If you're fighting a single target boss, and the lowest you're getting him down to is 50%, ToF is absolutely worthless. PI is better than a 0 uptime ToF.
Seriously, read what people are talking about. They're saying to use PI until you're actually getting the boss into the later part of the fight.
We? Hardly. Just people who fail to recognize the strengths of the spec and expect it to be something it isn't or play it as if its something its not and then complain about how shadow isn't measuring up to every other class in the game :'(. Thankfully I don't have to take advice from someone who thinks that unless there are short-lived adds in a fight I should take PI for progression's sake. Unfortunately, other people may actually take your advice, which I guess is the bigger issue.
Last edited by DarkieZ; 2015-03-23 at 09:36 AM.
Except no one is saying that PI is better or that shadow is bad. They're saying if you're getting 0% uptime on ToF you may as well use something else until you're reaching a point at which the talent will be useful. But we should roll mages and only talent one way, since they never swap anything out either.
Talents, no longer situational since 2015.
That's kind of meaningless, though.
Think about the two fights you would use PI on - Butcher and Gruul. Both are fights that do not change at all, so the argument that PI lets you get to a later point in the fight so your guild can learn it? False. That is not required on butcher or gruul which are hard DPS checks and simply require your raid to kill them within the enrage (which is the biggest issue once you get past all the simple mechanics of both fights).
Now let's take the next scenario - say you are starting progression on either of those fights, you decide to run PI to "look better" on the meters, or because you aren't getting to the point where you are getting any ToF uptime. OK, you are a few dozen wipes in and your guild is starting to get to the point where a kill is in sight, and it's time to burst out the 125 stat food and augment runes, and of course, the best talents you can run for DPS. Very rarely do you ever kill a boss shortly after this, and suddenly you are having early wipes and looking bad on the meters, and your raid is wondering, "hey, why is XYZ doing so much worse now?"
So there are two problems here. One, you used PI simply to create a false image of doing meaningful damage when it's not because you will never use PI on 99% of the kills, and two, when you start using ToF and wiping again, your guild sees you at the bottom and thinks you suck, since they fail to understand the strengths of your class because instead of educating them on it, you chose to create said false image.
If your claim is that PI lets you essentially "lie" to your guild so that your raid leader doesn't replace you cause your damage is low...well, for your sake, I hope this is a PUG because that's the only time I can see that being an actual argument - otherwise find a better guild because a raid leader that doesn't understand your strengths won't get you very far anyway. The only time PI would be a better talent than ToF is if you are constantly dying before 35% - if that's the case, go nuts with PI.
With that said, I don't think PI is that far off from ToF DPS wise on single target. Anyway, I would just stick with ToF because even if you are getting 0% ToF uptime, you are never going to get anything meaningful out of attempts using PI anyway. At least with ToF, you know you are running the best talent possible for a kill at any point.
Last edited by Dawnrage; 2015-03-23 at 06:32 PM.
Because the butcher doesn't change at all at any point in the fight, right?
http://www.wowhead.com/guides/raidin...hic-difficulty
Regen#1804 need NA overwatch friends.
I did read what you said. I was quoting you. Not the entire thread. You said madness that people think ToF is good for progression unless there are adds. I disagreed with you. How about you read. If the boss isn't getting down to 50% (don't even understand that value either) it isn't the one shadow priest w/o PI's fault.
Holy shit, this is literally the entire point. It's literally this simple.
If you're progressing and taking bullshit talents to look better, you're not long for that team anyway. The entire point was, in a situation in which you're not able to benefit from tof, you may as well take something else. How this is a difficult concept is just beyond me.
You don't take mindbender and then just not cast it. You don't take SoD and then never dump your procs. You don't take insanity without casting it. You don't take ToF unless you can see some uptime. When you get to the point at which you can get uptime, you use it because it's superior. How the fuck is this so difficult to understand?
Beyond that, if you don't want to do that, weirdly enough, you don't have to. I personally don't because it's not worth the tome to flex on the meters when the raid is going to eat shit anyway, but the fact that this such a foreign concept is just mind blowing.
Can I just jump in to say holy shit the 4 set is fun!
I finally got it on my priest cos it's kinda an alt atm. I went and ran Maidens on lfr for runestones since pugging maidens HC is much hard. Anyhoo, the damage increase from that seems nuts to me. Granted a 3 target fight is probably a wet dream for it but having almost 90% uptime on a 12% haste buff feels fantastic.
I only saw sims from ages ago (probably ST) that rated it kind of meh, is it just me that thinks its great?