New Mage Talents??

[Consigliari]

Screw frost pvp and your lil imp counterspell, you can learn to pvp without it. But not having icy veins for arcane pve spec is just destroying the spec imo. When they said they were going to make attractable talents just out of reach so that you wish you chose the other spec, I didn't think they were going to take it this far. = (

^ this X 1000

[Deleted]

Crowe, spriests don't revolve around stuns. AFrost mages revolve around chills and freezes

Not a strong argument and even then I'd say, keep Improved Cone of Cold, but get rid of Frostbite. Either that or change the mechanics of Frostbite in some way to make it less RNG.

My issue here is with the RNG, not with the talent itself.

[Hoosiermama]

taadaa!!! christ i hate people who don't read things gouuud.

Fine, let's talk about fire. Taking all the dps talents, you still won't get to Living Bomb. The choices I have left when looking at them are: lower CD on fire blast, a chance to stun, a speed increase for when you get hit, molten armor affecting spells and ranged attacks, a knockback, and a buff to flamestrike.

ooooo, really interesting.

[Bucky Mclachlan]

Fine, let's talk about fire. Taking all the dps talents, you still won't get to Living Bomb. The choices I have left when looking at them are: lower CD on fire blast, a chance to stun, a speed increase for when you get hit, molten armor affecting spells and ranged attacks, a knockback, and a buff to flamestrike.

ooooo, really interesting.

Yes all of those things are in fact like a hundred billion trillblabhalbhdurparupdalllion times more interesting than talents that "increase the critical strike/damage of (spell name) by 2%/4%/8%".

Those talents were never a choice anyways they were mandatory, and merely having the illusion of making a choice is in reality no choice at all.

So in closing: You're wrong. Get over it.

[takolin]

Fine, let's talk about fire. Taking all the dps talents, you still won't get to Living Bomb. The choices I have left when looking at them are: lower CD on fire blast, a chance to stun, a speed increase for when you get hit, molten armor affecting spells and ranged attacks, a knockback, and a buff to flamestrike.

ooooo, really interesting.

How is a buff to flamestrike not a dps increase?

[Abandon]

I guess we just differ on what we find interesting. I like to do a lot of damage. You like to stun things and run around really fast. None of the other talents we have currently are necessary or even desirable in today's raid setting. I have slow in my arcane spec for saurfang, that's about it. A raid leader isn't going to ask you to talent into some damage reduction. Instant invis would be nice on Deathwhisper. I'd be happier with the talent trees if the choices were more interesting and may even produce a dps increase. IA and frost warding are pretty good examples of the "utility" talents that I'd like to see. Something that takes thought, changes your rotation, and can produce a dps increase if done correctly.

So "interesting" to you would be "Increases your damage by 1%". Thrilling.

You have talents that do what you are asking, things like Brain Freeze and Hot Streak and the new Arcane Missiles. They can't make an entire talent tree out of procs though.

edit: I'm sure that a lot of these talents would be DPS increases if you use them right. Blink-sprint would be an obvious one, for the same reason that every raider at the moment uses Tuskarr's Vitality.

[flame]

Hoosiermama:

Those deals X more damage will be removed and baked into Masteries.
Talents will revolve around procs and making spells interesting. Not everything is about maximizing your damage.
And it WILL be fun. Instead of a full cookie cutter spec you will have at most 20 must have talents. You then can put the remaining 10 in any part of the tree.

[Omallies]

One single thing! NO FUCKING WAY!

[wtftruck]

honestly wtf, you mages were totally OP for like 3 seasons and now ur bitching because you got a tiny little nerf. OMG i cant have improved CS i cant play my mage anymore mages are broken im going to quit wow and never play anymore cuz im a whiny bitch. please dont even bother to reroll because your just going to complain about that class too since there is no class as good as a fucking frost mage.

maybe now mages will need some skill to play like all the other classes. Also dont reroll a lock, they are not as good as frost mages, you will be disappointed and bitch in the lock forums. But this is the beta and im sure u mages will bitch enough to get ur little buff so you can be better then everyone else since you guys cant play a normal class

[kaos95]

This is so gonna break my "I WIN" button

[Swizzle]

honestly wtf, you mages were totally OP for like 3 seasons and now ur bitching because you got a tiny little nerf. OMG i cant have improved CS i cant play my mage anymore mages are broken im going to quit wow and never play anymore cuz im a whiny bitch. please dont even bother to reroll because your just going to complain about that class too since there is no class as good as a fucking frost mage.

maybe now mages will need some skill to play like all the other classes. Also dont reroll a lock, they are not as good as frost mages, you will be disappointed and bitch in the lock forums. But this is the beta and im sure u mages will bitch enough to get ur little buff so you can be better then everyone else since you guys cant play a normal class

so my post gets deleted which talks about the AoE buff to fire but this stays? mods are super awesome fun time yeah.

[starkilleralfa]

Blizzard the forum trolls outnumber us 3 to 1 !
Then its an even fight...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
* As sayd already before these talent trees are 50% placeholders 50% what is already done in the trees ...*
Stop whining and wait till the next beta patch comes talentbiatches * I always wanted to say that *

<>JOKE<>
And ofcourse blizzard always wanted this to happen and ofc they will leave it the same and go live and nerf you till the ground till you cry and beg for talent mercy but they wont give it to you they gona laugh at you and nerf the talent trees even more moehahahaahahahahahahahaa....

[Abandon]

so my post gets deleted which talks about the AoE buff to fire but this stays? mods are super awesome fun time yeah.

It might not be gone, it might just be, erm...missing. The forums are acting funny, a few times my posts have shown up random places in the thread, including before the person I replied to. And some others wouldn't show up, even after refreshing, but showed up like 10 minutes later.

[Tayla]

i...i am really going to miss FM as a firemage.
...
Also...i really am uncomfortable with the current fire mage talents as they look.
However i am reserving judgement until i see the final shit.

[Deleted]

Well as it is now, the arcane tree just plain sucks. There's so many filler talents there it's not even funny. The rest is just uninteresting mostly. I mean 3% of the maximum mana added as SP after using mana gem just sounds kinda boring or talents such as arcane repulsion? Mage armor is the anti-caster armor. Against melee, it's better to use frost even as arcane.

Aso the arcane tactics talent? No personal benefit added. I for one won't be taking it as someone else in the raid might have.. or better yet, another class that also gets personal use out of a similar talent.

[flame]

ita i agree in most of your points.
I think Arcane repulsion it is good. There is no such thing as pure caster teams or pure melee teams(well, most of times anyway)

[Skarrd]

There's really nothing else to take in place of arcane tactics. 1/3 Burning Soul is about it... strictly for pve, that is.

[Swizzle]

Well as it is now, the arcane tree just plain sucks. There's so many filler talents there it's not even funny. The rest is just uninteresting mostly. I mean 3% of the maximum mana added as SP after using mana gem just sounds kinda boring or talents such as arcane repulsion? Mage armor is the anti-caster armor. Against melee, it's better to use frost even as arcane.

Aso the arcane tactics talent? No personal benefit added. I for one won't be taking it as someone else in the raid might have.. or better yet, another class that also gets personal use out of a similar talent.

Swift Retribution, Sanctified Retribution, and Rampage would like a word with you.

[Quicks]

Fist of all I would like to say:

1. Awesome job.
2. I'm aware things will change since this is a first showing in Beta (That said, please don't change too much for mages )

I sat and honestly enjoyed sifting through each talent in each tree smiling the whole way. For the first time I feel like I might play a spec just for the spec even if statistically it came out slightly behind another. I feel like each spec is separated enough from another to support different play styles not just slightly differing rotations. I get the feeling that mage may be one of the more complete talent trees out there at the minute, but if this is anything to go by there's definitely hope for the ones that are still very much works in progress.

There are a few things that worry me slightly about the new leveling/talent system in it's entirety:

Though leveling looks like it will finally be an enjoyable experience with a real rewarding feeling for every level or so (Like the days of Diablo 2) I do get the impression that with the removal of path of the titans end game options might still be scarce - even though I don't dislike the stripping of all the fat. I can't say this for certain and I'm not going to pass judgement till I'm at the end of the release's raid content. One of the things I liked about bigger talent trees was my constant revision though it would only be changing one or two points from the current EJ build. Time will tell.

Also will we be compensated for all the range talents disappearing?

Those worries aside it's time to look at the powerhouse funbag that is the cata mage

Arcane talents that rock:

Improved Blink - Seriously any movement based talent is awesome eg blazing speed and that shield sprint priest thing. One of the things that always felt great about a mage was mobility. This and time warp compound this feeling, essentially keeping the class light on its feet.

Arcane Repulsion - Nuff said, seriously

Improved Arcane Missiles - I'm a fan of making arcane feel like arcane which to me is a Gatling gun. This talent and what seems to be the new missile barrage really drive that point home.

Improved Polymorph - A cool & clever little mechanic, which are always my favorite kind.

Invocation - This is a REALLY GOOD IDEA. Finally a little motivation to do what people should be doing: helping out with interrupts.

Improved Mana Gem - combines well with the mastery plus I really miss the T7 bonus.

Arcane talents that need work or need to go:

Torment the Weak - The issue with this talent is that in a pve sense it's a null point. It's always active and ends out being a flat bonus most of the time. In a pvp sense if you're good with slow it's the same deal. I can't say it should be removed because it's possibly very important damage padding but it still doesn't feel right. Regardless if left the same it doesn't make a bad T1 talent BUT it will be mandatory to any raid build let's be honest. That's not really in the vein of the new trees so keep that in mind.

Incanter's Absorption - I'm torn on this talent. I love its concept and it feels truly arcane in nature but unless mage ward and mana shield get some serious buff it will be meaningless. In addition if arcane is all about high mana no one will want to waste it on mana shield (plus the talent to reduce its mana chow rate is gone so the ability itself will have to change considerably).

Arcane as a spec overall looks to be a fast paced thinking mans mage. With mana management become hugely prevalent as well as timing CDs. It will be all about knowing a fight backwards which is never a bad thing. It shoulg lend itself to polish and timing. This is a pretty dramatic shift from the dump mage it was to the more refined management mage it is in wrath atm. GJ.

Fire talents that rock:

Improved Fire Blast - This is here cause I like range, looks like fire blast is becoming a sniper shot which combined with impact = pvp fun.

Blazing Speed - correct me if I'm wrong but this didn't free you from stuff when it proced in the past?

Improved Scorch - Pvp scorch spam is really really fun :P yes I play fire in pvp sometimes.

Pyromaniac - I love this because it feels like fire. Spreading wild fire, the tree overall feels like it's about unleashing.

Combustion - I like the dot combining effect though I would caution that it needs to be powerful enough to not mess with Critical Mass or it might be ignored.

Critical Mass - DoT watch, love it. Feels like fire.

Fire talents that need work or need to go:

Incineration[b/] - Meh

[b]Molten Shields - I just feel like, like before this isn't worth my points. Maybe bring back the reflect thing.

Fire Power - Flat bonus, though i get that these can't always all go. Maybe add something to do with Ignite or mastery DoT being able to spread to other targets? A spreading flame thing? Dunno. Might want flames to spark or ember off. Maybe make this the flame orb detonation thing, that sounded fun.

Fire mages feel more like fire mages than ever.

Frost talents that rock:

Not a talent but getting Water Elemental early is great.

Piercing Chill - now if only we had mob groups like D2 :P My big question is will this massively up the proc rate of Fingers when casting single target frost spells into a group of mobs?

Frostfire Orb - Clever move.

Frost talents that need work or need to go:

Not really sure here... Frost has essentially undergone the least changes of and spec though it's rotation will likely change a lot. It's a pity that a leveling fire or arcane mage won't be able to have fun with the more mass-useful shatter.

Frost sounds like fun again. I love the ele and icy veins>fingers>deep freeze>cold snap>deep freeze>icy veins (SO awesome, though needs reduced threat cause it's like a bloody taunt) in pve, it was just never competitive. Hope it will be in cata since it would be wonderful to see a 25 man with three different speced mages.

[heerobya]

Frost sounds like fun again. I love the ele and icy veins>fingers>deep freeze>cold snap>deep freeze>icy veins (SO awesome, though needs reduced threat cause it's like a bloody taunt) in pve, it was just never competitive. Hope it will be in cata since it would be wonderful to see a 25 man with three different speced mages.

I really hope Frost is good/competitive because I don't want to ever be anything but a frost mage.