Veterans frustrated by presidential debate on Iraq war

[taliey]

I'm just waiting for that moment when a president says, 'this will not be like Iraq.'

Then we will have come full circle.

[mizeri]

What gets me is the keyboard warriors that are crying out that we should do something about ISIS when those same people were slagging off the troops only a year ago for butting in, fucking hypocrites. Anyone that thinks we should go back in needs to go to their nearest recruitment office at the nearest opportunity.

this times 100

[Deleted]

I'm in agreement with a lot of this. Many Veterans that I speak with are disappointed with both sides of the isle. The republicans who pushed so hard for war in Iraq, and now distance themselves from that decision, and the Democrats that were so quick to negotiate our withdrawal. We watch as Iraq falls back into chaos, and a lot of the work we did to help rebuild the nation fall into disarray.

Let me explain some things to you:

1) As is transparently obvious to everyone else in the world, regardless of political persuasion, nationality or sympathies the Iraq war was a war started by an oil baron for oil. You were the oil baron's lackeys.

2) You and your friends killed a bunch of innocent people. There was a consistent level of cowardice in US military action which placed soldier's lives above that of the civillian population. For those reason you command very little respect amongst your military allies and contempt and disdadin amongst your enemies.

3) You were unsuccessful in subduing an insurgency which was, in relative terms, vastly underequipped and outgunned. You had aerial supremacy and technology several generations ahead of the insurgents. A trillion dollars was spent and wasted.
Now, apparently, you want even more of the same shit to fight a much more formidably force than the one you couldn't defeat initially.

4) You expect handouts for veterans, but soldiers tend to be right-wing when it comes to everyone else. There's a major level of hypocrisy there. Either you believe in welfare for all that need it, or you don't.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The men in arms won the Vietnam war; the men in suits who worked for politicians handed it right back. After the NVA ran into a buzzsaw when the Tet Offensive blew up in their face, had actual, whole, military victory been the obvious goal it would have been 20 years earlier, the US could have marched to Hanoi and ended it before man walked on the moon. Honestly, that's how it went in Iraq, too -- handcuffed rules of engagement, amorphous and ill-defined objectives, dictated by the political pressures on the homefront. Yet for all that, Iraq was a victory that even this administration was happy to claim... until we bailed out like we left the coffee machine plugged in.

Meh, ok, I guess I could disagree, but, I think Honestly Vietnam, much like the Russians trying to move into Afghanistan, it was perceived as being a war that could have been won a certain way, whether it be through over whelming power and technology.


I think Iraq was assumed that we go in guns blazing we wouldn't have to do too much damage, we could attack like a Surgical Knife instead of a blunt instrument, the problem is it just didn't work out that way, and when things went tits up, we were stuck.

So I think you are right, our hands were tied to some degree, because there was the perception and politics of the war, and then there was actually what was needed to win, but all the same it still a failure on our part, not the soldiers, not those put in harms way, the chicken shit war hawks back at home trying to pimp that patriotic bullshit, while sending somebody else to die for a war they weren't really committed to in the first place.

The war was stupid, it was needless, it would have cost a fuck ton less to keep bribing and manipulating them the way we always had, and probably would have been more effective.


My opinion is never again, unless WE are specifically attacked, or our allies, we need to mind out own fucking business, and before we ever commit to anything as far as military we get our information rock solid first.

[Stormdash]

Let me explain some things to you:

1) As is transparently obvious to everyone else in the world, regardless of political persuasion, nationality or sympathies the Iraq war was a war started by an oil baron for oil. You were the oil baron's lackeys.

Except for how it yielded no oil whatsoever. The US was, last I checked, not even one of Iraq's five biggest customers, nor have we paid a penny less than market for their oil. Unless all those who engineered this war for oil forgot the "getting oil" part, I'd say that one is safely debunked as myth.

3) You were unsuccessful in subduing an insurgency which was, in relative terms, vastly underequipped and outgunned. You had aerial supremacy and technology several generations ahead of the insurgents. A trillion dollars was spent and wasted.
Now, apparently, you want even more of the same shit to fight a much more formidably force than the one you couldn't defeat initially.

See above, re: rules of engagement, and tactical and strategic decisions being made at the political level. It's hard to subdue any adversary, asymmetrical or otherwise, governed by popular opinion poll.

4) You expect handouts for veterans, but soldiers tend to be right-wing when it comes to everyone else. There's a major level of hypocrisy there. Either you believe in welfare for all that need it, or you don't.

I don't think any conservative considers veterans benefits a 'handout', but just compensation for valuable services rendered. Not the case for most forms of welfare for civilians.

[Independent voter]

a war started by an oil baron for oil

The US is the largest producer of oil in the world. The Iraq War being about oil is untrue.

[Theinquisition]

I really don't care what politicians say about the war. Hind site is 20/20, but I have little respect for the opinions of people who get their information from the TV or some politician who's concerned about how the media will portray their answer. I was in Iraq during the surge. I saw first hand how much better we made it. The war wasn't a Republican thing, as anyone who has a memory superior to a gold fish understands, but what else can you expect from the same people who try to re-write history as the DNC being the ones behind the civil rights movement instead of the ones opposing it.

To quote Mrs. Clinton "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!"

I hear ya, I do seem to remember Democrats voting for and funding the war, so their hands are just as dirty as republicans. The whole debacle has made me lose all faith in the system.

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What gets me is the keyboard warriors that are crying out that we should do something about ISIS when those same people were slagging off the troops only a year ago for butting in, fucking hypocrites. Anyone that thinks we should go back in needs to go to their nearest recruitment office at the nearest opportunity.

Hell yeah, let the COD generation see what it's really like.

[Grummgug]

Its absolutely insane the amount if lies the democrats told about Iraq with the help of the press. We know it was the right call. We know it was the wrong call for Obama to pull us out. But no-one can SAY it anymore because the lies are SO engrained at this point. Its just sad. The only thing we can do is just slam every lever in the polling booth for the GOP until it stops. The GOP now has the biggest majority in the House in 70 years. We need to do more to make it bigger.

[NuLogic]

Iraq was a waste of money. Let the neighboring countries deal with it.

[Grummgug]

I think Iraq was assumed that we go in guns blazing we wouldn't have to do too much damage, we could attack like a Surgical Knife instead of a blunt instrument, the problem is it just didn't work out that way, and when things went tits up, we were stuck.

Uh, no. That's more lies from the democrats. Iraq was looked at as something that would need years and years to set right. It wasn't go in and leave. It never was that.

[Rhine101]

That seems a bit bias as shit. Not saying there are no vets that feel that way, but that OP reads like a Democrat commercial.

If I recall correct, BOTH parties supported the war. The only one against going to Iraq was the UN. There were dissenters here and there but people forget sn near the whole nation was for it. So much that the Dixie Chicks had their careers ruined over supposing it. So this partisan spin is very obvious.

I don't know any veterans who blame politicians for this. The truth is any know politicians are full of shot on both sides. The guys I know don't care about the politics. They even wives they were helping people and they do not feel frustrated at some political debate.


Come on. It's Memorial Day. We don't need this today. Save it for another.

[Grummgug]

Iraq was a waste of money. Let the neighboring countries deal with it.

We MUST undo the Obama mistake to pull out and go back in. All over again. Because its a breeding ground for terrorists. Nothing has changed. Its a breeding ground for terrorists and they'll just hit us AGAIN until we invade and STAY THERE to fix the place. Period.

There is no option to pack up, leave, and the place just calms down and stops attacking us. You know that, right? What Obama did was insane.

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What is gonna happen is another group of terrorists trained in Iraq / Afghanistan are gonna bomb a major US city again. We will know in our hearts that its Obama's fault that it happened because we pulled out of there before the job was done. But no-one will be allowed to say it. In fact, anyone who does will get shouted down. The truth will not be allowed. Then we'll eventually find ourselves back there for round 3.

That's the future.

[Rhine101]

We MUST undo the Obama mistake to pull out and go back in. All over again. Because its a breeding ground for terrorists. Nothing has changed. Its a breeding ground for terrorists and they'll just hit us AGAIN until we invade and STAY THERE to fix the place. Period.

There is no option to pack up, leave, and the place just calms down and stops attacking us. You know that, right? What Obama did was insane.

we? I was there. Not going back. You gonna go?

Also, Bush signed the timeline for us to leave. It's just that Obama took the credit cause that is how dirty politics work. And dimbasses believes it cause Obama is their savior.

And no. Unless you want permanent troops in Iraq forever, countless dead Americans , and a shit ton of pricks calling us imperial baby killers , I say we stay the fuck out this. It's not our country. We trained and equipped their army. If they refuse to fight then it's on them.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Its absolutely insane the amount if lies the democrats told about Iraq with the help of the press. We know it was the right call. We know it was the wrong call for Obama to pull us out. But no-one can SAY it anymore because the lies are SO engrained at this point. Its just sad. The only thing we can do is just slam every lever in the polling booth for the GOP until it stops. The GOP now has the biggest majority in the House in 70 years. We need to do more to make it bigger.

Nope more like reality, as for more GOP, even when they WIN they one step closer to cementing that legacy for which they are known for. More Wars, targeting gays, blacks, and women, as either needing to go to work, get back in the closet, or get back in the kitchen.


Stifling freedoms for anybody else except their caucus, yes, please, please, please, continue to send your message and vote, I want it on the record for when that tide does turn again and Republicans can't sell anymore made up bullshit, they wind up being stuck pretending to fence sit, or calling themselves libertarians or independents or whatever that means.



We got into this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan LEAD by Republicans. deregulation of the housing markets, along with setting us down a path for which the current President had to clean up for all the while being called monkey and every other dirty name in the book if he or Democrats didn't clean it up fast again.


Trust me ain't the Liberal Media that is going to do in the Republicans, it's going to be the Republicans that just swept the House and Senate that will do that.

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Uh, no. That's more lies from the democrats. Iraq was looked at as something that would need years and years to set right. It wasn't go in and leave. It never was that.

Years how many specifically? Because I could have swore that was Bush that declared major conflict in Iraq over!

Remember this!



- - - Updated - - -

We MUST undo the Obama mistake to pull out and go back in. All over again. Because its a breeding ground for terrorists. Nothing has changed. Its a breeding ground for terrorists and they'll just hit us AGAIN until we invade and STAY THERE to fix the place. Period.

There is no option to pack up, leave, and the place just calms down and stops attacking us. You know that, right? What Obama did was insane.

- - - Updated - - -

What is gonna happen is another group of terrorists trained in Iraq / Afghanistan are gonna bomb a major US city again. We will know in our hearts that its Obama's fault that it happened because we pulled out of there before the job was done. But no-one will be allowed to say it. In fact, anyone who does will get shouted down. The truth will not be allowed. Then we'll eventually find ourselves back there for round 3.

That's the future.

No, we need to deport all the Republicans that think we need to go into Iraq to Iraq to deal with ISIS. Since it was a problem they helped create.

[yetgdhfgh]

Well politicians are like porn stars

Both fuck people for money and are great at changing there positions on TV!

[Sky High]

that: at least with Saddam in power we wouldn't have the shit storm going on now. Iraq shouldn't even fucking exist as it is. some people in the west draw up imaginary borders in an area that has 3 different ethnic/religious groups, none of which like each other. so sucks for the guys that spent the time out there, but really who can you blame but the people that we put in charge.

[Doctor Amadeus]

That seems a bit bias as shit. Not saying there are no vets that feel that way, but that OP reads like a Democrat commercial.

If I recall correct, BOTH parties supported the war. The only one against going to Iraq was the UN. There were dissenters here and there but people forget sn near the whole nation was for it. So much that the Dixie Chicks had their careers ruined over supposing it. So this partisan spin is very obvious.

I don't know any veterans who blame politicians for this. The truth is any know politicians are full of shot on both sides. The guys I know don't care about the politics. They even wives they were helping people and they do not feel frustrated at some political debate.


Come on. It's Memorial Day. We don't need this today. Save it for another.

Yeah, Both party's shut down the Government and can't pass a Budget, doesn't stop Republicans from Blaming Obama for everything and leading the country right.

[Rhine101]

Yeah, Both party's shut down the Government and can't pass a Budget, doesn't stop Republicans from Blaming Obama for everything and leading the country right.

I am not saying the republicans did not do that. They did. They abused filibusters.

That does not change the fact that damn beat 99% of the nation was gung ho for invading Iraq and it was even so bad that being racist towards Muslims became mainstream for a while.

To blame the war only on republicans is the epitome of bias. Both parties supported the war and only a small amount of politicians openly were against it.

To be clear. Any gop that blames Obama for everything is equally as bad. But what makes democrats different is they take pride in NOT being like the gop. So when they do the same it's a bit worse.

[Theinquisition]

Son of a whore....did I just agree with Mall Security.

Well to be honest we never really lost a conflict "militarily" only politically. Whats irritating is that we get sent to war, and told to fight with our hands tied behind our backs.

It always has interested me, with our current conflicts, on just how much the American mentality has changed over the last 70 years. In WW2 We fire bombed german and Japanese cities, killing tens of thousands, and didn't bat an eye, now if we kill people who, morally, are just as repugnant as the Nazi's, with a drone strike people lose their minds.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I am not saying the republicans did not do that. They did. They abused filibusters.

That does not change the fact that damn beat 99% of the nation was gung ho for invading Iraq and it was even so bad that being racist towards Muslims became mainstream for a while.

To blame the war only on republicans is the epitome of bias. Both parties supported the war and only a small amount of politicians openly were against it.

To be clear. Any gop that blames Obama for everything is equally as bad. But what makes democrats different is they take pride in NOT being like the gop. So when they do the same it's a bit worse.

Ok, I see what you mean, you're right.