Am I the only crane weaver fighting in Mystic raid?

[Deleted]

Well, in the past, as far as I know, the company running WoW in Asia is different from Blizzard @US/EU. Their bosses do 8% more damage and have 8% more health, and the gear dropping is 8 ilvl higher. The weekly reset is after 3 days and prior to WoD you could do 10-man and 25-man heroic in one reset. I'm not sure whether or not this is still the case.

MagicRens armory is here, so i670 doesn't seem to be buffed nor does he has the 4pc bonus.

[Deleted]

MagicRens, could you explain when to use CJL? I saw you using it sometimes in the butcher kill, not much, but i dont see the point of wasting 34k of mana for 4 chi, i know u get them quick but its a lot of mana, a lot lot of mana.

[Deleted]

But you have so much regen aside (granted, you don't have much time to channel but still, you have the potential !), and Butcher is a short fight, so it doesn't matter IMO.

@Tree : Possible differences : Did you chiex at 3 or 4 ?
And your rsk debuff uptime wasnt optimal too. Your DPS depends if you chose to rsk for damage and do it on cooldown or if you just do it for the debuff uptime and spend chi on ChiEx which heals more.

I thought Power Strikes gave more chi overall so it wouldnt make sense. The reason why chi brew is good there is that you can do those 3/4 ChiEx 2 times in a row and the healing from this is massive. Chi Brew is only there for healing burst (I think MagicRens mentionned it somewhere)

[Deleted]

But you have so much regen aside (granted, you don't have much time to channel but still, you have the potential !), and Butcher is a short fight, so it doesn't matter IMO.

@Tree : Possible differences : Did you chiex at 3 or 4 ?
And your rsk debuff uptime wasnt optimal too. Your DPS depends if you chose to rsk for damage and do it on cooldown or if you just do it for the debuff uptime and spend chi on ChiEx which heals more.

I thought Power Strikes gave more chi overall so it wouldnt make sense. The reason why chi brew is good there is that you can do those 3/4 ChiEx 2 times in a row and the healing from this is massive. Chi Brew is only there for healing burst (I think MagicRens mentionned it somewhere)

1) MagicRen was using CJL in his last kill only once. The mana cost is too high to use it frequently. It's true that you have insane tea-stacks and can drink a lot, but you can't do anything else while drinking. I assume CJL just works if you have Brew on CD and can make use of a few ChiExs
2) I used ChiEx on 3 mostly. I tried to prefer 4, but when the group dropped I prefered to cast it right away
3) My RSK uptime was 98.28% - don't forget that I was dps'ing the first 1m50s and stopped afterwards. So if you compare my logs to MagicRen, you have to zoom
4) I think you are right: Brew offers the possibility to drop several ChiEx when needed, while PowerStrikes offers a more sustained chi generation

Conclusion: ChiEx only with 4? I still don't imagine this would lead to the 50k HPS MagicRen is popping :-/

[MagicRen]

Here's my latest M2 data, with advanced battle logs.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/t6WG3AbwDr79qFQP/

It's too slow to reach MMO in my home. So I'll reply questions tommorrow.
Thank you very much treenicillin! You helped me a lot!

[Deleted]

don't forget that I was dps'ing the first 1m50s and stopped afterwards. So if you compare my logs to MagicRen, you have to zoom

I did ! But I checked visually so there were gaps... I'll read the numbers next time

I think he did chiex only with 4 and then Detonate was used too.. but i can be wrong

Edit :
whoops sorry. defo not 98% ! I was right in the end ; you're not the only one putting RSK on the boss be careful
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e=235&target=1

[carl812]

So whats going on in magic rens logs? There are two different kinds of chi explosion listed, presumably from the two different stances, But the one that's doing the most healing is the one from the caster stance.

[Volibear]

So whats going on in magic rens logs? There are two different kinds of chi explosion listed, presumably from the two different stances, But the one that's doing the most healing is the one from the caster stance.

The issue with ChiEx in logs is the Eminence from it is listed as a copy of its own spell in the logs. So what you're seeing is the ChiEx healing, and the Eminence from ChiEx separately.

[Deleted]

1) MagicRen was using CJL in his last kill only once. The mana cost is too high to use it frequently. It's true that you have insane tea-stacks and can drink a lot, but you can't do anything else while drinking. I assume CJL just works if you have Brew on CD and can make use of a few ChiExs
2) I used ChiEx on 3 mostly. I tried to prefer 4, but when the group dropped I prefered to cast it right away
3) My RSK uptime was 98.28% - don't forget that I was dps'ing the first 1m50s and stopped afterwards. So if you compare my logs to MagicRen, you have to zoom
4) I think you are right: Brew offers the possibility to drop several ChiEx when needed, while PowerStrikes offers a more sustained chi generation

Conclusion: ChiEx only with 4? I still don't imagine this would lead to the 50k HPS MagicRen is popping :-/

Its probably worth pointing out that a big portion of Crane-ChiEx healing comes from the GotS spawned around yourself: 8*75=600%SP out of 1675%SP healing. To tease out the most of it you need to be: within 8' of enough damaged targets including yourself to minimise overheal and 5 targets for your Eminence healing within 20' of yourself and your statue. Using it at 3chi in comparison gives a total of 860%SP, so its a huge HPS loss to do it earlier than 4 chi.

Bonus from big post in the making:
Efficiency for of healing per chi spent:
Enveloping Mist - 990%/3 = 330% SP/chi (396% with Serpent Stance)
Uplift - 990%/2 = 495% SP/chi (594% with Serpent Stance)
Chi Explosion (S)(4chi) - 1511.25% = 377.8% (453.375% with Serpent Stance)
Chi Explosion (C)(4chi) - 1675%/4 = 418.75% SP/chi
Chi Explosion (C)(3chi) - 860%/3 = 286.7% SP/chi

So it would seem that the last minute 50% buff to uplift heavily skewed chi efficiency for MW and a significant efficiency loss to use chi for anything else provided you can hit at least 4 targets. The situation was even more dire before the post-launch EM buff. This is also conveniently why Uplift is not bad in 5-mans, as you only need to can cover the raid with ReMs with trivial ease and uplift everyone and do more straight up healing with Uplift over EM. Proviso: Yes, EM boost your Soothing by 30% and is therefore very good for keeping a tank alive and I'm not suggesting you avoid EM in dungeons which would be fatal and totally-not-my-fault-at-all. The side effect of buffing Uplift and EM was that it basically invalidated Chi Explosion for Serpent, which is a shame. Would be nice to see ChiEx replace Enveloping Mist in Serpent instead and have it 1) heal for (chi+1)*X% 2) +50% of base heal over 6s with EMs 30% soothing boost 3) split the HoT only amongst nearby allies 4) GotS or whatever. At current tuning this would mean at 4chi it would heal for c600%SP up front, 300% over 6s amongst nearby allies and then 8 spheres nearby. In effect you'd convert EM into front-loaded semi-Hot (like a big Regrowth) leaving a residual healing boost on the main tank, and as a kicker anyone nearby. So the lvl 100 talents would then be stacked heal (Breath of the Serpent), single target (S)/group healing (C)(Chi Explosion) and spread healing (S)/single target damage or healing (C)(Pool of Mists) which I think would both provide a niche for each and be elegant at the same time.

However, back to the far more interesting Crane ChiEx. If you have RSK on the target (+10% damage), Crane's Zeal and Tiger Strikes up (+20% crit and +25% multi strike) you push the SP for ChiEx to 2408.1% or 602% per chi which is massive and so *can* be as efficient, though is much harder to do than have 6 ReMs out on people who won't over heal. Yeah there's an intrinsic diminishing return given that this is throughput due to temporary stat boosts rather than +X% healing but works for demonstration purposes!

For my own interest, with DR ChiEx(C)(4c) is (10*70*1.1+5*75+8*75)*(1.3877/1.1877)*(1.34812/1.19812)=2294.1% (573.5%/chi). I used the values for stats from Geodew's megapost and BiS estimation therein: 18.77% crit and 32.02% ms (19.812% more healing).

TL;DR: Chi Explosion is serious healing in Crane stance.

[MagicRen]

Try to answer your questions. Sorry for the bad English.
1. Talent: Chi Brew/ChiEx
I choose Chi Brew because it offers controlable Chi generation, and additional 2 stacks mana tea. As a healer, we always facing unpredictable(or non-linear) damage environment comparing to DPSer. So for me, even Power Strikes offers more Chi in overall, I still think it's more suitable for DPS oriented fights.
Crane weaver needs 3 buffs: Tiger Power, Crane's Zeal and RSK. Sometimes Chi Brew can give me quick power up ability.

2. 4-ChiEx
Yes, 4-ChiEx is is the only choice for me. I NEVER use other ChiEx unless by mistake :P.
Just like Jshley's math work, 4-ChiEx not only offers 8-yards healing, it also generate 8 GotS. This is a very interesting ability. You can treat these GotS as Hots / ~6 seconds, or you can explode them after stacks 16-24 GotS to get immediate healing. Explode the GotS is Crane Weaver's "Uplift".

3. Why I need to trace 4 T17 buff?
The WA rotation string was designed during Beta testing. I have 4T17 at that time. Most of the time, it can offer additional "Chi Brew" per 45 seconds. So it's necessary to cast-when-ready.
Furthermore, the WA rotation works best with 4T17 gears, because the Chi generation is much faster then current. With T17, you'd never need more than 2 jabs to acquire 4 Chi.

4. Gear Level.
In MOP, Asia has 8 more iLv and boss has more health. In WOD, we have global environment now. So the logs becomes comparable.

5. CJL
It's "expensive" skill, but not so expensive as your imagination. If you tried my WA rotation, CJL is one of standard Chi generator like Jab. For real battle, I may not use it so aggressivly as the WA rotation, but it still usable for burst healing. Once you have familar with the Boss timeline and found time gaps to drink mana tea, you should be more relax to use CJL.
In short: don't afraid the mana cost of the CJL, use it when necessary.

[Deleted]

Sorry about the mini-necro, I hope people are still somewhat following this.

After making a shitton of Healing Sphere's via chiEx+CJL spam, would it be optimal to change to Serpent stance for the 20% healing bonus before exploding them?

[Shamburger]

10k dps with 32k hps?

I don't think thats possible. Alot of these mythic & heroic logs I'm looking at I see misteavers hitting around 15k-18k dps and are getting around the same HPS.

Until you produce logs I don't think anyone can take you seriously.

I do wish fistweaving was as viable as it was back in MoP. I do like having RSK now though in WoD. The total stance switching mechanic is rather annoying though.

Here's a log

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...B#type=summary

Our first M-butcher kill. Kidmagic (Our MW) 15,290 dps/44,228 hps

[Chrispotter]

Here's a log

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...B#type=summary

Our first M-butcher kill. Kidmagic (Our MW) 15,290 dps/44,228 hps

44k hps is kinda low for a progression Kill on butcher.

[Thiocyanide]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...kings&fight=21

Gonna leave that here for some discussion.

[Floopa]

let's be fair that log is heavilyyyyy padded

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...kings&fight=21

Gonna leave that here for some discussion.

How on earth did you manage that anyway? You've gotten one rather bad revival that overhealed for 30% of it's healing D:

And it's not even like it was a super short 2½ min fight or something.

Wat.

[Deleted]

How on earth did you manage that anyway? You've gotten one rather bad revival that overhealed for 30% of it's healing D:

And it's not even like it was a super short 2½ min fight or something.

Wat.

Stack city bitch

[Thiocyanide]

It wasn't me, haha.

It's an excellent example of optimized Chi Explosion play, though. She had the lowest overheal percentage of the healers as well, so to say that it was "padding" is a disservice. She timed each Chi Explosion for each cleave, and the stack positioning allowed virtually every orb spawned to pop instantly.

Additionally, she's rocking two on-use Haste trinkets which allow her to get a looooooooot of jabs out. While those on-use effects were up it looks like she got a Chi Explosion out on each and every cleave.

So yeah, Crane Weaving works, especially if your group is willing to work around you.

[Deleted]

It wasn't me, haha.

It's an excellent example of optimized Chi Explosion play, though. She had the lowest overheal percentage of the healers as well, so to say that it was "padding" is a disservice. She timed each Chi Explosion for each cleave, and the stack positioning allowed virtually every orb spawned to pop instantly.

Additionally, she's rocking two on-use Haste trinkets which allow her to get a looooooooot of jabs out. While those on-use effects were up it looks like she got a Chi Explosion out on each and every cleave.

So yeah, Crane Weaving works, especially if your group is willing to work around you.

Oh.

Yea, jesus o.O Haste is such a poor stat for us, I wonder where that idea sprung to mind. Very impressive

But yea that's what I've seen as well, FWing requries a great deal of communication with your group but has great potential... Just reminding my RL that I'm "melee" on butcher and need a grp to stack is a recurring event each week, lol.

On another note, what do you all think of the new ChiEx changed? Are we done for?

[Deleted]

It's an excellent example of optimized Chi Explosion play, though. She had the lowest overheal percentage of the healers as well, so to say that it was "padding" is a disservice. She timed each Chi Explosion for each cleave, and the stack positioning allowed virtually every orb spawned to pop instantly.

I think what he meant by "padding" was that the whole raid took the cleaves instead of (usual) only ~5 or so people, which pushed the HPS so much. I think it is an interesting strategy even for progress, though, because if you have the HPS for the dot you don't need to worry about people getting too much cleave damage.