How successful can the democrats be without Obama at the top of the ticket?

[Naxere]

With all of the backstabbing Bill Clinton has done to Obama, I'd be surprised if Obama endorsed Hillary in 2016. My impression of the current President is that he holds grudges.

That said, if he did endorse Hillary in 2016 and I were Joe Biden, I'd be pretty pissed and would go at Hillary hard.

[Kujako]

With all of the backstabbing Bill Clinton has done to Obama, I'd be surprised if Obama endorsed Hillary in 2016. My impression of the current President is that he holds grudges.

That said, if he did endorse Hillary in 2016 and I were Joe Biden, I'd be pretty pissed and would go at Hillary hard.

While he may wear her underwear from time to time (no evidence of this, but it wouldn't surprise me), Hillary is not the same person as Bill (nor do I think there is nearly as much Bill vs Obama animosity as people seem inclined to make out). And while he may be a bit of a goof, I think Joe is smart enough to know he's not electable as president.

[cubby]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...passes-whites/

I think the people who scream news bias on both sides can pretty much keep quiet here. Its a Fox News story reporting on findings done by the left-wing Associated Press. So, everyone should be happy.



See, the problem for democrats is that Obama won a narrow victory in 2012 thanks to a huge historic turnout surge of African-Americans. So if they are going to win in 2016, democrats will probably NEED to keep black turnout at record levels. But how can they do that? Obama can't run again. Will blacks turnout in massive numbers for Hillary Clinton? I don't think so.

If black turnout percentage simply falls back to 2004 levels, they lose. The democratic party can't win being the party of non-whites unless they generate massive turnout. There's just not enough votes there.

I think the real problem is that this source and it's analysis isn't much better than what my seven-year-old could do. It doesn't take into account anything other than race and voter turn out, merging two pieces of information as if they lived in vacuum.

Kerry was a horrible candidate, in a variety of different was and for a plethora of reasons.

In 2016 Obama will be helping the Dems, bolstering black voter turnout. Hilary will more than likely be the Dem candidate, and she will bring out her own new voters.

Conclusion: FOX News is still Faux "News".

[KingHorse]

You voted? You chose to live in this country. You've made your choice.

Due to the many discussions we've had about voter ID wherein you claimed it is simply too difficult for people to move to a different state because they can't afford to do so, I'm going to call the quoted statement a steaming fucking pile of hypocritical shit.

[Naxere]

(nor do I think there is nearly as much Bill vs Obama animosity as people seem inclined to make out).

I think there is. It's hard to read things like this, this , this , or this and think they have a warm fuzzy relationship.

"A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee," the former president told the liberal lion from Massachusetts, according to the gossipy new campaign book, "Game Change."

After Kennedy sided with Obama, Clinton reportedly griped, "the only reason you are endorsing him is because he's black. Let's just be clear."

“I’ve heard more from Bush, asking for my advice, than I’ve heard from Obama,” my sources quoted Clinton as saying. “I have no relationship with the president — none whatsoever. Obama doesn’t know how to be president. He doesn’t know how the world works. He’s incompetent. He’s an amateur!”

Every story has seemed to reinforce an image of Clinton as a sort of ill-tempered coot driven a little mad by Obama’s success. “I think this campaign has enraged him,” the adviser told me. “He doesn’t like Obama.” In private conversations, he has been dismissive of his wife’s rival. James Clyburn, an African-American congressman from South Carolina, told me that Clinton called him in the middle of the night after Obama won that state’s primary and raged at him for fifty minutes.

“Hillary’s opponent, in his entire campaign, every two or three weeks has said for months and months and months, beginning in Nevada, that really there wasn’t much difference in how America did when I was President and how America’s done under President Bush,” he said in Lock Haven. “Now, if you believe that, you should probably vote for him, but you get a very bad grade in history.”

[cubby]

I think there is. It's hard to read things like this, this , this , or this and think they have a warm fuzzy relationship.

That is some of the worst citing I've ever seen on this forum - and that's saying a lot.

You're using quotes from the 2008 Primary, when Bill was stumping for Hilary. Seriously? Why don't you use something (real) from, say, the last two years. Or how about ALL the times Bill was out campaigning for Obama in 2012. The rest of the cites are quotes from bullshit gossipy books.

You look ridiculous posting things like this.

[ptwonline]

A President will almost always get fewer votes when they run for re-election simply because there is more ammo to use against them, and there will always be people unsatisfied and looking for change. So the fact that Obama's numbers remained fairly strong even running for re-eection and even with a still pretty bad economy is actually quite remarkable.

If you're only looking at the race aspect and ignore factors like I just mentioned, then you're bound for serious disappointment if you think Republicans will see some kind of big racial advantage come 2016. Blacks will still vote Democrat in overwhelming numbers because they know Republicans are out to screw them. Some of the white vote for Democrats will recover since they will see a new candidate and (presumably) the economy will be better in 2016 than it is now. And with politics so polarized now, all of the moderates and Hispanics that Republicans have scared off in the past 2 elections may be much more strongly Democrat and will be harder to win back than they normally would be.

[KingHorse]

Why does it matter that they experienced a huge natural disaster? Their financial situation has been a long time in the making.

Their financial situation was made drastically worse when they were trying to recover from the 08 crash. The earthquake cleanup, rebuilding, and loss of revenue from foreign investments have all combined to drastically increase their woes. And as the person I was quoting was pointing to them as an example of bad in an effort to pretend our deficit is no big deal, I think having all the facts was important.

That's why it matters.

[Naxere]

That is some of the worst citing I've ever seen on this forum - and that's saying a lot.

You're using quotes from the 2008 Primary, when Bill was stumping for Hilary. Seriously? Why don't you use something (real) from, say, the last two years. Or how about ALL the times Bill was out campaigning for Obama in 2012. The rest of the cites are quotes from bullshit gossipy books.

You look ridiculous posting things like this.

Do you honestly think Clinton campaigned so hard for Obama because he likes him, or because his display of party loyalty will help his wife in the 2016 primaries/election?

http://www.theblaze.com/contribution...-barack-obama/

The second part of Bill’s strategy is to prove that, whatever his negative feelings about Obama and the president’s ineffective performance, the Clintons are true-blue Democrats and are doing everything in their power to get Obama reelected in 2012.

Come 2016, the Clintons expect to be repaid for this display of loyalty by getting the backing of the party’s honchos.

[NYC17]

Do you honestly think Clinton campaigned so hard for Obama because he likes him, or because his display of party loyalty will help his wife in the 2016 primaries/election?

http://www.theblaze.com/contribution...-barack-obama/

Who knows?

You know who doesn't know? theblaze.

[Pitkanen]

First, all that matters is the swing states. Voter ID laws which disproportionately make it harder for poor minorities to vote will cause enough energy to mobilize the vote. And unless Rubio gets the nod as the republican candidate and is allowed to push for his personal view pro-amnesty in the primaries and the actual campaign (which is highly disliked in the base) then I don't see improvements for Rep-Hispanic relationships.

If Hilary runs she be able to cheese the primaries, who's going to be able to out fund raise her? Who's going to run against her, how little money will she spend in the primary, how big will her war chest be with bill propping her up?
And yes. Obama would back her. Because he wants her to win. Because otherwise all his work will get deleted by the next guy. And the only way the dems can get an anti-SuperPAC judicial ruling is if they hold onto the white house long enough for a rep supreme court justice to pass away.

Meanwhile...
The republican race looks to be another scramble. I could see it being a rumble between the socially more liberal (christy) VS the less government (Rand Paul) VS the tradition (Newt equiv) VS the softer immigration (Rubio) VS the tea party (Palin2016). The issue is... none of these people actually have the same viewpoints at what the Rep party should be. The party is deeply divided.

[Xargoth6634]

To be honest, it was blown out of proportion. Palin was not that bad of a potential VP.

Did you WATCH the VP debates? She was absolutely horrible. She really is not an intelligent person, can you imagine what would happen in the event of an actual crisis? To be fair I want her to run against Hillary in 2016, just so I can watch Hillary annihilate her in every round of debates. It would be a slaughter.

[Pugbot]

At the core, this article is prejudice.
BEFORE YOU FLAME READ ON

Bush gets elected, how many articles made the front page of Fox News saying "Had less shortsighted wanna-be cowboy white people turned out to vote, and more pretentious white D-Bags like Gore turned out to vote, Gore would've won such and such states"

Or how about if our next president is obese. "Had less fat people turned out to vote for Obese President A, then Non Obese Candidate B would've won"

This is a crap discussion, and should also fall under the category of obvious

People vote for who they relate to the most.

[NYC17]

At the core, this article is prejudice.
BEFORE YOU FLAME READ ON

Bush gets elected, how many articles made the front page of Fox News saying "Had less shortsighted wanna-be cowboy white people turned out to vote, and more pretentious white D-Bags like Gore turned out to vote, Gore would've won such and such states"

Or how about if our next president is obese. "Had less fat people turned out to vote for Obese President A, then Non Obese Candidate B would've won"

This is a crap discussion, and should also fall under the category of obvious

People vote for who they relate to the most.

His premise has already been shown to be nonsense multiple times. Your post is accurate, and just adds to what's been established.

[Pugbot]

Bullshit. The fact that Obama is half black was at least a mild boost to him. How many fucking racists do you even meet on a day to day basis? The small swarm of them on their little websites isn't the tip of an iceberg- it's an entire small ice cube, entirely visible.

Racism is negligible. And the very few people who ARE that racist will generally vote against the Democrats anyway.




To address the OP, Obama is a really charismatic and popular president. The Democrats will do a lot worse without him. Especially if they run Clinton.

Not sure where you live and/or how big the rock is, but where I live I can guarantee you that racism can and does play a large part in votes. I live in Missouri, which was close to turning Obama both times as a state, but specifically I live in the Ozarks where if you meet an Obama supporter you might as well take a picture and hang it on a wall. The typical political standpoint around here is a bumper sticker that says "NObama" and on the other side is some bumper sticker supporting the confederate flag, usually an NRA tag somewhere with a Jesus Fish as well, and maybe some sticker indicating the manufacturer of the exhaust or air intake they have installed on their vehicle.
Or they just hang a black effigy with dumbo ears by a rope off a tree limb, but those have been less frequent recently, or displayed where the public cannot easily view them.

[Skroe]

No, he really is just that stupid.

Rick Perry is so stupid apparently, that the Bush crowd / Karl Rove wanted absolutely nothing to do with him after Bush became President and actively tried to undermine him in Texas.

[Arganis]

Does it matter? Doesn't change much imo. After Obama most likely comes Hillary and there's no reason to think she won't make it unless Obama ruins the Democratic brand further with Snowden-type drama or the Republicans finally find a candidate with more charisma than a broomstick.

Honestly Congress is rotten to the bone, only fools still care about what goes on in Washington like they actually have a say in it.

[Xargoth6634]

I would never vote Republican even if someone paid me to. 90% of everyone I know that's a Republican has a inferiority complex, has zero empathy for the misfortunate, and so big into their little religion which leads them to being total hypocrites with how they live their life.

Example: "Dude that's so crazy you don't believe in god. He's blessed my life and I wouldn't be anything without his love and guidance". And then a few minutes later it's "Haha I heard some faggit got beat up at the club last night lolololol what a faggit".

Seriously, Republicans almost... astound me.

Far be it from me to defend republicans, but your anecdotal evidence suggests that either you hang out with a lot of very closeminded religious ones or that you just paint every republican you meet with the same brush and hear what fits in with your stupid stereotypes.

[Puremallace]

Black people have been voting at 80% for Democrats ever since Bill Clinton. States like North Carolina doing some serious Jim Crow shit give black AMERICANS more then enough reason to go with Democrats when we try to expand voting rights and the social safety net.

[Wells]

Due to the many discussions we've had about voter ID wherein you claimed it is simply too difficult for people to move to a different state because they can't afford to do so, I'm going to call the quoted statement a steaming fucking pile of hypocritical shit.

He makes enough money to leave by his own reckoning. And if you choose to take part in our system you have no right to declare the results if that system unlawful if the rules were followed. Its just being a sore loser.