[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Mordin Solus]

Meh, I don't really see why being incompetent is a big deal in this game. Nearly all of it except savage and the hard trials can be done with sub optimal players. And some people get flustered during mechanics. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not sure where the frustration really comes from? Help me understand.

to me is more people asking if people need tacts and some1 starts accusing you of being cocky or some shit. i would like some more critical thinking from most players although, because there's just so much standing in fire and then wondering why that person is dying that you can take.

[StrawberryZebra]

considering last time i offered advice and tacts for o10 i got berrated and said that i just wasted 5 mins (this after a wipe and me asking if i should tell tacts and that person calling me arrogant and that i should leave) yeah it seems more common at least in alphascape

I have this kind of thing happen once or twice a week too. I mean, I know there's at least one first timer in my group because I got the pop-up notification. That's fine, I really don't care if it's your first kill or your thousandth. But I do want to make sure that it is a kill. Ensuring the new guys have at least a basic outline of how a boss fight or a dungeon goes is common sense. It takes a couple of minutes explaining, to save 15 minutes or more wiping, it's a net positive for the group as a whole.

Yet at times people feel the need to attack me for it. I really just don't get it.

Meh, I don't really see why being incompetent is a big deal in this game. Nearly all of it except savage and the hard trials can be done with sub optimal players. And some people get flustered during mechanics. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not sure where the frustration really comes from? Help me understand.

Honestly, I don't mind if players are bad, as long as they're putting the effort in. Bad players on the whole don't try to intentionally make playing the game worse for other people. There are many reasons why players fit into the "bad" catagory, but I find that most don't remain there indefinately.

The kind that are lazy and lash out at others who have the nerve to bother slotting materia into their gear, or who'll use their cooldowns to speed up trash and so on are the kind that really get under my skin. They actively make the community worse by trying to ostracise anyone they deem to be "elitist". They seem to have a bizzare notion that those "elite" players try to exclude the rest of the player base from content, which in my experience, couldn't be further from the truth.

[Advent]

I mean, I put materia into my gear. It's almost definitely not good materia because idk what IS the best and I don't really care to find out. As far as I know, my kind sticks to the easy queue stuff, like non-savage content and roulettes where it kind of gets on our nerves to be nitpicked about our performance. We're not there for that and we don't want to be bothered with it.

[Granyala]

Meh, I don't really see why being incompetent is a big deal in this game. Nearly all of it except savage and the hard trials can be done with sub optimal players. And some people get flustered during mechanics. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not sure where the frustration really comes from? Help me understand.

If you fail the content that "can be done with sub optimal players" repeatedly because players are not just "suboptimal" but downright horrible.

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I mean, I put materia into my gear. It's almost definitely not good materia because idk what IS the best and I don't really care to find out.

Don't bother. Secondary stats are too weak to really matter.
As long as you don't gem sth. completely inappropriate like tenacity as a healer, or skill speed as a caster you will be fine.

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They seem to have a bizzare notion that those "elite" players try to exclude the rest of the player base from content, which in my experience, couldn't be further from the truth.

Typically it's the "elitists" that drag these incompetent people through the content by their feet.

[lawow74]

Don't bother. Secondary stats are too weak to really matter.
As long as you don't gem sth. completely inappropriate like tenacity as a healer, or skill speed as a caster you will be fine.

That depends what you're playing. I can assure you, as BRD, getting more Crit REALLY improves how the job plays. But it's not hard to find out what you should prioritize. Just depends on how easy the Materia are for you to get. Spend some time doing Hunts or Eureka and you'll get them thrown at you left and right, either directly or via Cracked Clusters.

[dope_danny]

Meh, I don't really see why being incompetent is a big deal in this game. Nearly all of it except savage and the hard trials can be done with sub optimal players. And some people get flustered during mechanics. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not sure where the frustration really comes from? Help me understand.

Because its a multiplayer team based game in almost all endgame content and 'fuck you i make my own fun' is a spiteful, assholeish view to take when you are an active detriment to the enjoyment of a group to facilitate your own. The player doing the least and making the most mistakes slows the whole group down and if someone offers helpful advice and the detriment to the group starts to freak out then thats a personal problem with their personality. The rest of the ground doesnt have to and shouldnt have to deal with that kind of player.

[StrawberryZebra]

Don't bother. Secondary stats are too weak to really matter.
As long as you don't gem sth. completely inappropriate like tenacity as a healer, or skill speed as a caster you will be fine.

The way I see it, Materia is free stats in all sense of the term. I don't care that the stats aren't great, I must have them regardless.

[lawow74]

Saw this posted on Reddit and got a smile from it. Enjoy.

What I learned (sometimes) skipping cutscenes and leveling all jobs to 70

[Granyala]

The way I see it, Materia is free stats in all sense of the term. I don't care that the stats aren't great, I must have them regardless.

I was referring to the crocs worry about picking a suboptimal stat. It speaks for itself that you do not leave tasty slots empty.

[Florena]

Because its a multiplayer team based game in almost all endgame content and 'fuck you i make my own fun' is a spiteful, assholeish view to take when you are an active detriment to the enjoyment of a group to facilitate your own. The player doing the least and making the most mistakes slows the whole group down and if someone offers helpful advice and the detriment to the group starts to freak out then thats a personal problem with their personality. The rest of the ground doesnt have to and shouldnt have to deal with that kind of player.

Yep. Now, nobody demands perfection in casual content but it is fair to expect some level of competency when you group with others. An honest effort.

[Wrecktangle]

Ugh - another 10 day ban from the OF. I "debatably" deserved this one because I linked a players logs, but it needed to be done.

Basically the player was making a claim about how to tank (grossly inaccurate and sub-optimal). I refuted it, and he proceeded to stick to his guns that he's right because he does it with friends all the time and never has any issues.

So I look his logs up, and yeah sure, I mention that I could clear that content with no issue (dungeons/normal mode) just sitting there spamming rage of halone over and over again. Then I basically say oh wait you already did it. (His logs indicated single digits performance, not using Holy Spirit at all, barely Requiescat), and sat in shield oath just spamming rage of halone.)

People like this get empowered thinking that they can give performance related advice to players and this is why we need parsers. Worth the ban.

Meh, I don't really see why being incompetent is a big deal in this game. Nearly all of it except savage and the hard trials can be done with sub optimal players. And some people get flustered during mechanics. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not sure where the frustration really comes from? Help me understand.

Incompetent probably isn't a good word to use. Incompetent to me implies consistent failure of a bare minimum. I don't think there's much salvation for that.

However, if we're to use "bad" instead. I don't mind if a player is bad. If a player can own his mistakes and fix it. That's fine. If a player asks for help because he's failing that's fine. If a player dies to every mechanic that's fine too because he's learning.

It's things like when people deliberately put no effort in (low activity/cpm) or watch netflix instead of DPSing, etc.

It wouldn't be such a meme if it wasn't staggeringly rampant. The problem is if you're not looking for it, or you don't have ACT installed it's a pain to see.

[Faroth]

So unless you have a third party program to tell you that you should be miserable, you won't be as miserable?

[Eleccybubb]

I mean you are playing on other people's time so some competency of the job you are playing is expected.

I mean for example I'd never expect a healer to DPS but not doing so isn't exactly beneficial. Scholar has amazing AoE for trash packs and Holy itself is mitigation in a way.

However if you are spamming Blizzard as a BLM or deliberately playing like shit then yes I'll boot you. You are playing on mine and at least 2 other peoples time. I mean if you are willing to accept help first and try to improve I'll happily withhold a kick.

However pull shit like "you don't pay my sub" or "I'm playing fine" when you are not using core abilities of your job then you are beyond help.

[Advent]

So unless you have a third party program to tell you that you should be miserable, you won't be as miserable?

That's actually pretty enlightening. I certainly wasn't frustrated before I installed ACT. In fact, the term "Ignorance is bliss" feels like it applies here.

[Faroth]

That's actually pretty enlightening. I certainly wasn't frustrated before I installed ACT. In fact, the term "Ignorance is bliss" feels like it applies here.

I ran an EX recently where the WHM was healing mostly and not using Holy despite the tank making huge pulls. Nobody said anything about it, though I wondered why the WHM wasn't using it. Didn't stop long enough to take a look and see if they were in low gear, guess if they were newer to the job or undergeared, etc. They started using Holy in the final stretch, though.

Did the run take longer? Probably, but I didn't really notice. It never felt like it dragged on.

But if I had mathematical "evidence" telling me this was a bad run, it's more likely you're going to be more frustrated. It's why I don't see the benefit to using ACT outside of Savage raids.

[StrawberryZebra]

So unless you have a third party program to tell you that you should be miserable, you won't be as miserable?

I consider it more of a problem identifying tool than a means to make myself miserable. It's hard to fix your groups problems if you don't know what they are to begin with.

Honestly, if you're playing AST it should be a baseline UI feature. In 4 man content especially, it's often better to use a beefed up Arrow or Balance on your groups top DPS than the AoE one simply because they're doing that much more damage than the rest of the group combined. If you're playing a healer in general, you really need to know if it's better to res that dead BRD or the DRG. Knowing who the best performers are is important information when you're responsible for keeping them alive.

The reason you see a lot of completely clueless people acting as if they're the best players in the world is mainly because there's nothing to dispel that illusion for them. Like our good friend Captain Shield Lob - There's no feedback built into the system for people like him. He sees himself getting dungeons and raids done without dying and considers himself skilled. There's nothing to tell him that he's wrong. I'm not saying that to be cruel, only that it's a cycle of positive reinforcement, he succeds and repeats the steps that got him there until they no longer work, only there's not yet been a point where they don't work. Without any way to compare himself to other people, he'd be doomed to a cycle of underperforming that he'd be unable to break alone.

[Faroth]

In 4 man runs, I'm really not bothered by shaving that extra 4.28 minutes off the run. Seriously, I don't give the tiniest crap imaginable that people min/max their per second efficiency in there.

I never gave a rat's ass in 5 mans in WoW either.

I'm a near exclusive Duty Finder player. I've said it before, I can count on one hand the number of notably bad experiences caused by players being clueless over the last 5 years. The people who seem to have massively incompetent players every other day? They tend to be the ones staring at parsers. I stand by my view that most people make themselves more miserable than necessary with these "useful tools." It's a bit of a longshot that you're going to fix a group's problem long term when they're going to drop at the end and you'll likely not see them again for long, if ever. Moreso if you use the block tool that's been given to you so you don't have to be grouped with bad players.

It's quite clear it's a very particular subset of players who feel it's excessively necessary that everyone have parsers in their face in every form of content. I vehemently and completely disagree with that stance.

Captain Shield Lob is the utmost extreme example possible. Based on what's been shown, I'm still not convinced he's not a highly committed troll.

[Graeham]

Captain Shield Lob is the utmost extreme example possible. Based on what's been shown, I'm still not convinced he's not a highly committed troll.

This.

The official forum is very weird at times. Outright trolling results in a ban - so people resort to subtle trolling instead. I've encountered people doing it more than once. They'll deliberately be dense and refuse to concede that something they are doing or saying is wrong or subject to personal opinions. You try to explain things to them but they still claim that they don't get it - and so those explaining get frustrated and risk saying something that they regret. It happens a lot over on the lore forum.

[Florena]

I don't generally pay that much attention to what people do. I did have an Arboretum Hard mode though where the ninja was getting on my nerves by not using any aoe. Not a single doton the whole run even though I was doing big pulls at the healer's request. I don't expect or demand perfect, especially in casual content, but it does irk me when people don't even seem to be trying or have a basic understanding of their job at level 70. What really made me mad though was when the ninja pulled the boss while I was typing out in party chat 'who wants to handle the mud pie?' Because I find if my groups don't designate someone, it gets ping ponged around by multiple people and explodes and the healer has to clean up after us.

If I were doing extreme/savage content I would expect people be good at their class, but all I want in dutyfinder is an honest effort and basic competency, at least by the time you're level 70.

[Granyala]

That's actually pretty enlightening. I certainly wasn't frustrated before I installed ACT. In fact, the term "Ignorance is bliss" feels like it applies here.

If you have even a little experience running the content with a competent group, you don't need ACT to feel that players are crappy.
Esp as a healer when I get barely any DPS out because the tank is a friggin damage sponge or the DPS constantly stand in the fire.

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Ugh - another 10 day ban from the OF. I "debatably" deserved this one because I linked a players logs, but it needed to be done.

People like this get empowered thinking that they can give performance related advice to players and this is why we need parsers. Worth the ban.

It is absolutely pathetic that you got banned for that.
Toxic trolling by incompetent players is encouraged and accepted but oh boy don't dare to use mathematical evidence to tell them that they are wrong.

Oh well, it's not as if people behave much differently IRL these days.

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In 4 man runs, I'm really not bothered by shaving that extra 4.28 minutes off the run. Seriously, I don't give the tiniest crap imaginable that people min/max their per second efficiency in there.

To be fair: 95% of the random 4man runs are fine. Far from optimal but content is forgiving enough to see the party through.