WoW players that switched to FFXIV, I need your opinions

[Necromantic]

It isn't impossible, there are parsing/combat log programs, you just aren't allowed to talk about them or link them in chat to berate people. My FC used them a lot for our progression, but you never use them with pugs.

Same as me. They were a very useful tool for savage and extreme but you basically described exactly why Yoshida did not want them for pugs.

[Grable]

In my experience FFXIV was one of the friendlier communities amongst MMOs, GW2 being similar and WoW being one of the worst. Just looking at the group listings in dungeon group finder there can give you a very nasty taste of the WoW community, to the point where people who just want to play in a normal party atmosphere have to write "bring patience" or "chill group".

[Super Kami Dende]

Same as me. They were a very useful tool for savage and extreme but you basically described exactly why Yoshida did not want them for pugs.

Well of course, because that's exactly why I said it and why I found it pleasant that people knew better then to test their luck doing it after people started getting banned.

[Wrecktangle]

So are you actually going to give one of your examples of this "awful community" or not?

Vague statements help nothing.

I actually consider FF14's community to be one of the worst to play with TBH. I've found that I value certain things differently in multiplayer games than others do. It's hard to put into words, but the premise is that it's TOO nice. It's almost fake nice. Like awkward even.

It's strange that we play in a community where people are afraid to help a player struggling for fear of reports/backlash, or a crime to expect personal responsibility or equal effort. However, there's more to it than that. I also think a lot of it is bred from Developer choices like forced interaction between playertypes, etc.

Here is a personal example:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ht-before-boss.

This is from the OF - if you can't access let me know and I'll just copy/paste it. The premise was that we had a pug tank who literally only used Shield Lob the entire dungeon. I offered constructive criticism as did the other 2 random pugs, and he ignored it. Eventually people became less nice about it and we had agreed to kick him right at the gate before final boss.

He proceeded to make a post on the OF whining about people being toxic and kicking him before final boss. THANKFULLY a large portion of the community took my side, but there were still a lot of people who felt we were in the wrong in kicking, and that we should have just accepted the differences and let him complete (which you know is not something I stand for).

The community had no problem dealing with this guy for DOZENS of dungeons runs. They should have IMO.

I have other examples, (but no proof of them): People reported my post and got me banned on OF for 10 days because it said ACT in it. What's crazy is that it wasn't even a bad post. Someone was mentioning how ACT is bad (they used ACT in their post btw) because it doesn't track context and capture things like resses. They cited an example of like Hashmal where they had 60+ resses and didn't get credit for it. I responding by explaining exactly where it shows and tracks that data and that it is something I would have seen had I been in that run.

I couldn't believe how petty people are in this community.

I remember being kicked for asking someone to use the LB before a boss was at 1%. I said "try and LB a little earlier so we get max value out of it instead of losing some to overkill". I didn't go into detail about how it'd have been better used on trash as an AOE, etc.

He responds by telling me to "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DON'T EVER TELL ME HOW TO PLAY AGAIN". Literally in all caps. About 2 minutes later I'm removed from the dungeon. I didn't say another word.

I definitely have more, and I think I've even posted them here before.

The thing I was trying to convey is that I think this community is awful because of how creepily nice it tries to be. It feels forced and awkward and often very unnatural.

[Deleted]

lolwut? FFXIV for me was the first MMO I've played were very few people even mentioned my playstyle. The fact it doesn't have "allowed" DPS meters also means anyone that hassles you over DPS/how you play you can straight up report and they will be banned.

It's weird how we have the complete opposite experience in the same game.

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Once again, literally never saw this and I was in a massive guild doing OSV4. Maybe it was just your guild? or maybe I never experienced it because I was an actual good player. But then again I never even saw bad players get threatened or yelled at.

FFXIV is literally the friendliest online game I've ever played.

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Wtf. I feel like it is just you guys being horrible people then getting shitty when people tell you to get lost.

Nice, showcasing the exact attitude these guys refer to right here.

FFXIV is a decent enough game that is held back by a rigid story, paid storyskips for old content, poor delivery of said story (textboxes and horrible voice actors). I understand that FFXIV is a japanese game and that japanese devs might have a different view on "good" voice acting, but when tiny little funcom with their wonky ass MMOs can have AAA voice acting, so should FFXIV.

But apart from that, the content is good for what it is, the fights quickly become more of the same however and rarely do classes get unique opportunities to shine. The Savage Raids pale in comparison to even the shittiest mythic fights in wow. The mechanics largerly come down to "dodge shit" or "dps that add/orb/thing". I enjoy the multiple class system, and the housing is a nice touch.

But the community... Spend some time looking at guild recruitment and just be amazed by how often a guild/FC needs to add "No Drama", "Drama Free Environment" etc... And that is just the social aspect going on.

For dungeons and raids, the elitists arent actually that elite. They are often sub-par players and have extremely rigid views on how FFXIV is "different" to every other MMO. I came into FFXIV on a white mage and people got furious at my playstyle for the first 2-3 pulls, then they loved it. Why? Because their hp dropped low, they never died, but it was low. But I had already done those instances I knew the dmg to expect and I pulled dps in between. I regularly out-dpsed dps players in Heavensward, did I ever rat them out ? No. Because the content got done.

I honestly prefer wows silent dungeon runs with the occasional rage-kid, to the mess that is extreme roulettes in FFXIV if you DARE to differ in any way from the norm.

Edit: And as the guy above me mentions, the creepy friendliness is so offputting. Because people rarely have the energy to keep it up and then they just become annoyed eventually. Instead of just acting like themselves from the beginning.

It's a really creepy and offputting community and the shit that goes down in some city areas makes Moonguard look tame.

FFXIV is a good game but it's stuck in 2005, it needs to shorten its leveling story, not the time spent leveling, the mandatory story needs to match the pace that youo level at.

[Eleccybubb]

@Wrecktangle

Too lazy to snip so ez mode response.

You were in the right there. He was spamming one ability as a tank and not playing anywhere close to optimal. That kind of defensive attitude exists in every MMO. Even games without the trinity like GW2. If I could be bothered to use the OF I'd be on there defending you too. <3

I always try and help players. Be it telling a healer to politely off dps when there is nothing to heal or a RDM with not hardcasting Verthunder/Veraero as Dualcast makes it instant. I'd say I'm fairly polite but if people give me the shitty attitude when I help them then I'll either stop helping them or tell them there is no need to be rude when someone is going out of their way to help you.

However what I'm referring to is the vague comments made by people here. It doesn't help if we don't know why people are "awful" and honestly it sounds like a case of people who were told to do something that is considered the norm, didn't comply and felt they were being bullied if I'm honest.

Your post on the forums has all the information. So it's easy to paint a clear picture. People here don't paint a clear picture and use vague statements like "threatened into playing a different way" which helps in no way whatsoever.

[Florena]

Most of my roulettes or even normal dungeon runs in FF XIV are silent. Occasionally I'll get a group that wants to joke around or chat about something but generally unless someone's new and asking how something works or it's new content, I rarely see much in party chat for dungeons/normal mode trials etc.

Anecdotes are anecdotes but I generally have issues more often in WoW, like tanks that get mad when a dps accidentally pulls something and just sitting around until the dps they're mad at gets kicked and it's hard to kick them because they queued with a buddy etc.

I tend to find in FF XIV there's usually someone helpful around, whether it's a free res because I died in Eureka trying to sneak to a quest location or to give some advice etc. Not that FF XIV is free of bad eggs mind you. For example being told to 'maybe watch a speed run video' of a dungeon by a dps before they quit the group in a roulette dungeon. (For the record I'm more than happy to do big or chain pulls in dungeons but only if the healer gives the thumbs up for it first.)

I find in both games though the majority of people are agreeable and polite, with only the occasional bad egg standing out as rude or causing issues.

[Necromantic]

For dungeons and raids, the elitists arent actually that elite. They are often sub-par players and have extremely rigid views on how FFXIV is "different" to every other MMO. I came into FFXIV on a white mage and people got furious at my playstyle for the first 2-3 pulls, then they loved it. Why? Because their hp dropped low, they never died, but it was low. But I had already done those instances I knew the dmg to expect and I pulled dps in between. I regularly out-dpsed dps players in Heavensward, did I ever rat them out ? No. Because the content got done.

I honestly prefer wows silent dungeon runs with the occasional rage-kid, to the mess that is extreme roulettes in FFXIV if you DARE to differ in any way from the norm.

You're absolutely right about the elitists. It was usually a guy who completed his glowing weapon and ran PUG groups to condescend people. I've seen that several times. Never seen that in WoW.

And this game is definitely not friendly to those who dare to be different. Even reading the asinine replies in this thread when someone mentioned being different. The silent dungeons in WoW are not only more forgiving but more peaceful. In 14 years, I've seen a few random rage people. In 5 years of this game, I've seen more than I can count on both hands and feet.

[Eleccybubb]

-snip-

There is a difference between "being different" and purposely playing your job in a way that is a detriment though.

Same goes for WoW and playing your class in a way that's a detriment to the other people.

If I had a tank spamming Shield Lob and nothing else in a dungeon as @Wrecktangle said. I'd ask him kindly to use his threat generating combo among other things. And he would be booted if he pulled the "my sub" crap on me.

There is no excuse for playing sub optimally and "my sub" when you are on other peoples time as well doesn't cut it.

And by sub optimally I don't mean using one of the SKS SAM builds. They all work fine with their own differences. I'm referring to a Black Mage not using Enochian or a Red Mage not using their Melee Combo in which 2 of their strongest spells are behind.

People who purposely don't use their best spells are factually a detriment to the group. It's not harsh. It's a fact. Or tanks who don't use their threat generating abilities so even with emnity reduction the DPS are getting threat or a healer in high end content not off dpsing.

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If one person asked you to watch a speedrun video then ignore them mate. If they wanted a speedrun then they should have gone as a premade. Simple.

They are as bad as those Meta tryhards who ask for Meta then wipe endlessly and blame it on the job rather than themselves.

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[Soikona]

If FFXIV did not have a great community it would have failed years ago.


The content never changes, we are getting close to the third expansion and it's exact the same game and content roll outs.

That is horseshit and you know it. A great community is purely subjective, and look at LoL, CS:GO, Rainbow 6, WoW, all toxic communities and still going strong!

[Florena]

There is a difference between "being different" and purposely playing your job in a way that is a detriment though.

Same goes for WoW and playing your class in a way that's a detriment to the other people.

If I had a tank spamming Shield Lob and nothing else in a dungeon as @Wrecktangle said. I'd ask him kindly to use his threat generating combo among other things. And he would be booted if he pulled the "my sub" crap on me.

There is no excuse for playing sub optimally and "my sub" when you are on other peoples time as well doesn't cut it.

And by sub optimally I don't mean using one of the SKS SAM builds. They all work fine with their own differences. I'm referring to a Black Mage not using Enochian or a Red Mage not using their Melee Combo in which 2 of their strongest spells are behind.

People who purposely don't use their best spells are factually a detriment to the group. It's not harsh. It's a fact. Or tanks who don't use their threat generating abilities so even with emnity reduction the DPS are getting threat or a healer in high end content not off dpsing.

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If one person asked you to watch a speedrun video then ignore them mate. If they wanted a speedrun then they should have gone as a premade. Simple.

They are as bad as those Meta tryhards who ask for Meta then wipe endlessly and blame it on the job rather than themselves.

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Oh I did, the healer even told me to ignore them. Was just trying to think of an example of an 'issue' with someone in a random dungeon to balance the wow example I gave, but it's pretty rare that I have problems in duty finder.

[Necromantic]

That is horseshit and you know it. A great community is purely subjective, and look at LoL, CS:GO, Rainbow 6, WoW, all toxic communities and still going strong!

This x10. Some people keep those communities going because they thrive off the drama.

[Rogalicus]

And this game is definitely not friendly to those who dare to be different.

Because there is pretty much no way to play differently.

[Jademist]

I play both. When I am tired of WoW, I play FFXIV. When I get tired of FFXIV, I play Wow.

[Necromantic]

Because there is pretty much no way to play differently.

Of course there is. People play certain jobs differently than others do. Some ways may not be as common as others. I'm not talking about the hyperbolic "ice black mage" or "melee-only red mage".

[Eleccybubb]

Because there is pretty much no way to play differently.

This. I mean feel free to play Spell Speed RDM for example. Just don't complain when people tell you there are better stats for it or high end statics don't take you for stacking what is imo a worthless stat for RDM.

[Katchii]

You're absolutely right about the elitists. It was usually a guy who completed his glowing weapon and ran PUG groups to condescend people. I've seen that several times. Never seen that in WoW.

And this game is definitely not friendly to those who dare to be different. Even reading the asinine replies in this thread when someone mentioned being different. The silent dungeons in WoW are not only more forgiving but more peaceful. In 14 years, I've seen a few random rage people. In 5 years of this game, I've seen more than I can count on both hands and feet.

As @Eleccybubb already mentioned, there's playing differently and playing just plain wrong to the point where you're holding everyone else back. That said, the classes are pretty rigidly designed to function a specific way so there's very little room for "different" while still being functional and viable. Being an ice mage isn't viable, being a melee cleric as a WHM isn't viable, being a DPS Paladin/Dark Knight/Warrior isn't your role (maximize your DPS for sure, but your main job is to be a tank...if you're not going to tank and just want to DPS, don't be a fucking tank), doing nothing but healing as a healer in a dungeon where you only need to use a HoT or shield to keep people alive is incredibly lazy and wasteful when you can be throwing some additional damage out to speed things up or smooth things out, not using your pet as a Summoner isn't viable and doesn't even allow you to use your full range of abilities, and plenty of other examples (and I've seen all of the ones I'm describing).

Don't be "different" at the expense of everyone else's time and effort. While I hate the "you don't pay my sub" argument I do understand that people are just trying to enjoy themselves while playing a game. However, in group content, your sub cost is less than the sub cost of everyone else in your group, whether that's 3, 7 or 23 other people. If you want to be quirky and different on your own time, or with a group of understanding and accepting friends who will let you be that way, go for it. but don't do it in content where everyone expects everyone else to pull their own weight.

[dope_danny]

In my experience FFXIV was one of the friendlier communities amongst MMOs, GW2 being similar and WoW being one of the worst. Just looking at the group listings in dungeon group finder there can give you a very nasty taste of the WoW community, to the point where people who just want to play in a normal party atmosphere have to write "bring patience" or "chill group".

The biggest issue with WoW's is hands down "WIPED ONCE THATS IT, EVERYONE FUCKING LEAVE THIS IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE". Sticking the story finale behind a mythic only dungeon must have really stuck in the craw of 1 and dones.

[Projectmars]

I dunno if it's me having not been paying too much attention, not doing the relevant content, or luck, but I can't think of any times where I've felt the FF14 community is toxic... certainly not to the extent the WoW one feels sometimes. I've had a tank that kept wiping the group by ignoring mechanics on Garuda Extreme multiple times (and pulling before we could kick) but nothing bad.

[Necromantic]

As @Eleccybubb already mentioned, there's playing differently and playing just plain wrong to the point where you're holding everyone else back. That said, the classes are pretty rigidly designed to function a specific way so there's very little room for "different" while still being functional and viable. Being an ice mage isn't viable, being a melee cleric as a WHM isn't viable, being a DPS Paladin/Dark Knight/Warrior isn't your role (maximize your DPS for sure, but your main job is to be a tank...if you're not going to tank and just want to DPS, don't be a fucking tank), doing nothing but healing as a healer in a dungeon where you only need to use a HoT or shield to keep people alive is incredibly lazy and wasteful when you can be throwing some additional damage out to speed things up or smooth things out, not using your pet as a Summoner isn't viable and doesn't even allow you to use your full range of abilities, and plenty of other examples (and I've seen all of the ones I'm describing).

Don't be "different" at the expense of everyone else's time and effort. While I hate the "you don't pay my sub" argument I do understand that people are just trying to enjoy themselves while playing a game. However, in group content, your sub cost is less than the sub cost of everyone else in your group, whether that's 3, 7 or 23 other people. If you want to be quirky and different on your own time, or with a group of understanding and accepting friends who will let you be that way, go for it. but don't do it in content where everyone expects everyone else to pull their own weight.

Nobody said anything about that. That was an assumption. People do not all play jobs the exact same way. I already said that I'm not talking about hyperbolic examples like you mentioned. I see people all the time playing the jobs that I've played and may not use the same rotation, use the cooldowns exactly when I do. There are degrees of skill in this game.

People are welcome to be different wherever they want. I too hear the whole "I pay my sub" comment and I hate to admit, but it's still right. If the group doesn't like it, there is a kick option for a reason. The game cannot force your static groups to play with someone you feel is not "worth your sub time." As far as pulling their own weight, that's waaaaay toos subjective. I've seen many people who were trying very hard and told they're not playing to some random guy's personal standards. We can debate what is or isn't acceptable all day long but it's strictly opinion.