Mythic plus killed the raiding scene.

[Aaronioslo]

You want to know why I don't raid (outside of LFR)?

"Link ahead of the Curve"

"baddies will be kicked"

"90% attendance required"

" OMFG YOU IDIOT HOW COULD YOU MAKE 1 MISTAKE?!?!!!!?"

Not to mention I play on my schedule, no one else's.


Yeahhhh, no thanks.

I'm so sorry people refused to carry you, they must be evil.

[Realitytrembles]

I'm so sorry people refused to carry you, they must be evil.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Trend]

How many hundreds of thousands of people need to be raiding for it not to be considered dead?

[Realitytrembles]

Because you're bad?

And you too.

To be sure, the main problem for me is that I refuse to schedule my playtime. But raider attitudes don't help at all.

If high-end raiding is in fact withering away, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch of ragers.

[woopytywoop]

This thread proves again that there are so many players who only play this game for gear.

they don't get a kick from killing harder bosses, but just from receiving loot.

Idc if they leave, it's the type of player I avoid anyway

[Deleted]

Rounding up 4 people according to my schedule is easy. Rounding up at least 20 people (most of the time more) that are fine with playing or not playing (being benched) while locking the schedule down isn't fun or easy.

I think i honestly would be doing less m+ if mythic raiding was more felxible but now m+ offers a good and difficult personal experience without the hassle of locking down dates and people.

[Aaronioslo]

How many hundreds of thousands of people need to be raiding for it not to be considered dead?

anything the casuals are not doing is dead

[Deleted]

The 4 difficulties and multi mode raids killed the raiding scene.
Much better when it was ONE difficulty/mode, period.

[Deleted]

Less and fewer people raid today, with mythic + gear being easier to obtain. It's just as good as mythic raiding gear. With how the mythic + esport is going we can expect from now on Mythic + will always be a thing and it wont change other than more dungeons and affixes. I love dungeons as much as the next guy, but getting better gear from mythic raidng is a joke. The dungeons are not hard enough to where they should get better gear, until you do a 17 key the content is a joke, assuming you do it on your main.

I cant link anything because Im new, it says "You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times." However you guys can look up what I just said through WQ and WoW progress.

Yeah, well.. 20 man mythic sucks man,
But I think titanforging and crazy AP grinding hurt mythic raiding more than anything else. That, and the recruitment needs for fixed 20-man format along with shitty raid design in ToS. Raiding killed raiding.

M+ saved dungeons and that's cool. Mythic raiding can die in fire for all I care.

[lockybalboa]

Mythic gear can never replace tier sets, and the best trinkets always come from raid drops.

[Aaronioslo]

the best trinkets always come from raid drops.

that's just not true

- - - Updated - - -

This thread proves again that there are so many players who only play this game for gear.

they don't get a kick from killing harder bosses, but just from receiving loot.

Idc if they leave, it's the type of player I avoid anyway

you must get high from doing proving ground?

[Dormie]

And you too.

To be sure, the main problem for me is that I refuse to schedule my playtime. But raider attitudes don't help at all.

If high-end raiding is in fact withering away, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch of ragers.

No, you're talking about people like you. All the reasons you listed are things PuG casuals say, not Mythic raiders.

[Trend]

And you too.

To be sure, the main problem for me is that I refuse to schedule my playtime. But raider attitudes don't help at all.

The whole context of this thread is the idea that something changed in the game to the detriment of raids. Therefore, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. From the very beginning of raiding in WoW (Onyxia and Molten Core) people have asked for the most geared and experienced people possible. (And raiders have always had a tendency to be demanding dicks, that is also nothing new.) And it has always been extremely difficult to raid for people who refuse to schedule their playtime. Because of course it does as raiding is a cooperative effort among many people.

Nothing has changed, with the way that you play the game raiding never would have worked for you. Don't pretend like X changed and ruined raiding.

[MoanaLisa]

if the game was social again, subs would surge higher than 10 million and the raw number of raiders would swell which would thus support the raid community.

People decide if they wish to be social or not. I know from previous threads that you're a big fan of having the game force people to be social to get anything done. That's never really going to happen and isn't social anyway in that this never much leads to lasting friends and relationships.

Social tools are available in the game if someone wishes to use them.

About the only ones missing at this point are cross-realm guilds and the ability to belong to more than one guild at a time. Guilds should be the social core of the game and if someone wants to fix them so that they really are socially flexible I think that would be welcomed by a lot of people. I despise the monogamous nature of guilds which forces players to travel from one to another trying to find a good fit. It's nonsense.

As for raiding, MMO-C pulls raiding data from time to time to see how many accounts are participating. There will be another one coming around eventually. And we'll see if things are holding relatively steady or if things have drastically changed. That's not just on Blizzard though. More and more raiding guilds at nearly all levels want players that are ready to step in on night one and go strong. No one much believes in the "Let's find good people that are a good fit with the team and we'll gear them up" business any longer. That's hurt more than it helps.

[Pull My Finger]

do you find the irony in your own words? and I'm done with you

No you're not.

[woopytywoop]

that's just not true

- - - Updated - - -



you must get high from doing proving ground?

you must get high to get a ilvl955 from WQ or relinquished vendor after grinding 5000h of trivial stuff?

But yeh I do get my kicks from killing challenging stuff without outgearing it. For me gear is a tool to accomplish my goal of killing harder stuff. People who play this game to get gear for epeen purposes without using it properly, are the people I tend to avoid.

[xcitng]

I guess everyone is entitled to their wrong opinion.

[Gaidax]

To be sure, the main problem for me is that I refuse to schedule my playtime. But raider attitudes don't help at all.

We are sorry we are not matching your schedule, we will work on it, your majesty.

[Marrilaife]

Nope it's the same problem it's always been. You have too many guilds requiring 20 people than there are people to fill the spots. Less guilds and the remaining guilds get a larger pool to choose from.

It's not the size of that pool, it's the cyclical nature of it, at the start of a tier, and especially at the start of an expansion you get the plague of overabundance of players, so guilds sprout like mushrooms after autumn rain. But 2-3 months in when the tier starts getting stale and guilds reach to bosses that take higher wipe count to down, players start to "take breaks" and the stream of recruits dries up. Then if your guild survives the tier, when it's about to end you're suddenly inundated with apps from all the "returning players" who had super serious irl reasons to take a break of course, no kidding.

And then the lower your guild is in the pecking order, the worse it is, because somehow even the most mediocre player thinks he deserves a spot in a server top guild. So the guilds that are atm in the 5-7m range have it the hardest.

At least heroic is flex size, so less problem with "cyclical playerbase" there.

[MoanaLisa]

The whole context of this thread is the idea that something changed in the game to the detriment of raids. Therefore, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. From the very beginning of raiding in WoW (Onyxia and Molten Core) people have asked for the most geared and experienced people possible. (And raiders have always had a tendency to be demanding dicks, that is also nothing new.) And it has always been extremely difficult to raid for people who refuse to schedule their playtime. Because of course it does as raiding is a cooperative effort among many people.

Nothing has changed, with the way that you play the game raiding never would have worked for you. Don't pretend like X changed and ruined raiding.

I disagree. Social guilds used to exist in substantial numbers and that's where someone could learn a little bit about raiding. Now they're impossible to find thanks to Blizzard killing social guilds with their perk system a few years ago. So raiding now demands players that are ready-to-raid but opportunities to step in and learn as you go are very limited. That's a change and a big one.

EDIT: But, single reason threads for why something is happening are always wrong and sometimes quite stupid. Especially when it relates to human behavior and why players do what they do.