"Cynically negative" community cause of communication breakdown

[Sylvaeres]

In a recent Blizzard post, Ornyx insists that it is the "cynically negative" community at fault for the communication breakdown between Blizzard and the community:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=6#post-116
He fails to see "any reason why it would be in our best interest to actively engage with" this part of the community.

My response is simply this: if a community manager does not wish to manage and participate with the community then they should immediately resign and find someone who is willing to try. If that is how they really feel, we will continue stuck in this limbo state indefinitely as long as they're around.

It is not helpful in the slightest when one side has clearly given up attempting to manage the community as a community manager. There is nothing more frustrating than employees who stick around when they have clearly given up and burnt out. Be the change they want us to be.

You proved his point. Instead of breaking it down, and admitting fault, you still fingerpoint.

[IceMan1763]

It starts at the top. Ion sets the Mythic raiding community up to be decimated and burnt out with their ridiculous grinds, lack of any type of cap system, which forces them to tune mythic raids for people who play the game 60 hours a week. THEN he goes on a Q&A and blames the GUILD LEADERS for people burning out because they are trying to meet the requirements set forth by his development team. Ion's ego knows NO bounds. The guy is a fucking ego maniacal idiot... the worst possible combination for a leader.

In essence, Ion is what we call an "idiot leader". They are the most dangerous type when they're also egotistical because they're too dumb and proud to see or admit they're wrong. Here's an article which describes Ion as a leader:
https://www.inc.com/sylvia-lafair/3-...d-leaders.html

Habit 1: Repitition of mistakes - "People don't like paragon traits?? Let's give them Concordance!!!"
Habit 2: Avoidance - Ion never interacts with the community other than scripted questions
Habit 3: Denial - "Random distribution of legendary items isn't a problem." (Over a year into the expansion)

Exceptionally stupid leader confirmed... where do I send his award?

[Orby]

The official forums have always been like this. It's been a vat of cancer ever since its inception. Sounds like Ornyx is just tired of it.

Can't blame him, a lot of that whining is also present on these forum... Very sad

It's sad because those with actual constructive criticism get blocked out with the non-constructive trolling.

[Kantoro]

Completely agree with Ornyx. WoW's vocal majority has grown into a cry baby pee pants community. Why would you want o engage with a group of ppl who will complain and bash your efforts no matter what you do? Look at the forums, both here and official, you will see nothing but people complaining about everything.

Everything.

[Wilfire]

People are frustrated with CMs because they have their priorities wrong or at the very least their actions make it appear that way. Instead of engaging with the community on their official forums, they post tweets whole day long. TWITTER IS NOT CONDUCTIVE TO CONSTRUCTIVE COMMUNICATION. The official forums are the intended channel for player feedback and yet there's very little CM input if any at all. PvP concerns go unaddressed for months and some subforums have zero blue posts for years altogether. People want to know if they are being heard. It doesn't take that much effort to, say, post something like "we're forwarding your feedback to the developers, expect a developer response soon" or "the developers think that this isn't an issue because a, b, and c". Instead they only pop up to lock "toxic" threads. THREADS TURN TOXIC BECAUSE WITHOUT CM INPUT IT'S LITERALLY JUST PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON IN WOW DEVELOPMENT SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER. Communication is a two way street. If you want constructive feedback, engage in constructive discussions with the community.

But I guess hanging out in Discord all day long and reading thoroughly moderated "raves" about how great their secret hunts are is easier than trying to tackle the real issues that WoW is having.

[Ahlae]

Yet they almost never respond to constructive feedback, and most of their posts are proven to either be incredibly defensive or aggressive; and exactly what they blame the community for. The rest of their posts are in 'silly' threads, or ones that break the forum guidelines like the GD Lounge threads.

Maybe if they enforced the forum rules, and actually responded to threads people wouldn't be so burned out, and tired of never getting a response on game breaking issues? It took months, and months, and HUNDREDS of pages for them to respond to the issue with personal loot in low level dungeons. They need to be faster in responding, and they need to do a better job in general.

When was the last time they responded in class threads, PvP threads and so forth? Ignore a portion of your game at all, and it becomes a problem and that portion feels like no one gives a shit anymore; and stop giving a shit themselves.

You see the times people get a blue post on an issue that's actually informative, and that they're pushing it along to get it solved? It goes great for a while, then when weeks and months roll by it festers and becomes a problem again. Because nothing happened. So it's not just the forum blues, it's the devs and other Blizz employees. Notice how the official forums have been fairly broken since they were updated? None of the feedback given was put into the website. Still can't search PvP ladderboards like you used to, and armory still doesn't show tons of old information.

Then there's search history being broken for months.. you get the point. It takes an absurdly long time for them to fix any issues they're being given feedback on, if at all; so people feel like all they can do is YELL because their voice seemingly wasn't heard or wasn't taken seriously the first time.

[mingarrubia]

In a recent Blizzard post, Ornyx insists that it is the "cynically negative" community at fault for the communication breakdown between Blizzard and the community:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=6#post-116
He fails to see "any reason why it would be in our best interest to actively engage with" this part of the community.

That was rather unprofessional to say the least.

[Edlarel]

There is probably no chance of saving this thread now, but I actually read the linked post and it is literally nothing of what the OP says. I’m going to report it as it is creating conflict where there isn’t any. Hopefully then it can at least be edited by a mod to point people to actually read and understand it properly. As for OP I will be blocking him as he clearly needs more attention than I’m willing to offer him.

[tyrlaan]

I have to say, cynically negative is the best way to describe MMO Champion and General Discussion forums.

Blizz listens to feedback plenty. They don't listen to whining and shittalking.

Appropriate response to the thread right here, found on page 1. Not sure why this on its 11th page.

There is probably no chance of saving this thread now, but I actually read the linked post and it is literally nothing of what the OP says. I’m going to report it as it is creating conflict where there isn’t any. Hopefully then it can at least be edited by a mod to point people to actually read and understand it properly. As for OP I will be blocking him as he clearly needs more attention than I’m willing to offer him.

Ooh, also this!

[NoiseTank13]

Appropriate response to the thread right here, found on page 1. Not sure why this on its 11th page.



Ooh, also this!

Yeah, I'm actually kind of amazed this topic was left open this long.

OP completely took something out of context and threw it on the floor to create drama.

[Caolela]

Hundreds of threads get made on the official forums every single day and the vast majority of them are from drooling idiots who can't take 2 seconds to calm down about whatever bullshit they feel like ranting about to think logically. Seeing hundreds 'over the years' is a single drop compared to the ocean of crap that infests the official forums and places like this every, single day.


1. Game developers are one of the more passionate group of workers you will ever find, to the point they often work under terrible conditions because they love what they do.
2. Blizzard is a for profit business, no shit they care mostly about making money. If this is just becoming realised, you might be from the shallow end of the gene pool.

"For profit" does not mean lying through your ass every time your mouth flies open, in order to deceive your customers to squeeze another nickle out of them to please shareholders every 3 months. As someone above said, Ion as lead dev has an ego that could become the 51st state and will stop at nothing to further Blizzard's "greed trumps all" agenda. It filters down to the rest of the employees like Ornyx.

[FelPlague]

That was rather unprofessional to say the least.

btw if you actuallty read the thread it is about someone who applied for the role of "MVP poster" but didnt get it, and legit makes the thread about how bad it is.. look at the post literally below ornyx's

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

"For profit" does not mean lying through your ass every time your mouth flies open, in order to deceive your customers to squeeze another nickle out of them to please shareholders every 3 months. As someone above said, Ion as lead dev has an ego that could become the 51st state and will stop at nothing to further Blizzard's "greed trumps all" agenda. It filters down to the rest of the employees like Ornyx.

If this isn't the type of person being discussed in the OP then I don't know what is. This is cynical negativity 100%.

[Caolela]

If this isn't the type of person being discussed in the OP then I don't know what is. This is cynical negativity 100%.

No it's not cynical, it's the truth. Because it may not sound pleasant for Blizz and their acolytes does not make it less valid.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No it's not cynical, it's the truth. Because it may not sound pleasant for Blizz and their acolytes does not make it less valid.

No, your post wasn't really valid. Its vitriol. And cynical.

cyn·i·cal
ˈsinək(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1.
believing that people are motivated by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.
"her cynical attitude"

[Caolela]

No, your post wasn't really valid. Its vitriol. And cynical.

And then there's the reality of what we've all seen Blizz do over the years. Some of you just have difficulty admitting it.

Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

[Armourboy]

Yet they almost never respond to constructive feedback, and most of their posts are proven to either be incredibly defensive or aggressive; and exactly what they blame the community for. The rest of their posts are in 'silly' threads, or ones that break the forum guidelines like the GD Lounge threads.

Maybe if they enforced the forum rules, and actually responded to threads people wouldn't be so burned out, and tired of never getting a response on game breaking issues? It took months, and months, and HUNDREDS of pages for them to respond to the issue with personal loot in low level dungeons. They need to be faster in responding, and they need to do a better job in general.

When was the last time they responded in class threads, PvP threads and so forth? Ignore a portion of your game at all, and it becomes a problem and that portion feels like no one gives a shit anymore; and stop giving a shit themselves.

You see the times people get a blue post on an issue that's actually informative, and that they're pushing it along to get it solved? It goes great for a while, then when weeks and months roll by it festers and becomes a problem again. Because nothing happened. So it's not just the forum blues, it's the devs and other Blizz employees. Notice how the official forums have been fairly broken since they were updated? None of the feedback given was put into the website. Still can't search PvP ladderboards like you used to, and armory still doesn't show tons of old information.

Then there's search history being broken for months.. you get the point. It takes an absurdly long time for them to fix any issues they're being given feedback on, if at all; so people feel like all they can do is YELL because their voice seemingly wasn't heard or wasn't taken seriously the first time.

Dead on right.

Here is the thing, Blizzard in no small part has helped to create the environment that the forums have become. In one breath they continually tell people that well constructed and thought out feedback is being read and listened to, but continually through alphas, betas, and PTR testing the exact opposite seems to be the case. I get the idea that you aren't going to respond to every single post created on the forums mid expansion, but during those phases that should be prime posting territory and discussion between Blizzard and it's players. Eventually it goes live with the exact same issues that good posters brought up months or years earlier with no response and the entire situation becomes toxic and any decent poster has long since left.

I've watched it with with just about every class out there over the course of this games life. I've seen and read countless threads of good feedback that seem to go unnoticed or unheeded until it's too late and people have started to abandon the class/spec and then Blizzard acts like it's the first time they knew it's a problem. I've seen issues raised with content, loot tables, and systems that Blizzard just flat out ignored and then get defensive about it when players leave that area of the game in droves.

Yes there are some asshats out there, and there will always be, but by choosing to respond how they have over the years they have actually enhanced that style of posting to where players seemingly default to that. They have also turned away from the forums towards social media, which is even worse in many cases, and also makes it feel to those that don't use it that you are even less active with the player base.

Sure posters should be more mature and less toxic, but I can say that after being on countless MMO boards over the last 20+ years that much of the fault for their state can be put directly on the companies themselves. When the type of posts you are looking for seem to be completely ignored for years on end those posters go away and leave you with mostly douchecanoes and old bitter posters.

Edit : The classic server forum they added is the perfect example. The make the announcement, create an area, but then give it zero direction and it turns into nothing but a giant cesspool of arguing over stupidity.

[Unholyground]

Apparently, Ornyx has grown used to yes men and Blizz boot-lickers being around him. Blizz shits on the game and a lot of people aren't happy with it (as evidenced by killing 70%+ of the PvP community as just one example). People express to CMs like Ornyx their dissatisfaction and annoyance, and he labels them "cynically negative" or some other ridiculous epithet instead of facing facts that the game has been steadily and slowly turned to RNG-shit-for-profit hamster wheel grinding.

WoW used to be a MMORPG. Ornyx and his ilk can't handle when someone tells them the emperor has no clothes. They want only happy! joy! talk or nothing at all.

It doesn't work that way.

PvP was never really enjoyable, more frustrating than anything, I can see why Blizzard kind of let it slide.

[Deleted]

Then he SHOULD QUIT HIS JOB.

No, the community should stop being shit.

How about a bit of both, please?

Most MMO forums (including this one) are 95% noise made by entitled, rude, whiny brats who endlessly complain about everything.
For this very reason community manager is a shitty job, and you can't expect to last for long unless you are willing to lose your sanity.

[Jaewalk]

One of the most successful companies in the world is apple.. they do not make design decisions based on customer feedback. WoW has been and still is the most successful and profitable MMORPG of all time and it is not due to listening to forum brats/trolls.

No, the customer is usually NOT right.

If this game is so bad because blizzard doesn’t listen to the community... can you just like go play something else?

Just look at any video games forums and it is pretty much the same cesspool.