How the Horde can keep up with the Alliance?

[Wyrt]

With the way the orc/human conscripts get mowed down in battle it's a wonder either race actually has population to still draw conscripts from.

[Domcho]

With the way the orc/human conscripts get mowed down in battle it's a wonder either race actually has population to still draw conscripts from.

Build more orc burrows / farms.

[Fappy]

Is the Cenarian Circle going to be pissed that the Horde burned down Teldrassil? Will they be worried that they'll try to occupy Moonglade?

I imagine lorewise Horde Druids will be super conflicted, if not openly rebelling against the Horde.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Is the Cenarian Circle going to be pissed that the Horde burned down Teldrassil? Will they be worried that they'll try to occupy Moonglade?

I imagine lorewise Horde Druids will be super conflicted, if not openly rebelling against the Horde.

I really can't wait to have the book out so all of this explained. I assume the druids would be upset yes. My assumption though is not all is as it seems but we will see.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Is the Cenarian Circle going to be pissed that the Horde burned down Teldrassil? Will they be worried that they'll try to occupy Moonglade?

I imagine lorewise Horde Druids will be super conflicted, if not openly rebelling against the Horde.

Unless the Cenarian Circle is already taking sides (because Malfurion & Tyrande), the Horde would be foolish to attack them. Attacking the Cenarian Circle is not just a bunch of druids (some of which are Trolls and Tauren - would you kill them too?); it's also taking on Wild Gods and all of nature.

[ANeM]

And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.

And Horde gain defacto control over an the broken isles by bringing in the Highmountain Tauren and Nightborne, as well as gaining unfettered access to the resources in Kalimdor that the Night Elves previously kept from their hands.

Alliance get Lightforge Draenei, a small splinter faction with no real land or resources, and Void Elves, a small splinter faction with no real land or resources.. and Dark Iron Dwarves who have officially been part of the Alliance since Cata. Land gains in EK are mostly plague ravaged areas that kind of lack valuable resources because you know, they were ravaged by the plague.

[Lane]

Cata is seen as Horde centric because Alliance kept losing in all the revamped content. Horde gets Azshara, Horde gets big part of Eversong, Horde kicks the shit out of Alliance in Stonetalon, Horde destroys Southshore, Horde get Andorhal, Horde tries to get Stromegarde, Horde nukes Gilneas.

This. The Alliance lost a significant amount of territory in Cata and all of those losses have been permanent. I see Siege of Orgrimmar brought up incessantly, but you'd never know it happened. Same with Battle for Undercity. Meanwhile, Allies have never been able to get Gilneas back despite it technically being a faction capital. They'll be losing yet another faction capital, permanently, with Teldrassil. Plus, it seems like the devs are intent on wiping any and all trace of NEs off the map, literally. Not to mention Silvermoon is far more of an advantage than Azuremyst, whose only claim to fame is the fact the Exodar crashed there.

[bufferunderrun]

Honestly, lets have a recap, and if u have any on the Alliance side, please post:
1- Vanilla nothing really big happens
2- TBC as well, we got reinforced by each 1 faction that is relatively weak [ in terms of numbers and contrinutions ].
3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.
4- Cata there were lots of skirmishes, but i dont remember anything really specific that i would say were huge losses.
5- MoP.....hummmm here it gets interesting. Okay we lost Theramore and lots of big peeps there, but only served that the Horde lost Dalaran support. Then Horde gets a civil was AGAIN! Both factions siege Orgrimmar, cant say that isnt a big loss.
6- WoD i dont remember anything specifically.
7- Legion, we all lost, but idont think one lost more than the other.
And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.
So with that in mind, am I wrong to say taht the Horde should be a lot weaker than Alliance?
ps: A forgot to mention that Garrosh even got his ass kicked in the novels, but aside from that i dont rmemeber much from it.

well i think it boil down to the the various race, the orc, tauren, goblin and troll are fundamentally all capable warriors, the forsaken are nearly all expendables and the belf most of them are capable of using magic even the innkeepers.

While the alliance has civilian and a powerful standing army the horde is basically an army with very few civilian (and those classified as civilian are able to fight on a footman level).

That is also reflected in how they fight, while the alliance has proper army discipline, tactic, prep etc; the horde fight in a chaotic manner and often lose due to poor tactic and retarded choices, yet to capture an horde city the alliance had to expend military effort because even the civilians could give them an hard fight.

[Octavius]

I really can't wait to have the book out so all of this explained. I assume the druids would be upset yes. My assumption though is not all is as it seems but we will see.

100% agree. Is not as it seems for sure, IMO.

Also, I belive exodar does not fall for the lightforged+vindicaar (light tech and so on) and silvermoon does not for sunwell. I'm puzzled for the fate of Hijal+moonglade in kalimdor, and the plaguelands on th EK. Seems logic to me they remain in neutral hands.

[Shammyrock]

Think the loss of Teldrassil is underplayed in OP. Plus the Horde didn't just capture it, they burned it down.

That's probably bigger than destroying a home the Forsaken assumed.

[Zenlin]

It is because Alliance has never been united under a common cause. Like Genn Graymane who sat out the second War because he didn't feel his worgen kingdom needed to help out the Menethil and Lordaeron. When Theramore got wrecked by Garrosh, the rest of the alliance sat out; which is why Jaina left the Council of Six and teleported back home to Kul'tiras at the start of Legion.

Thrall united the Horde under one banner. Before him the orc Warchief was just the Warchief of all the Orcs. The Taurens, Trolls and Forsaken all had their own leaders who fought local battles against Alliance. Thrall brought them all together under the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend moto. And Sylvanas played a major role later to bring the Blood Elves under the Horde allegiance, since she always felt guilty in having failed to defend Quel'Thalas against the scourge (she was Ranger-general of Silvermoon in life).

Man for man, the Alliance is always larger than the Horde. The Horde was always about survival. Horde is basically a bunch of outcasts, considered mongrels by racists and snobbish human and night elves, who decided to band together for survival.

In a full blown War, I dont think the Horde stands a chance as it is right now; but we can always thank the alliance for dissension in ranks and internal betrayals for the Horde to pull through.

Well said. This is essentially how I've always seen the Horde, and how they intended it I believe. It's a miracle the Horde has lasted as long as it has, there have been numerous times when it could have fallen apart (Lor'themar nearly having Quel'Thalas rejoining the Alliance thanks to Garrosh). The Horde are just just a group of peoples cast aside by fate, or remnants of a dying breed. I don't mind the Horde being the underdogs, it makes sense, and makes it feel like a compelling story, I'm just not a fan of the Horde always being portrayed as the aggressors. The Orcs and the Forsaken (Sylvanas more than the undead at large) could be seen that way I suppose, but not the rest of the races.

[Aoyi]

In WoW Lore, yes the Horde forces are much smaller and weaker than the Alliance due to past events. They won't ever really represent that in game though because you don't want half the player base to feel like their side has no chance. They could always play around with the numbers though with the Allied Races thing and claim that much more of the Horde's allied races came to assist than the ones that assisted the Alliance. Just because the Horde is vastly outnumbered now in lore doesn't mean it has to stay that way when they are introducing 6 more races between the factions.

[Zephre]

In WoW Lore, yes the Horde forces are much smaller and weaker than the Alliance due to past events. They won't ever really represent that in game though because you don't want half the player base to feel like their side has no chance. They could always play around with the numbers though with the Allied Races thing and claim that much more of the Horde's allied races came to assist than the ones that assisted the Alliance. Just because the Horde is vastly outnumbered now in lore doesn't mean it has to stay that way when they are introducing 6 more races between the factions.

The same applies to the alliance if you want to use past events.

Stormwind had the first and second wars to fight, prior to that they had the gurabashi war and the gnoll war. They suffered the destruction of their lands and their city, they would of had to rebuild everything combined with the constant wars against external forces, the old gods, lich king and the burning legion, Stormwind shouldn't exist as a military power but it does because the basis for warcraft was orcs vs humans, so they get a free pass (same for the orcs on the horde side)

The gnomes suffered a massive population loss with the gnomeregan event. The draenei suffered loses from the burning legion and the old horde on draenor, gilneas fought a costly civil war, the pandaren aren't significant at all, the night elves and the dwarves should basically be the military powers of the alliance but as I said, orcs vs humans, logic need not apply.

[Nights]

My 3 cents, looks like most of us tend to forget plague/blight... Only and only one reason why there are alliance vs horde insteed of horde vs worgens is cus sylvanas is not useing new plague wagons/bombs

[Deleted]

Manabomb motherfuckers. Internment camps where Alliance races are transformed into fuel or semi zombie meat shields. Winning war is not enough, A or H should exterminate each other, physically to the last human or orc. Maybe keep few in zoos Nightborne style.

[Deleted]

Because 1 orc counters 10 humans. 1 tauren counters 15 humans. Trolls be smoking bhang. Forsaken are up for 24/7.

1 Orc can counters 10 humans??? Wake up, humans are able to kill orcs in 1vs1, and they can easy kill taurens with Wall of spades (Like when romans killed elephants, with the difference that tauren do not have more strength than a horse), firearms or cavalry charge. Worgen > Tauren. Dwarves army > All. Alliance outnumber horde 5 to 1, if every alliance soldier get guns, mortars and cannons, they can decimate horde forces in range, and clear the survivols with the calvary. Remember that alliance won with less tecnology than now against the fel orcs, ogres, trolls and enslaved dragons during the second war. Actually horde just exist because if any faction die, the game would end. Remember than alliance have STEEL STEAM TANKS, no horde race have the strenght to damage the tons of shield that protect the tank, and horde just have demolisher which are just motorized wooden catapults that has nothing to do against our siege enginerings. Gnomish tech is actually better than the goblin one, that most of the time exploits them themselves.

[Sign]

1 Orc can counters 10 humans??? Wake up, humans are able to kill orcs in 1vs1, and they can easy kill taurens with Wall of spades (Like when romans killed elephants, with the difference that tauren do not have more strength than a horse), firearms or cavalry charge. Worgen > Tauren. Dwarves army > All. Alliance outnumber horde 5 to 1, if every alliance soldier get guns, mortars and cannons, they can decimate horde forces in range, and clear the survivols with the calvary. Remember that alliance won with less tecnology than now against the fel orcs, ogres, trolls and enslaved dragons during the second war. Actually horde just exist because if any faction die, the game would end. Remember than alliance have STEEL STEAM TANKS, no horde race have the strenght to damage the tons of shield that protect the tank, and horde just have demolisher which are just motorized wooden catapults that has nothing to do against our siege enginerings. Gnomish tech is actually better than the goblin one, that most of the time exploits them themselves.

"our siege engineers"-its a science fiction game son you are taking shit to serious,wake up .

[Grumpy Old Man]

Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.

This one's easy. Both gunships had cannons.

[shammypie]

well i think it boil down to the the various race, the orc, tauren, goblin and troll are fundamentally all capable warriors, the forsaken are nearly all expendables and the belf most of them are capable of using magic even the innkeepers.

While the alliance has civilian and a powerful standing army the horde is basically an army with very few civilian (and those classified as civilian are able to fight on a footman level).

That is also reflected in how they fight, while the alliance has proper army discipline, tactic, prep etc; the horde fight in a chaotic manner and often lose due to poor tactic and retarded choices, yet to capture an horde city the alliance had to expend military effort because even the civilians could give them an hard fight.

agreed the average horde person was stronger than an alliance one. You see it in the cutscene too as the the horde rallies and bashes through alliance ones. What they have in strength though they lose in tactics and technology.

[Deleted]

-orcs reproduce (a lot) faster then humans.
-orcs are fully grown and combat ready at age 12, vs 16+ for humans
-orcs are more natural fighters and require less training and equipment.
-a larger percentage of the orc population is in the army due to warrior culture.
-1 orc > 1 human on average
-there is more time in between expansions lorewise.

orcs is one of those races that evolved in a hard to survive place with little resources, so when they get to a easy place with a lot of resources their population booms fast.

I never read orcs reproduce lot faster then humans. Every time human outnumber orcs, so your argument has no sense. Orcs are bigger, they need more food, Resources to survive and more gestation time to born. And orc is stronger than human, but they aren't superior to humans and strenght isn't all in the combat, human are more agile and can dodge more easily, while orcs are too big and they are an easy target for ranged weapons.

And for the guy who say horde is stronger in average, this isn't true, only orcs and tauren are bulking races. Alliance has very strongs races like Draeneis, dwarves and worgens.