Level 100 Talents

[Deleted]

I was wondering if anybody could answer me a question or two about the level 100 talents.

The main questing I have to ask is that when you have 10 seconds left on Vendetta, if you pop Shadow Reflection, will your Vendetta buff get completely refreshed?

[Gandalfeeny]

I think the shadow only mimics your abilities. I don't think it refreshes your buffs and debuffs so; I'd say, no, it doesn't refresh Vendetta. Then again, a lvl 100 player would have a better clue as this is only from what I've read.

[Deleted]

From testing it gave vendetta for like 10 secs then dropped straight off again as to whether it gives the dmg buff x2 im unsure.

[Deleted]

I'll have to go to a little testing of my own tomorrow once everything is fixed. Thanks for the info

[Deleted]

Assassination specific characteristics for Shadow Reflection:
- Does not benefit from Assassin's Resolve +damage% passive from daggers
- Does not benefit from owner Vendetta debuff; instead it has its own Vendetta debuff. Owner's Glyph of Vendetta also affects the Shadow Reflection vendetta
- Has its own Envenom buff (that seemingly does nothing)
- Does benefit from owner Enhanced Vendetta
- Does benefit from owner Empowered Envenom, but does not have its own

[Deleted]

Is SR definitely our best option?

[Deleted]

Done some testing in 5 mans ect and as sub and assa I really like SR, Combat I was playing with VR due to DFA being a big disappointment imo.

[Rhodianni]

Question about DfA. Sometimes it seems to refund the CP used, what's up with that?

[Deleted]

Haven't really noticed that tbh how ever I really hate the energy cost of DFA. Even with the Glyph of Energy it just seems so clunky were as VR on AoE and cleave seems to make the rotation smoother.

[Coldkil]

Is SR definitely our best option?

May be sometimes tricky to use, but it's slightly better than Lemon Zest and definitely better than DfA. Lemon Zest is still an option giving a solid and constand damage increase, DfA is just bad designed (it's damage doesn't cover much for other dps losses like autoattacks and poison procs).

[Deleted]

May be sometimes tricky to use, but it's slightly better than Lemon Zest and definitely better than DfA. Lemon Zest is still an option giving a solid and constand damage increase, DfA is just bad designed (it's damage doesn't cover much for other dps losses like autoattacks and poison procs).

I'm seeing my dps spike up on DfA uses. That said, none of them seem to be outperforming each other significantly for me.

[Chimpyman]

yup. all 3 talents are pretty garbage. but o well

[Edlarel]

I'm using DfA on most aoe fights when I'm not using tempest for the dot or cleave-evisc. It's done pretty well for me so far, and it wasn't terrible on the couple boss fights I had it on too. The only issue I run into is it's potential death if I jump at something in the air/lava, but I'm used to that.

Venom Zest is good for static damage increase, but I like watching my rogue flip around, so until somebody can prove it's actively lowering my dps significantly, I'll stick with DfA. SR has some crazy timing that I'm still trying to work out, but was really good the couple times I used it right (at least, I think I did, since it blew away the mob/boss at that point).

[Deleted]

Question about DfA. Sometimes it seems to refund the CP used, what's up with that?

It doesn't refund, it simply bugs and won't execute the Eviscerate/Envenom when you land. Been there since Alpha.

[Tedj]

Is SR definitely our best option?

For PvE, imho and if used properly, yes. It doubles your burst every two minutes while Venom Rush is just not as effective except for combat (and even then it depends on bosses so that you can have max energy regen since combat is heavily reliant on energy regen), and DfA costs too much for a finisher only for 50% more damage and an animation that costs you auto attacks and poison procs, plus you won't get the Evenom proc for Assa.

I only really see it being good on trash for AoE or boss fights where intense AoE is going on.

Question about DfA. Sometimes it seems to refund the CP used, what's up with that?

What? That's the first I hear about it, will try.

yup. all 3 talents are pretty garbage. but o well

They're not garbage. Actually they're well balanced between each other and I like Blizzard's approach here, one passive, one active cooldown, one active ability, all pretty balanced considering they are shared between PvP'ers and PvE'ers.

I'm using DfA on most aoe fights when I'm not using tempest for the dot or cleave-evisc. It's done pretty well for me so far, and it wasn't terrible on the couple boss fights I had it on too. The only issue I run into is it's potential death if I jump at something in the air/lava, but I'm used to that.

Venom Zest is good for static damage increase, but I like watching my rogue flip around, so until somebody can prove it's actively lowering my dps significantly, I'll stick with DfA. SR has some crazy timing that I'm still trying to work out, but was really good the couple times I used it right (at least, I think I did, since it blew away the mob/boss at that point).

Unfortunately recount doesn't keep track of your shadow. But let's consider for:

• SnD is up
• Glyph of Energy
• raw damage (ilevel 614, Energy regen 10.95 + 8 from SnD)
• assume you use DfA all the time as finisher every 20 sec perfectly:
  
  • 7.871 (DfA AoE) + 12,968 * 1.5 (Evis 5CP + 50%) = 27.323 damage every 20sec, or 163.938 damage in 2 minutes.
  • You make 47.340 damage with this ability every 2 minutes expecting you use it on CD, and you only get damage from it.
• assume you use ShR and make use of the most energy for only ambushes and Evis (not even counting crit CP generation) for 8 sec:
  
  • Start at 120 energy, 2 ambushes means 7.552 * 2 = (15.104 dmg)(3 sec)(4 CP)
  • 18.95 energy/sec means in those 3 seconds you won 56.85 energ for another Ambush. Above + this = (22.656 dmg)(4.5 sec)(6 CP)
  • Another 2 sec (total 5 now) for GCD and you're at 38 energ enough for Evis 5 CP (12,968). Above + this = (35.624 dmg)(5 sec)(2 CP)
  • Wait 3 sec (total 8 now) and another ambush for 7.552. Above + this = (43.176 dmg)(8 sec)(4 CP)

So you do less 5k raw damage. Now take into consideration the following:

• Ambush translates into "Find Weakness" (100% armor bypass and therefor further DPS increase) and you can't vanish every time before DfA
• Ambush costs 40 energy while in ShD meaning roughly 33% more ambushes and also more Eviscerates
• Ambush crits means more CP, which means more Evis.
• More Evis = more energy regen through Relentless Strikes = more Ambush.
• Popping trinket cooldowns will increase this damage, while only increasing DfA once or twice
• If Assa you'll lose a lot of damage from Evenom procs for Mutilate and Dispatch.

Take all the above into consideration and I'm pretty sure, PvE single target boss wise, ShR wins DfA. DfA does have it's situation uses like multi pack, trashes, bosses who spawn lots of adds, and it's funny animation, but you wanted data, and there's some quick, very raw data!

Have fun all!

[Deleted]

I'm at work so I can't test it right now, but am I correct to assume that Shadow Reflection will also mimic Killing Spree? I see no reason for it not to but want to make sure

[Igi]

What about venom rush in combat spec? Deadly poison is replaced with instant poison and I'm not sure if it works.
And if it does, what about blade flurry? Does it apply instant poison to all targets?

[Deleted]

What about venom rush in combat spec? Deadly poison is replaced with instant poison and I'm not sure if it works.
And if it does, what about blade flurry? Does it apply instant poison to all targets?

Yes Venom Rush applies poison to all targets so VR is just as effective in combat.

[ymirsson]

For PvE, imho and if used properly, yes. It doubles your burst every two minutes while Venom Rush is just not as effective except for combat (and even then it depends on bosses so that you can have max energy regen since combat is heavily reliant on energy regen), and DfA costs too much for a finisher only for 50% more damage and an animation that costs you auto attacks and poison procs, plus you won't get the Evenom proc for Assa.

I only really see it being good on trash for AoE or boss fights where intense AoE is going on.


What? That's the first I hear about it, will try.


They're not garbage. Actually they're well balanced between each other and I like Blizzard's approach here, one passive, one active cooldown, one active ability, all pretty balanced considering they are shared between PvP'ers and PvE'ers.




Unfortunately recount doesn't keep track of your shadow. But let's consider for:

• SnD is up
• Glyph of Energy
• raw damage (ilevel 614, Energy regen 10.95 + 8 from SnD)
• assume you use DfA all the time as finisher every 20 sec perfectly:
  
  • 7.871 (DfA AoE) + 12,968 * 1.5 (Evis 5CP + 50%) = 27.323 damage every 20sec, or 163.938 damage in 2 minutes.
  • You make 47.340 damage with this ability every 2 minutes expecting you use it on CD, and you only get damage from it.
• assume you use ShR and make use of the most energy for only ambushes and Evis (not even counting crit CP generation) for 8 sec:
  
  • Start at 120 energy, 2 ambushes means 7.552 * 2 = (15.104 dmg)(3 sec)(4 CP)
  • 18.95 energy/sec means in those 3 seconds you won 56.85 energ for another Ambush. Above + this = (22.656 dmg)(4.5 sec)(6 CP)
  • Another 2 sec (total 5 now) for GCD and you're at 38 energ enough for Evis 5 CP (12,968). Above + this = (35.624 dmg)(5 sec)(2 CP)
  • Wait 3 sec (total 8 now) and another ambush for 7.552. Above + this = (43.176 dmg)(8 sec)(4 CP)

So you do less 5k raw damage. Now take into consideration the following:

• Ambush translates into "Find Weakness" (100% armor bypass and therefor further DPS increase) and you can't vanish every time before DfA
• Ambush costs 40 energy while in ShD meaning roughly 33% more ambushes and also more Eviscerates
• Ambush crits means more CP, which means more Evis.
• More Evis = more energy regen through Relentless Strikes = more Ambush.
• Popping trinket cooldowns will increase this damage, while only increasing DfA once or twice
• If Assa you'll lose a lot of damage from Evenom procs for Mutilate and Dispatch.

Take all the above into consideration and I'm pretty sure, PvE single target boss wise, ShR wins DfA. DfA does have it's situation uses like multi pack, trashes, bosses who spawn lots of adds, and it's funny animation, but you wanted data, and there's some quick, very raw data!

Have fun all!

ShR ambush gives me Find Weakness?

[Ryme]

ShR ambush gives me Find Weakness?

No, it's gives no one (your or your clone) find weakness.