8.1 PTR Leveling Experience Reduced, Fifth Azerite Armor Ring Added, Raid Testing

Originally Posted by panalfik

Good, now remove heirlooms as wearable gear to make leveling somewhat engaging. Most of the leveling gear goes in the garbage bin because everyone and their dog are fully clad in heirlooms. I don't know how that's good gameplay design - WoW is built entirely around gearing up and that aspect of the game doesn't exist during leveling for the most part. No wonder leveling feels trash and unrewarding. The experience bonus for veteran players can be preserved in other ways such as a simple passive buff. #makelevelinggearrelevantagain

Heirlooms make leveling much better. We earned the right to use them. If you don't want them just don't use them.

Originally Posted by Varleen

Heirlooms make leveling much better. We earned the right to use them. If you don't want them just don't use them.

It's even easier than ever considering most rewards come at the exact same itemlevel as the heirlooms are at that point.

Originally Posted by Mishkara

Hoped they'd improve the experience of the leveling process itself instead of just buffing the XP to push you to endgame faster, and get you out of the "drag" leveling has become due to neglecting it for so long.

Just out of curiosity, but short of redoing the entire leveling quest experience, a-la Cataclysm, how do you propose to "improve the leveling process" instead of only lowering the XP requirement for the next level?

I'm fine with adjusting the XP needed.

Ideally leveling would be much shorter but challenging and engaging.

Ah good, my nightborne monk has been sitting at 71 for the past 4 months because I'm a lazy shit.

Originally Posted by fishoa

how to fix azerite gear: add more azerite rings

L
O
L

Somebody clearly missed the point...

L
O
L

Originally Posted by Varleen

Heirlooms make leveling much better. We earned the right to use them. If you don't want them just don't use them.

You didn't earn shit. If something ultimately results in poor and unengaging gameplay then it's bad for the game, even if it makes the game "easier" for lazy people. Also, I'm really tired of seeing everyone wear the same beaten heirloom sets. Really kills the mood and any aesthetic value of leveling characters.

The Experience Change in no way requires waiting for 8.1, it is just a table update and they could roll it anytime they chose to.

Originally Posted by panalfik

You didn't earn shit. If something ultimately results in poor and unengaging gameplay then it's bad for the game, even if it makes the game "easier" for lazy people. Also, I'm really tired of seeing everyone wear the same beaten heirloom sets. Really kills the mood and any aesthetic value of leveling characters.

The only thing that's bad for the game is increasing the gate to get to the actual game which blizzard is finally starting to realize far too late. There is a reason the forums were on fire post 7.3.5 and have been slowly quieting down since. People are quitting it isn't fun to do the same grind again but longer. Before I could get a new class up in around 15 hours it was boring but at least it wasn't long.

Wow, I am genuinely shocked. Blizzard actually is listening. This changes some things...

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by ZeroWashu

The Experience Change in no way requires waiting for 8.1, it is just a table update and they could roll it anytime they chose to.

True, but likely they haven't settled on the numbers yet. That they are considering it is pretty significant.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Khaza-R

I'm fine with adjusting the XP needed.

Ideally leveling would be much shorter but challenging and engaging.

Challenging? No. Engaging? Yes.

Originally Posted by Xath

The only thing that's bad for the game is increasing the gate to get to the actual game which blizzard is finally starting to realize far too late.

The actual game should start at level 1, not at level 120. That's the actual problem, not slow leveling.

How about making leveling far harder and more engaging instead of making it last for less time?

Buff the damage of most enemies by 200%,and we're talking

Originally Posted by Ielenia

Just out of curiosity, but short of redoing the entire leveling quest experience, a-la Cataclysm, how do you propose to "improve the leveling process" instead of only lowering the XP requirement for the next level?

I've played through the cataclysm leveling revamp for the most part, and the quests themselves are well made. I think they are better than BFA quests. However, the overall experience of doing these quests i personally find lacking, because of game design decisions that rendered them to be mindless tasks that alongside lack of challenge, also lacked socialization opportunities that would naturally occur if met with any struggle or downtime during the questing.

On top of this, sharding further reduced any motivation for me to bond with other players as i quest through the world, since they pop in and out whenever and wherever, add on top of that the lack of a struggle to overcome and potentially just spamming LFD (which again, is supporting a pretty anti social, hardly challenging leveling experience, and takes you out of the world instantly), and it all becomes nothing but what feels like a slow drag to endgame, where all the fun is supposed to start.

It's great if you can't be bothered with any downtime or "unnecessary" socialization, and want high efficiency to get to endgame as fast as possible, maybe watch netflix on the side because the content is not engaging enough. But for me (and i realize i'm not the type of player WoW caters to currently) i would want engaging content, which to me comes with challenging enemies (player or npc), rewarding exploration, an intact community i can see out in the world and bond with over challenging content (which also means combat downtime to support that further), and regular gear/ability/talent and profession progress that visibly changes my character's power as i level up.
Basically, what i want is the leveling not to feel like a grind, and instead embrace more of the RPG element of the game which has been neglected to add depth to the process. I think 120 levels at this point seems overwhelming with the current leveling design, but if i have a good time getting there (and once i get there aswell), it becomes nothing but a number i'll eventually get to as i play the game.

Once it starts to feel like a grind, and i see the treadmill in front of me because i'm not engaged/have fun, i'll feel every single bit of experience i still lack to get to max level. To combat this I'd have to put on heirlooms to further increase my characters powers and xp gain, and summon a choiffeur to ride me from A to B as fast as possible starting from level 1 (if i even had one) to get to the end of this time gate as quickly as i can, understandably. Or i save myself the trouble and spend money to keep the suffering as short as possible. This additionally further reduces any attachment i have to my character, because they are very swiftly interchangable if i ever run into trouble (which is also important to go through in my opinion to have a worthwhile experience in the game), alongside being very unlikely to have any lasting reputation in the community due to the vast amount of players fleetingly coming together through sharding.

Just as the endgame, it becomes about optimization and a tunnel vision to the goal/s set by that player, and a community which has a big focus on these values, which is good if you are that type of player, and Blizzard should also cater to this type. Which they did again with the decrease in XP needed, to ease the pain so you can get to the actual fun part Blizzard puts all their attention on quicker. I want a fun time wherever i'm at in the game, preferably making friends along the way, and they have the capability to create that type of content as well.. if they want to.

Originally Posted by fishoa

how to fix azerite gear: add more azerite rings

L
O
L

Its pretty disappointing that comments like this *actually influence people's opinions*.

Take a complex subject, narrow it down to one specific section of it that supports your stance, regurgitate it sarcastically and eat the doots.

More choice, better traits, less grinding to unlock them. All things people asked for.

Originally Posted by Mishkara

I've played through the cataclysm leveling revamp for the most part, and the quests themselves are well made. I think they are better than BFA quests. However, the overall experience of doing these quests i personally find lacking, because of game design decisions that rendered them to be mindless tasks that alongside lack of challenge, also lacked socialization opportunities that would naturally occur if met with any struggle or downtime during the questing.

Ok. Questing today is not different from questing back them. It's the same fetch quests, kill X number of mobs quests, kill specific mob quests, and delivery quests. What changed is that the mini-map and world map now show where you need to go for said quests. But in the past we had addons like QuestHelper. There were group quests that required you to group up with others, but, in my experience, back then, people would rather skip them than do them. I had a tough time, for example, throughout TBC to find even a single player to help kill Durn the Hungerer, or worse, the Ring of Blood quests. After the first tier of raiding back in Wrath, I had to depend on my guildmates to help me finish the group quests in Icecrown.

On top of this, sharding further reduced any motivation for me to bond with other players as i quest through the world, since they pop in and out whenever and wherever, add on top of that the lack of a struggle to overcome and potentially just spamming LFD (which again, is supporting a pretty anti social, hardly challenging leveling experience, and takes you out of the world instantly), and it all becomes nothing but what feels like a slow drag to endgame, where all the fun is supposed to start.

I honestly don't understand the issue with sharding, especially since what you're describing "people popping in and out whenever and wherever" has only usually happened to me while I'm on the back of a gryphon during a taxi flight, and even then only to other people in a taxi flight around me. It only happens on the ground to me when I join or leave a cross-realm group.

It's great if you can't be bothered with any downtime or "unnecessary" socialization, and want high efficiency to get to endgame as fast as possible, maybe watch netflix on the side because the content is not engaging enough. But for me (and i realize i'm not the type of player WoW caters to currently) i would want engaging content, which to me comes with challenging enemies (player or npc), rewarding exploration, an intact community i can see out in the world and bond with over challenging content (which also means combat downtime to support that further), and regular gear/ability/talent and profession progress that visibly changes my character's power as i level up.

About the "socialization" part, that's a player problem, not a game problem, unfortunately. You can't blame Blizzard for players opting to use the tools that fit their desires better, instead of your desires. Yes, Blizzard created those tools, but isn't that what they are supposed to do, make the game more fun for their audience? Blizzard is not "forcing" anyone. Blizzard also created a "communities" feature, where you can join other communities to socialize.

As for your power progression thing, I think it is kind of at odds at your desire to face "challenging content". What challenge is there if, in two or three levels, you're stronger than anything else around you to the point that you could AFK to go prepare a sandwich, and when you return, you're still alive with over half your health while being ganged by a few mobs?

Basically, what i want is the leveling not to feel like a grind, and instead embrace more of the RPG element of the game which has been neglected to add depth to the process. I think 120 levels at this point seems overwhelming with the current leveling design, but if i have a good time getting there (and once i get there aswell), it becomes nothing but a number i'll eventually get to as i play the game.

Blizzard has greatly reduced the leveling experience required to level up as the years went by. If I remember things correctly, you would take longer to reach level 60 or 70 back during vanilla or TBC, respectively, than you take to reach level 120 today. Also, what RPG elements, specifically, are you talking about? Because your character does gain power as they level up, they do gain more abilities, and its appearance does change as well.

Once it starts to feel like a grind, and i see the treadmill in front of me because i'm not engaged/have fun, i'll feel every single bit of experience i still lack to get to max level. To combat this I'd have to put on heirlooms to further increase my characters powers and xp gain, and summon a choiffeur to ride me from A to B as fast as possible starting from level 1 (if i even had one) to get to the end of this time gate as quickly as i can, understandably. Or i save myself the trouble and spend money to keep the suffering as short as possible. This additionally further reduces any attachment i have to my character, because they are very swiftly interchangable if i ever run into trouble (which is also important to go through in my opinion to have a worthwhile experience in the game), alongside being very unlikely to have any lasting reputation in the community due to the vast amount of players fleetingly coming together through sharding.

Going by the assumption you're a long-time player, I imagine you've gone through the leveling process at least a handful of times. I'm also assuming you're not the type who creates a new character to level with the express intention of leveling it. You'd level a new one for heritage armor, or a new main character, or a new alt to work as an alchemist/jewelcrafter/whatever profession to make you self-sufficient. In this case, no matter how "engaging" leveling it, it'll grow boring for you, eventually.

Just as the endgame, it becomes about optimization and a tunnel vision to the goal/s set by that player, and a community which has a big focus on these values, which is good if you are that type of player, and Blizzard should also cater to this type. Which they did again with the decrease in XP needed, to ease the pain so you can get to the actual fun part Blizzard puts all their attention on quicker. I want a fun time wherever i'm at in the game, preferably making friends along the way, and they have the capability to create that type of content as well.. if they want to.

No matter what is done to the leveling experience, there will always be people who will treat you the way you're describing. Always. There'll always be people looking for the fastest methods to level, or the easiest paths to go through. And I'm sorry, but no matter what Blizzard does to the leveling system, even if they do exactly what you're asking for, eventually you'll be right back where you are right now: complaining about how boring the leveling system is.

It sounds too good to be true. Where is the trick?

Originally Posted by Clozer

the game is about character progression not about gearing. Gearing is a part of character progression so is leveling up.

But if you don't acquire gear through leveling because you're full heirloom you aren't progressing through gear since you don't get gear so that makes getting gear not progressive.

Not enough , should have been closer to 50% across the board. Or keep it as it is on PTR, but buff heirloom exp by double what it is now.

I don't see how the Azerite gear change actually makes life better other than making a BiS even narrower in definition.

Here is what I mean. Say you have traits A, B, C, D and E from most to least effective. Now I need to find a piece of gear with trait A on. With an extra ring I know need to find Azerite with both traits A and B on different rings.

What is happening, because of fixed traits, is taking the relatively small amount of set ups available and making the amount that are good even smaller.


Isn't this exactly the same mistake that the Netherlight crucible ended up having?

Originally Posted by ONCHEhap

How about making leveling far harder and more engaging instead of making it last for less time?

Buff the damage of most enemies by 200%,and we're talking

I'll take, shit that becomes a boring grind quickly for 600, Alex.

I'd rather see them make clever use of the new AI, and making the world less predictable.
Short of them designing every mob individually with randomized abilities and damage, I don't see how 200% more damage achieves anything. You just pull 1 mob instead of 2 or 3 or make use of kiting/slows, not exactly brain surgery.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by javierdsv

It sounds too good to be true. Where is the trick?

Leveling from 110-120, XP required increased by 500% with a gold tax for every minute spent over the 1-hour range of /played at each level!!!