i mean hell you even could have just given name and realm too.

[gcsmith]

What concerns me more is the fact that i want a mobile class and there are none compared to what DH can do.

I tried warrior and it's super boring. Monk not my thing..

Indeed, I love the general feel of DH's so much more than other classes, but being bottom already and now going to be hard bottom. Crap set, crap stats... unless we get a complete redesign...

[felrager]

So .. I was simming around the tier bonuses, mainly because the T20 2 piece seems so be worth very much and according to my results, 4pc of T20 at 930 ilvl is actually better than 4pc of T21 at 960 ilvl. What is this bullshit, or are my sims wrong? Would be retarded to force into 2/4 pieces from last tier.

Also breaking the T20 2 piece seems to be worth only if the 2 pieces have +45-50 ilvl each.

Something seems very broken.

I'm wearing my PVP set on wowprogress right now because the ilvl is higher but my pve set doesn't even include the t20 set at all and i'm still breaking over a mil dps on every fight ST or MT (obviously MT is way higher). 931 ilvl with no set bonus and i'm stomping the charts in every PUG or guild raid i join. Top 3 dps every time. Not sure why everyone's screaming they need the tier set when i'm kicking their ass with M+ and TF relinquished gear. Just saying, it's possible to be good without the set bonuses.

[Enentari]

Or PUG you're playing with are simply bad

[kaelleria]

so are you still at work i am curious to see this as well. i mean hell you even could have just given name and realm too.

Down to 62% crit because I replaced a relic yesterday.... Add 2 more shocklight traits and I'd be up to 68%. If I had more gem slots I could also be higher. I currently have one.

https://i.imgur.com/TOgu6LK.jpg

My gear isn't even that great as my guild has been terribly mediocre since NH burnt out like everyone.

[sosleapy]

Down to 62% crit because I replaced a relic yesterday.... Add 2 more shocklight traits and I'd be up to 68%. If I had more gem slots I could also be higher. I currently have one.

https://i.imgur.com/TOgu6LK.jpg

My gear isn't even that great as my guild has been terribly mediocre since NH burnt out like everyone.

Why don't you just give armory link? I can't see nothing in the photo...why Block out name?

[Deleted]

Down to 62% crit because I replaced a relic yesterday.... Add 2 more shocklight traits and I'd be up to 68%. If I had more gem slots I could also be higher. I currently have one.

https://i.imgur.com/TOgu6LK.jpg

My gear isn't even that great as my guild has been terribly mediocre since NH burnt out like everyone.

Is this really a thing, counting your crit with all possible procs? That's like 10-15% above your normal crit...

[sosleapy]

Is this really a thing, counting your crit with all possible procs? That's like 10-15% above your normal crit...

i was thinking i could do the same thing on my crappy havoc set of gear too with procs...i sit at 50% as it is then when stuff procs i hit 60+

[Deleted]

Down to 62% crit because I replaced a relic yesterday.... Add 2 more shocklight traits and I'd be up to 68%. If I had more gem slots I could also be higher. I currently have one.

https://i.imgur.com/TOgu6LK.jpg

My gear isn't even that great as my guild has been terribly mediocre since NH burnt out like everyone.

Did you seriously print ur crit chance with all procs possible? Do you actually think that is your "real" crit chance?