[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[PACOX]

Yeah, it shows that immature children having temper tantrums can rule if they have the Force.

What?

Kylo has military experience.

Know who else only had military experience when they became the 2nd most powerful man in the galaxy...Darth Vader.

[Dormie]

I feel like if you don't think TLJ was a steaming pile of trash you're just blind in a way. Star Wars movies should be great, not on par with Thor Ragnarok. There's a difference between having comic relief and having a one-liner every 90 seconds. The actor might as well have winked at the camera after each joke. As far a a movie goes, sure, it's fine, if you consider most of the big budget pictures being pumped out fine. As far as a Star Wars movie goes, it's an abomination. I'm not even a Star Wars "fan", I'm just someone who enjoyed Star Wars movies.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yeah, it shows that immature children having temper tantrums can rule if they have the Force.

I really wonder what the movie sets up. It essentially killed off all support for the characters on both sides, but the way this franchise works now the empire probably still has the ability to pull another army out of their asses. They will probably resurrect poor Christie (the only actually strong female character) once more to have another 1 or 2 lines of dialogue.

So what are the rebells supposed to do now? They have an ace pilot, a janitor, a chubby chinese fan-girl, admittedly Med'an^Jesus(Rey) and a wookie with a small population of porgs nesting on his ship. Will they now suddenly pretend the rest of galaxy does indeed exist after all? The old guard is out of the picture, be it by bad writing or neccessity; with the exception of maybe Lando who might make a comeback. As for plot strings, all the things that were set up previously have been either dropped or unceremoniously resolved. I guess they could pretend that Rey's heritage is after all more, but that would just feel cheap now, more so than the forced (no pun intended) message we have currently.

The only thing that was actually set up here, besides the overall new constellation, is that maybe Rey (who is a blank slate without leadership character) will suddenly, maybe, probably, kinda, ..., found a jedi school (that would only work with a major time skip and she has even less of a clue about that than luke had..) and that the unstable guy with the nice black hair now is the leader of the baddies and they will obviously follow him, because reasons. Rose and Finn have no real goal left besides helping the good guys, Poe is the only good guy left with some leadership skills and he got shat on hard during this movie in that regard, Chewie is probably the next one to bite the dust and he is only around as one of the last 4 nostalgia set-pieces (chewie, millenium falcon, R2D2 and C3PO). Overall the rebells are still the underdogs and what ever the empire - err I mean the new order - happens to be now, depends on what ever Abrams forces on it, to make it somehow work with his vision.

And that is the problem imho. I mean, Johnson already admitted that they have no idea for the overall story of this trilogy and the next guy just has to make something out of what the last guy left him/her with, like in a cheap boardgame where the current director's turn just ended and the next one can only top-deck the next plot point. While I have little to no hope that the next film will be any good, I have this morbid curiousity and will watch the next one just to see how Abrams will try to make anything even remotely decent out of this situation. I also wonder if Johnson will actually get his own trilogy now, but disney/lucas films will not let that slip for another few weeks to milk the current one with the least amount of controversy possible.

[PACOX]

if you consider most of the big budget pictures being pumped out fine. As far as a Star Wars movie goes, it's an abomination. I'm not even a Star Wars "fan", I'm just someone who enjoyed Star Wars movies.

SW isn't another big budget movie?

SW lives and dies by the screen.

At least when people complain about superhero movies "not being true to the original" they have comic books to site. SW? Whats the basis behind saying Luke wouldn't exile himself when we only know him from 3 movies from 40 years ago? Even then that was on his path to defeat the Empire, not a biopic called Who is Luke Skywalker? When all he knows as a Jedi is a history of failed Jedi and what he learned from 2 Jedi Masters who also exiled themselves? Was he not supposed to change as person? Is there some other canon material that says he would never exile himself?

Jokes? The only movie that truly took itself seriously was perhaps AOTC, and it suffered. I don't feel like any of the jokes were at the expense of the overall plot or SW universe, except for maybe the casino planet.


its not like SW hasn't being doing stuff like this for 40 years

[Macaquerie]

At least when people complain about superhero movies "not being true to the original" they have comic books to site. SW? Whats the basis behind saying Luke wouldn't exile himself when we only know him from 3 movies from 40 years ago? Even then that was on his path to defeat the Empire, not a biopic called Who is Luke Skywalker? When all he knows as a Jedi is a history of failed Jedi and what he learned from 2 Jedi Masters who also exiled themselves? Was he not supposed to change as person? Is there some other canon material that says he would never exile himself?

Well if you base your understanding of Luke on the old expanded universe version, where he was quite a badass who continued to have cool adventures all over the galaxy, successfully reignited the Jedi, and even scored himself a girlfriend, then maybe seeing in this movie, where he comes off less as a wise old master and more like a washed up, out of work actor, is a bit of an unwelcome shock.

[ohwell]

I approve of this post. People complaining about certain things in TLJ and TFA need to go rewatch the originals.

Comparing the two recent film to ANH and ESB would be like comparing Dragon Soul to Blackwing Lair and saying that because it was bad it gives excuse for recent ones to be bad. Stories for movies in every aspect have gotten way better and there's no excuse for shit storytelling. Instead look at something recent and compare it to it's predecessors while in mirror comparing the SW old and new and see what happens

[PACOX]

Well if you base your understanding of Luke on the old expanded universe version, where he was quite a badass who continued to have cool adventures all over the galaxy, successfully reignited the Jedi, and even scored himself a girlfriend, then maybe seeing in this movie, where he comes off less as a wise old master and more like a washed up, out of work actor, is a bit of an unwelcome shock.

Canon Luke and EU Luke are two completly different characters though. I think they were going for a less insightful more cynical Yoda.

[Macaquerie]

Comparing the two recent film to ANH and ESB would be like comparing Dragon Soul to Blackwing Lair and saying that because it was bad it gives excuse for recent ones to be bad. Stories for movies in every aspect have gotten way better and there's no excuse for shit storytelling. Instead look at something recent and compare it to it's predecessors while in mirror comparing the SW old and new and see what happens

Stories have gotten better in every aspect? I thought the consensus was that movies these days were all dumbed down and merchandise driven? If nothing else, the sequel trilogy fits in with the general trend. By contrast, the time period in which the original trilogy came out was considered to be a golden age of cinema where a lot of directors pushed the boundaries of creativity to tell their stories, while Star Wars was little more than a special effects laden vehicle to sell toys, with a recycled plot and wooden characters.

Canon Luke and EU Luke are two completly different characters though. I think they were going for a less insightful more cynical Yoda.

Yeah, I'm just saying that because the EU Luke is the one that a lot of millennial age people would've grown up with, since most of us weren't actually born when the movies came out. And the problem with wiping stories from canon is that they continue to exist in reality, so that they'll continue to exert some influence over future stories. For example, Kylo Ren basically combined the design of Darth Revan from KotOR with the backstory of Jacen Solo from the novels, neither of which technically exist in the same universe.

[ohwell]

Stories have gotten better in every aspect? I thought the consensus was that movies these days were all dumbed down and merchandise driven? If nothing else, the sequel trilogy fits in with the general trend. By contrast, the time period in which the original trilogy came out was considered to be a golden age of cinema where a lot of directors pushed the boundaries of creativity to tell their stories, while Star Wars was little more than a special effects laden vehicle to sell toys, with a recycled plot and wooden characters.



Yeah, I'm just saying that because the EU Luke is the one that a lot of millennial age people would've grown up with, since most of us weren't actually born when the movies came out. And the problem with wiping stories from canon is that they continue to exist in reality, so that they'll continue to exert some influence over future stories. For example, Kylo Ren basically combined the design of Darth Revan from KotOR with the backstory of Jacen Solo from the novels, neither of which technically exist in the same universe.

Movies in general, not stories in general. And what consensus? Compare the top 100 movies of 2017 with the top 100 movies of 1977 and tell me how they add up collectively. The storyline in a lot of older movies was just awful if it wasn't an adaptation of a book and even then many were still bad. Hell the first 20 individually can blow most of them out of the water if you look at the list. You cannot compare movies to their predecessors in a vacuum and that is fact.

[Shadowferal]

What? Kylo has military experience. Know who else only had military experience when they became the 2nd most powerful man in the galaxy...Darth Vader.

Yeah, lets point back to the big badass that Star Wars ever created..and is trying to get rid of..in favor of a child tantrum-flinging non-entity.

[tyrlaan]

I feel like if you don't think TLJ was a steaming pile of trash you're just blind in a way.

What's strange is apparently, per your statement, I'm blind since I don't think it was a "steaming pile of trash", but I both read your hyperbolic mess that insults people that liked the movie AND was able to type this response without a braille keyboard.

So weird.

I really wonder what the movie sets up. It essentially killed off all support for the characters on both sides, but the way this franchise works now the empire probably still has the ability to pull another army out of their asses. They will probably resurrect poor Christie (the only actually strong female character) once more to have another 1 or 2 lines of dialogue.

How much of the First Order's military force was really taken out in this movie? Sure Snoke is dead and they lost a couple big ships, but other than that...? I don't think they need to resort to ass-pulling anytime soon.

I only want to see more of Christie if they actually do something with the character. I kind of feel like they hoped to have a Boba Fett 2.0 on their hands, but honestly Fett was just a stroke of luck/lightning in a bottle kind of thing. And she's the only strong female character...? So Leia, Rey, and Holdo were weaksauce?

So what are the rebells supposed to do now? They have an ace pilot, a janitor, a chubby chinese fan-girl, admittedly Med'an^Jesus(Rey) and a wookie with a small population of porgs nesting on his ship. Will they now suddenly pretend the rest of galaxy does indeed exist after all? The old guard is out of the picture, be it by bad writing or neccessity; with the exception of maybe Lando who might make a comeback. As for plot strings, all the things that were set up previously have been either dropped or unceremoniously resolved. I guess they could pretend that Rey's heritage is after all more, but that would just feel cheap now, more so than the forced (no pun intended) message we have currently.

As you may recall, they sent distress signals out to the rest of the galaxy, so not sure why you think they were pretending the rest of the galaxy doesn't exist.

Aye the old guard is out of the picture, but then I'm pretty sure Kylo was meta-speaking when he said "Kill the past." For better or worse, this movie charted a new course for what to expect from SW movies, and I think that line was there for the audience as much as Rey, to tell us that this "isn't your father's Star Wars trilogy."

And that is the problem imho. I mean, Johnson already admitted that they have no idea for the overall story of this trilogy and the next guy just has to make something out of what the last guy left him/her with, like in a cheap boardgame where the current director's turn just ended and the next one can only top-deck the next plot point. While I have little to no hope that the next film will be any good, I have this morbid curiousity and will watch the next one just to see how Abrams will try to make anything even remotely decent out of this situation. I also wonder if Johnson will actually get his own trilogy now, but disney/lucas films will not let that slip for another few weeks to milk the current one with the least amount of controversy possible.

Was that really stated? Because that is worrying. If you are going to deliberately make a trilogy, you should have a plan for it.

Well if you base your understanding of Luke on the old expanded universe version, where he was quite a badass who continued to have cool adventures all over the galaxy, successfully reignited the Jedi, and even scored himself a girlfriend, then maybe seeing in this movie, where he comes off less as a wise old master and more like a washed up, out of work actor, is a bit of an unwelcome shock.

Except you shouldn't. The announcement they were dismissing the EU as canon got plenty of publicity, such that if you are aware of the EU, you know it's not canon.

Yeah, lets point back to the big badass that Star Wars ever created..and is trying to get rid of..in favor of a child tantrum-flinging non-entity.

What do you mean by "trying to get rid of" Darth Vader?

[eschatological]

Stories have gotten better in every aspect? I thought the consensus was that movies these days were all dumbed down and merchandise driven? If nothing else, the sequel trilogy fits in with the general trend. By contrast, the time period in which the original trilogy came out was considered to be a golden age of cinema where a lot of directors pushed the boundaries of creativity to tell their stories, while Star Wars was little more than a special effects laden vehicle to sell toys, with a recycled plot and wooden characters.



Yeah, I'm just saying that because the EU Luke is the one that a lot of millennial age people would've grown up with, since most of us weren't actually born when the movies came out. And the problem with wiping stories from canon is that they continue to exist in reality, so that they'll continue to exert some influence over future stories. For example, Kylo Ren basically combined the design of Darth Revan from KotOR with the backstory of Jacen Solo from the novels, neither of which technically exist in the same universe.

The EU is majority trash-level. I could write better stories than the vast majority of the EU. So then you have to come to a decision, as Disney - keep the EU, trash and all, and have an incoherent universe where Luke is an unstoppable badass with a girlfriend, but also ridiculous nonsense. Or, you can trash the entire EU, and do it with the movies being the only canon, and some newer cartoons. And then you get to write your own stories. And maybe you bring in a few of the better, higher quality stories into your new canon, which they seem to be doing (at least in the cartoons).

P.S. I grew up in the 80s, with the OT, and all my friends and I are huge Star Wars fans - but we've never once picked up the EU. You know why? Because we read a novel here or there, once, in the 90s, and recognized them for largely what they were: fan-fictiony romance-novel-level trash. Maybe you want to argue millennials grew up with the EU because that's all they had in the wasteland between the OT and the prequels and since the trash prequels, and that should be respected, but millennials and everyone with any taste also has disregarded those movies as anything worthwhile a long time ago.

[Sunseeker]

What do you mean by "trying to get rid of" Darth Vader?

It's just your usual "These new guys are trying to destroy everything we ever loved!" bullshit. I'm certain his response will include slams against SJWs, Disney princesses and beta males.

[Usagi Senshi]

I feel like if you don't think TLJ was a steaming pile of trash you're just blind in a way. Star Wars movies should be great, not on par with Thor Ragnarok. There's a difference between having comic relief and having a one-liner every 90 seconds. The actor might as well have winked at the camera after each joke. As far a a movie goes, sure, it's fine, if you consider most of the big budget pictures being pumped out fine. As far as a Star Wars movie goes, it's an abomination. I'm not even a Star Wars "fan", I'm just someone who enjoyed Star Wars movies.

This is about how I felt as well. decent popcorn shoveling movie but a shitty Star Wars movie. I'll probably just be renting the last one and skipping the troubled Han Solo solo (lol) flick altogether.

Insidious 4 and Black Panther will probably end up being the seasons best movies for me.

[Shadowferal]

It's just your usual "These new guys are trying to destroy everything we ever loved!" bullshit. I'm certain his response will include slams against SJWs, Disney princesses and beta males.

OH? Are you trying to say that "throwing out the past" wasn't the shitty message of the shitty movie?

[Sunseeker]

OH? Are you trying to say that "throwing out the past" wasn't the shitty message of the shitty movie?

Yes. I'm saying that's all in your head.

[Shadowferal]

Yes. I'm saying that's all in your head.

It seems you might have missed a few things...no wonder you think the movie was any good.

[tyrlaan]

P.S. I grew up in the 80s, with the OT, and all my friends and I are huge Star Wars fans - but we've never once picked up the EU. You know why? Because we read a novel here or there, once, in the 90s, and recognized them for largely what they were: fan-fictiony romance-novel-level trash. Maybe you want to argue millennials grew up with the EU because that's all they had in the wasteland between the OT and the prequels and since the trash prequels, and that should be respected, but millennials and everyone with any taste also has disregarded those movies as anything worthwhile a long time ago.

Grew up on the OT as well and generally feel the same about the EU, with only a few exceptions. The big one being the trilogy written by Timothy Zahn, often referred to as the "Thrawn Trilogy". You could "see" movies while reading them, very true to the characters, etc.

OH? Are you trying to say that "throwing out the past" wasn't the shitty message of the shitty movie?

Yes. I'm saying that's all in your head.

Oh it absolutely was a major theme of the movie. But you are interpreting it in a weird way. It means two things:

1) In the Movie - don't let the past dictate your future.

2) Out of the Movie (a.k.a. to the audience) - don't let your expectations formed from what you've seen in previous movies dictate what you expect in these movies

It most certainly does not mean "getting rid of" Darth Vader.

[Deleted]

Leia's space flying scene was pretty bad and unneeded imo.

The rest was fine.

The worst people in the history of humankind, yes worse then Hitler, is the #NotMYLuke people. They need to get over themselves and their teenage ego.

worse than hitler ? churchill stalin mao roosevelt

[Sunseeker]

Oh it absolutely was a major theme of the movie. But you are interpreting it in a weird way. It means two things:

1) In the Movie - don't let the past dictate your future.

2) Out of the Movie (a.k.a. to the audience) - don't let your expectations formed from what you've seen in previous movies dictate what you expect in these movies

It most certainly does not mean "getting rid of" Darth Vader.

See I can totally buy that argument.