Well here we go again, Blizzard are stretching that taffy...

[oplawlz]

Those were not "acceptable loot systems" for everyone, and are not a solution to the BFA mess. Its easy to cry and moan, why not think up a solution and how it may apply to the current state instead?

The "current state" is the problem that needs to be solved. Your suggestion of not changing it is like telling someone in a leaky boat to fix it without patching any holes - both illogical and unreasonable.

[SirCowdog]

https://youtu.be/1vaaXFelkOE

Oof... yeah, but it took him EIGHT HOURS to do it.

You can't hold that up as some kind of justification for....anything.

[predasmoke3]

Because not giving an alternative shows the poster to be nothing more than a whiny child than actually wanting to help the game. Also childish is your roundabout way of calling someone who disagrees with you a fanboy.

How is it my job as a paying customer to come up with an alternative? i thought my job was to provide feedback and enjoy the product i paid for. Stating that product is grossly below standards is not whining. Sorry, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you get to debase the comment and decide its invalid because you think the OP is just whining. I know that's probably the easiest way for you to deal with your kids when they ask you why they live in a shithole, you just ask them what their plan is? lmfao. It's not their job to provide solutions, its yours. its not my job as a customer to provide solutions, it's blizzard's.

As if not having an alternative is proper cause to deny someone the right to bring problems into discussion. You sound like you wear a lot of camo.

[unlockedz]

on the previous two expansions the gear was locked into raids(tier sets), sure legendaries dropped randomly on legion but that's it. every fucking thing was locked in raid/m+, you get rewarded for the content you do. you want ilvl? you do raids or now m+. when has it not been like this?
why would you get raid/pvp ilvl gear from doing wq or petbattles?
i don't understand what you want.
from what i know they said current gear won't be valid for the next patch, why is that a surprise? when has it even been fucking different? every new raid turns previous raid gear into shit.
i don't enjoy what they're doing that much either but anything is a step forward from legendaries.
compare legendaries to azerite armor.
you needed 2 pieces out of 12 to get everything from your class. it maybe dropped 1 a week or 2 if you PLAYED THE SHIT out of the game.
now we have this crap where you can get it by any difficulty of raiding (pvp and m+ are good opts too) and even if it's not your best (even i don't have any bis for m+ and i've been doing 10+ weekly) traits it's still something, compare that to legion where you got shit.

it feels like you're 15yo crying about not being able to be fully geared in 3 weeks.
the cost sucks, it makes me think the next raid will last for months (as in much more than uldir) which is the real issues here, not some azerite shit trait i can get from raiding.

[Asrialol]

Its Azeshite gear, it had it chance at launch to prove its worth, it failed that, this bandaid is their second attempt to get it right, its not looking worthwhile either as its still the same shite just gussied up a little to make it look shiny.

but you go for it, have fun.

- - - Updated - - -



I dont, I unsubbed rather than pay for something I haven't touched in weeks. I do however love to tussle with the morally grey in here who love white knighting Blizzard.

This post is the perfect example of how peoplei on the internet generally behave. "I don't like something, my opinion is correct, anyone who thinks different are wrong". Pretty sad.

"Azeshite", clever. How old are you?

[Appelgren]

What you fail to realize is Blizzard is constantly changing Azerite traits and have been every few weeks since BFA released. How would you feel if you spent 2 months gathering up the currency to get your BiS then the very next week Blizzard put out hotfixes that nerfed your BiS traits?

That would mean that those traits were overpowered and that should mean a calculated risk going for those traits.
Sort of like people rerolling fotm-classes for arena and then start crying when they get nerfed to the ground.

[Ragedaug]

I really don't like posting my opinions because with this forum the white knights and devil's advocates come out of the woodwork like the maggots they are to chew up any negative feedback for blizz.

What are maggots doing in the wood work?

Also, as maggots tend to eat and clean up dead and decayed flesh, it sounds like you are saying that your negative feedback is carrion?

[Zyky]

That would mean that those traits were overpowered and that should mean a calculated risk going for those traits.
Sort of like people rerolling fotm-classes for arena and then start crying when they get nerfed to the ground.

You're wrong. A great example is how they're nerfing both the Sunfire and Moonfire traits on Tuesday with the patch for Boomkins, they weren't even used in M+ keys, they weren't even remotely in a good state(they weren't even used in PvP before you push that out). Here's the data on hectic cleave damage for azerite traits, what you're looking for specifically is High Noon and Power of the Moon: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#d...tacking&tier=3

Blizzard has zero clue what they're doing when they're nerfing traits and I shouldn't have to worry that I spent 2 months gathering a currency for them to gut it later on because they have no idea what they're doing.

[Fumu]

this is something i can agree (and i do, bc i am also not a friend of the diablo style rng shit).

in my mind there is still the argument that also the rare drop chances in classic did a make or break, when you looked at the other rogue in your raid guild doing 10% more dps because the 1.4% dropchance item dropped for him, while you got it 7 months later. in such stuff there isnt that much of a difference to today.

but that said, your statement is at least (in comparisson to a lot of others here) logical, straight and argumented instead stupid ranting out of the ass. and i agree.

for me personally i dont like many things of the new game design. foremost the much investment blizz wants from you into one character. since i loved to play alts on high gear niveau in older xpacs, this became nearly impossible since Legion. on the other hand i understand that 90% of ppl have one main and thats it. and blizz want a carrotte on a stick for them as long as possible.

look, when you played TBC or WotlK you did your weekly raid and stuff on your main. that was it. if you wanted to play more, you had to do pvp or go alt playing. pvp and alts was the „filler stuff“ back in these days. if you dont like or do that, today you unsub, and come „maybe“ back later. so blizz changed the filler stuff. from alts and pvp to side progressions and rng rng rng for your main.

this leads ofc to a diablo game. its all an endless grind. there are ppl that like this, and ppl that dont like this. but in the end blizz will do, what makes them more money. and they have the data. we not. all we have is a mmoc minority and a official forum minority, that represents around 10% of the player base.

blizz released 4 years ago some numbers how much of their playerbase never ever stepped one foot into their forums. that was a horrible high number. what i wanna say is: ppl here think their mmoc/forum mindset, the world from their point of view in their head, is the reality. it is not. we have no clue how good or not wow as it is now sells for blizz. and they will ALWAYS do what makes them money. not what that 10% above like or dont like.

sad but true.

Thank you! I try to post constructively

The thing is that back in Vanilla, at least IMO, the overall community was less elitist. We didn’t know the guts of the game inside and out yet, and even theory crafting was primitive compared to now (though what they accomplished, given the tools and info at the time, was incredible).

The rogue who did 10% more dps back then may have been a server legend. The rogue who has the item that does 10% more dps now is a REQUIREMENT for many pugs, and strongly pushed for in progression raids. This means while back in the day the unlucky rogue would most likely still have a raid spot but smaller Recount numbers, these days the poor bastard may never see the inside of a higher difficulty instance. That’s the big difference between legendaries and legiondaries; the latter was almost a requirement, which put way more pressure on the average Joe to farm it while diluting the original mystique of legendaries at the same time. I think all of the RNG and bloated, unpredictable ilvls are still causing the same problem, even without the orange text.

As for filling the time back in the day - it may just be me but I never ran out of stuff to do. There were mounts and titles to farm, there was gold to make, and (eventually) transmogs to play dress-up with. Rep grinding was also still there, just not forced, and usually had a bunch of fun cosmetic rewards instead of unlocking a game mode that we already unlocked 11 years ago. *cough flying*

Unfortunately I think Blizzard’s missteps are going to cost them money and send WoW into a spiral. It’s not just the 1% passionate enough to post on forums that were affected by BFA - my 70 year old dad who has been casualling around leveling alts for fun since release quit over the scaling screwups. My bf quit because of the combo of difficult terrain and insane mob density on top of being grounded, the first two issues we didn’t really have to worry about in Vanilla. To be fair those are personal anecdotes and only Blizzard themselves have the data, but it’s a trend I’ve seen among friends.

[Nerovar]

Does anyone know a good MoP private server?

[Appelgren]

You're wrong. A great example is how they're nerfing both the Sunfire and Moonfire traits on Tuesday with the patch for Boomkins, they weren't even used in M+ keys, they weren't even remotely in a good state(they weren't even used in PvP before you push that out). Here's the data on hectic cleave damage for azerite traits, what you're looking for specifically is High Noon and Power of the Moon: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#d...tacking&tier=3

Blizzard has zero clue what they're doing when they're nerfing traits and I shouldn't have to worry that I spent 2 months gathering a currency for them to gut it later on because they have no idea what they're doing.

So they are nerfing bad traits and thats a problem too? Hmm... guess you have to whine about exactly anything then...

[Zyky]

So they are nerfing bad traits and thats a problem too? Hmm... guess you have to whine about exactly anything then...

Nice troll buddy. I prove you wrong so you have to attempt to throw something else at me huh?

- - - Updated - - -

Where did you see the buff/nerfs coming Tuesday?

https://www.wowhead.com/news=287975/...te-blood-dk-ne

That's the consolidation of all the changes, with the exception of the ptr patch that just went up yesterday.

- High Noon was: Sunfire's radius is increased to 11 yds, and it deals 544 additional damage to its primary target.
- High Noon changed to: Sunfire's radius is increased to 11 yds, and it deals 93 additional periodic damage.

This change makes it so it's slightly better once you hit 6 targets, but not significantly enough to be used over other traits until close to ~15 targets which never happens in any area of play.

- Power of the Moon was: Moonfire deals 544 additional damage instantly, and has a 5% chance to grant you Lunar Empowerment.
- Power of the Moon changed to: Moonfire deals 72 additional periodic damage, and has a chance to grant Lunar Empowerment.

Same problem, this change is slightly better with 6 targets, however with the heavy nerf to Twin Moons, you'd have to use 6 globals on Moonfire, making it so this trait is still absolutely terrible.

[Asrialol]

Thank you! I try to post constructively

The thing is that back in Vanilla, at least IMO, the overall community was less elitist. We didn’t know the guts of the game inside and out yet, and even theory crafting was primitive compared to now (though what they accomplished, given the tools and info at the time, was incredible).

The rogue who did 10% more dps back then may have been a server legend. The rogue who has the item that does 10% more dps now is a REQUIREMENT for many pugs, and strongly pushed for in progression raids. This means while back in the day the unlucky rogue would most likely still have a raid spot but smaller Recount numbers, these days the poor bastard may never see the inside of a higher difficulty instance. That’s the big difference between legendaries and legiondaries; the latter was almost a requirement, which put way more pressure on the average Joe to farm it while diluting the original mystique of legendaries at the same time. I think all of the RNG and bloated, unpredictable ilvls are still causing the same problem, even without the orange text.

As for filling the time back in the day - it may just be me but I never ran out of stuff to do. There were mounts and titles to farm, there was gold to make, and (eventually) transmogs to play dress-up with. Rep grinding was also still there, just not forced, and usually had a bunch of fun cosmetic rewards instead of unlocking a game mode that we already unlocked 11 years ago. *cough flying*

Unfortunately I think Blizzard’s missteps are going to cost them money and send WoW into a spiral. It’s not just the 1% passionate enough to post on forums that were affected by BFA - my 70 year old dad who has been casualling around leveling alts for fun since release quit over the scaling screwups. My bf quit because of the combo of difficult terrain and insane mob density on top of being grounded, the first two issues we didn’t really have to worry about in Vanilla. To be fair those are personal anecdotes and only Blizzard themselves have the data, but it’s a trend I’ve seen among friends.

Err, are you saying terrain was "easy" in Vanilla? And mobs weren't dangerous? Or am I misunderstanding something here :P

I'm not really going to comment on the 1% and the "I know someone who means X, thus it's not just the 1%" thing. People on the forums and those who complain are always, and will always be a vocal minority. Heck, even the Diablo Immortal "outrage" was from a vocal minority.

Don't get me wrong, BFA has flaws. But not unlike any other expansion. There is more content and stuff to do now than in TBC, Wrath, Cata, Mop and WOD at least, so there's that.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that quite a bit portion of those who complain about Azerite gear are those who doesn't raid, or are quite casual. Meaning they don't actually need high end gear or the best traits for the content they do. They don't need to worry about minmaxing or anything.

I'm a casual myself, mostly pushing keys at +15-20, while pugging heroic/mythic Uldir when I can be arsed (which isnt often). While I'm not a huge fan of Azerite gear (Or artifact weapons with 0 customisation), some traits actually bring some interesting stuff to m+ gameplay. I can customise my character more now than before for the dungeons / affixes / group setup I'm doing, which I find engaging.

[Casperite]

I really don't like posting my opinions because with this forum the white knights and devil's advocates come out of the woodwork like the maggots they are to chew up any negative feedback for blizz... but here we go.



What is Titan Residuum? It's a random piece of lore they thought up in the last 10 minutes of an afternoon meeting to shoehorn into the game like 80% of current lore. Seriously Blizzard, you could have just added the feature in without insulting us with that stupid name with no basis in the universe whatsoever.



*big sigh* ... Okay, so, instead of giving value to the armor pieces you told us to farm for an absorbent amount of time since launch, SOMETHING / ANYTHING AT ALL, all of it is garbage and worth nothing to us in the scrap crapper. That's really rotten.



So, basically, you have to farm 2 M+? dungeons that drop 415 gear per one piece of azerite gear you actually want, but don't because it's 30 ilvls lower than the content you're farming, and it's not coming out till AFTER your big update patch? HOW IS THAT A SOLUTION TO ANYTHING!? Are you high? Are you -that- asinine? 165 x 4 = 660, and that's +15 which comes from previous scrappings, so that's at least 5 M+? dungeons for a single specific piece of gear!? And to EVENTUALLY farm random / specific gear that's worth anyone's time, that 415 SPECIFIC Azerite gear -PER PIECE- is going to be insanely expensive.

(I tried to do the math but it's late as of this post and I'm not good with advanced maths... came out to something like 12,000+ residuum so no...)



Every TWO OR THREE WEEKS... It'd be funny if it weren't so obviously bad and tragically sad.

So, they introduce a randomly thought-up resource with zero presidence in the lore, that could have potentially fixed your awful, major linchpin of this expansion (azerite gear). You then essentially make all the gear we've EARNED up until this time to be totally useless with this new system + currency. Compounding that you make everyone wait 11 more days to be able to start grinding (GRINDING, mind you) the gear you DO get something out of from really difficult M+ (Which most people I know of don't do because of a toxic, elitist asshat community of M+ dungeon-grinders) and a pittance from the weekly challenge chest. And to top it all off, the prices for gear you ACTUALLY WANT will be at a PREMIUM-premium price x times the amount of random pieces which are still laughably expensive themselves.

So... thanks for nothing Blizz. I hope you like sucking on that big ole fat corporate meatstick from Activision, you spineless puppets.

Infracted.

You open up with "anyone who disagrees with me is a maggot" essentially. So basically this is just you bitching with no intention of wanting to actually discuss anything. If all you want is people to agree with your tantrum then you came to the right place at least.

[Gasparde]

To be honest, one piece of Azerite gear of your own choice a week sounds fair enough.

But it's not one of your own choice. It's an RNG piece - and that after weeks of farming.

They said that it'll ideally take you like 2-3 weeks of saving for an RNG piece with specific pieces being long term goals.

[ChairmanKaga]

*big sigh* ... Okay, so, instead of giving value to the armor pieces you told us to farm for an absorbent amount of time

--- snip ---

[Volitar]

Of course gear obtained prior to the patch isn't going to be scrapable, how can anyone expect anything else?

Because Blizzard has a track record of this kind of shit. Sometimes they outright lie and say no you won't be able to do the thing to dissuade people to doing the thing but people who know better hoard stuff and do the thing on patch day. Its happened many times over many patches.

I've been keeping literally every Azurite item since they announced this because they are so inconsistent about shit like this.

[Laqweeta]

Does anyone know a good MoP private server?

PM me. 10char

[Fumu]

Err, are you saying terrain was "easy" in Vanilla? And mobs weren't dangerous? Or am I misunderstanding something here :P

I'm not really going to comment on the 1% and the "I know someone who means X, thus it's not just the 1%" thing. People on the forums and those who complain are always, and will always be a vocal minority. Heck, even the Diablo Immortal "outrage" was from a vocal minority.

Don't get me wrong, BFA has flaws. But not unlike any other expansion. There is more content and stuff to do now than in TBC, Wrath, Cata, Mop and WOD at least, so there's that.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that quite a bit portion of those who complain about Azerite gear are those who doesn't raid, or are quite casual. Meaning they don't actually need high end gear or the best traits for the content they do. They don't need to worry about minmaxing or anything.

I'm a casual myself, mostly pushing keys at +15-20, while pugging heroic/mythic Uldir when I can be arsed (which isnt often). While I'm not a huge fan of Azerite gear (Or artifact weapons with 0 customisation), some traits actually bring some interesting stuff to m+ gameplay. I can customise my character more now than before for the dungeons / affixes / group setup I'm doing, which I find engaging.

I was a heroic (back when it was Mythic) and mythic raider until the AP grind started in Legion. Also raided in Vanilla before those terms were a thing. Now I putter around in normal to see the content because the time investment for hardcore raiding was already enough without adding an endless ilvl treadmill to it.

Terrain was easier in Vanilla because 1. the mobs were concentrated into areas better and 2. The maps made more sense. In Vanilla if you ran into an ogre camp you got gangbanged, but if you followed the path you were fine. In parts of Legion and BFA the mobs are so thick that even the expected path has 500 mobs waiting to daze you, and maps like Antorus and Highmountain did an AWFUL job of showing you where you actually needed to go for WQs. The best comparison I can think of is that zones like Highmountain felt like that one cliff in oldschool Azshara with the Naga, and god help you if you fell and died there. It’s not as bad in BFA, but it’s still worse than it used to be.

Also you can’t really call yourself casual if you’re pugging high keys and setting foot into a current mythic raid, even this late into the patch cycle.

[Asrialol]

Nice troll buddy. I prove you wrong so you have to attempt to throw something else at me huh?

- - - Updated - - -



https://www.wowhead.com/news=287975/...te-blood-dk-ne

That's the consolidation of all the changes, with the exception of the ptr patch that just went up yesterday.

- High Noon was: Sunfire's radius is increased to 11 yds, and it deals 544 additional damage to its primary target.
- High Noon changed to: Sunfire's radius is increased to 11 yds, and it deals 93 additional periodic damage.

This change makes it so it's slightly better once you hit 6 targets, but not significantly enough to be used over other traits until close to ~15 targets which never happens in any area of play.

- Power of the Moon was: Moonfire deals 544 additional damage instantly, and has a 5% chance to grant you Lunar Empowerment.
- Power of the Moon changed to: Moonfire deals 72 additional periodic damage, and has a chance to grant Lunar Empowerment.

Same problem, this change is slightly better with 6 targets, however with the heavy nerf to Twin Moons, you'd have to use 6 globals on Moonfire, making it so this trait is still absolutely terrible.

Guess you don't do high m+ keys if you think 15+ targets never happens?

Potm is a buff, by the way. Have you tried simming it?