Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Arvei]

The report is going to get out eventually. The GOP is probably hoping to drag this out until 2020.

[Grapemask]

I've finally had some time to sit and stew over this. The report and the summary dropped while I was in the middle of a home renovation, so I only had time to make a few snarky comments here and there, but that was fine because it was pretty much as I expected it would be. Not that I didn't hope for more, but 2016 and daily interaction with the people and events that have come crawling out of the woodwork since then have gotten me pretty used to this Twilight Zone the planet has shifted into. And I'm not going to lie, I really want to throw an "I told you so" at the people around here who kept saying "No, no, this is totally different and the fuckbags are going to get shit on soon." Nope, we're firmly in shit trench, and we're only going to go deeper from here.

But, still, I've had time to think about it. And as much as I've come to expect garbage from garbageville, I've still been getting more and more annoyed by the little things. Mueller's refusal to come to a conclusion on obstruction feels like a cop out. After all, Trump went on national television and admitted to obstructing justice less than 48 hours after obstructing justice. He then went on to do so in private in conversations that have been multiple times confirmed, and has again and again pulled similar acts also with their own outright confessions. There is no definition of obstruction that exists that more clearly defines it than Trump's own actions, but I imagine if we ever do get to see the full report, it'll rationalize this cop-out by means of Trump being too stupid to understand that he was obstructing justice. Which is probably true, yet if I were to rob a bank but somehow be too stupid to know I was robbing the bank, I'd still be on the hook for robbing the bank.

It all really feels like a continuation of the South Park episodes where Garrison was doing everything he could to lose the election but just kept gaining in popularity. There should be a South Park episode where Garrison commits a crime in open view of the whole town and on video, then keeps admitting to having committed the crime, but Officer Barbrady and Detective Yates insist that they'll investigate it and then ultimately can't conclude that he did it. No, scrap that, I don't think any parody can accurately reflect how ridiculous the whole thing is.

I don't really care about the Russia thing. Trump has been a shitlord for over half a century, and his shitlording with Russia seems pretty minor compared to the rest of the shitlording he's done in his life. I think a lot of people were hoping that the investigation into Russia would lead into an investigation into Trump's shittery, which would almost certainly lead to charges - but examining how Mueller's wrapped up this case leads me to believe that he stayed laser-focused on Russian-linked charges despite the broad scope of his order. He turned in the report while having multiple cases that haven't even gone to trial yet, even though he had spent months working with those he charged in his earlier cases - plenty of these folks probably have a lot to say about Trump's shadier business dealings, but they're not getting the same offers for cooperation. This suggests that Mueller was only looking to get to the bottom of the Russia well, not to go on a Tolkien journey to Trump's personal Mordor of depravity.

And that last point gets me annoyed even more. Even every Trumpian fuckbag in this thread argues from that same vague place of Yeah, maybe Trump did commit a crime, but it wasn't this one and you didn't catch him! Neener neener! Imagine being that okay with the corruption of your chosen team's chosen candidate. That's an unprecedented level of fuckery and nothing to be proud of. It's a mental god damn illness.

[wunksta]

And that last point gets me annoyed even more. Even every Trumpian fuckbag in this thread argues from that same vague place of Yeah, maybe Trump did commit a crime, but it wasn't this one and you didn't catch him! Neener neener! Imagine being that okay with the corruption of your chosen team's chosen candidate. That's an unprecedented level of fuckery and nothing to be proud of. It's a mental god damn illness.

Pretty much.

[Daelak]

Alright, why would McConnel block it. Can i get an a reasonable response?

You wont get any from the woke conservatives on this board, but this, just like the four page summary itself is a blaring five alarm fire siren. We are losing our country to authoritarianism.

[Somewhatconcerned]

"It's not what you know. It's what you can prove."

[DarkTZeratul]

Alright, why would McConnel block it. Can i get an a reasonable response?

Dunno about McConnell, but Lindsay Graham's argument was "something something Hilary Clinton, both sides, but her e-mails!"

[Somewhatconcerned]

You wont get any from the woke conservatives on this board, but this, just like the four page summary itself is a blaring five alarm fire siren. We are losing our country to authoritarianism.

Well it's what the people voted for and continue to support/support more, so they clear know what it is by now and want more of it. /shrug, it is what it is. Times change.

[Benggaul]

Except the DOJ knew for 3 weeks that he would not be reaching a conclusion on this. https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/mu...ay-2019-03-25/

Cool! Then in that case if everything's kosher they should have no problems releasing the full report to the pub-
*Nunes blocks 420-0 House measure to release the report*
*Barr sees no reason to release the report*
*McConnal blocks Democrat measure to release the report*
I'd be more willing to accept Barr's "summary" if those GOP fuckwits were willing to let the public see what it actually had to say. Instead they sandbag, circle the wagons and ensure that this will be a long, drawn-out battle until the report is inevitably leaked by some party or another who has had enough of the bullshit. There must be something pretty damned damaging (even if it's not enough to secure a conviction) if they are all fighting so hard to protect it from public view.

[Grapemask]

Well it's what the people voted for and continue to support/support more, so they clear know what it is by now and want more of it. /shrug, it is what it is. Times change.

But not really, because they lost the popular vote. We can nitpick about the details of the system of vote counting and who wins based on that system, but the reality is that more actual people voted against these things than for them. In fact, the trend for the last 35 years has been away from these things, it's only the system of choosing winners that has shifted toward it.

[beanman12345]

Well it's what the people voted for and continue to support/support more, so they clear know what it is by now and want more of it. /shrug, it is what it is. Times change.

It's like your whole narrative completely ignores 2018 elections.

[D Luniz]

*snip*

its a group that needs to feel they've "won"
but every win they get, the left never feels as bad as they feel, so they get mad, and lash out more thinking theyll somehow punish the left and then it will all be worth it

its why they whine about being ignored, then scream they want more freedom

the endless gripes about California and New York, but both are looked to by the rest of the world, but when people bring up the midwest or the south, its often to mock them as a step from living in the 1700s

Im not sure who has that David Flum quote as their sig, but your seeing where they feel democracy has failed them, but the things they expected it to do was unrealistic

so they are abadoning it

[Stormspark]

its a group that needs to feel they've "won"
but every win they get, the left never feels as bad as they feel, so they get mad, and lash out more thinking theyll somehow punish the left and then it will all be worth it

its why they whine about being ignored, then scream they want more freedom

the endless gripes about California and New York, but both are looked to by the rest of the world, but when people bring up the midwest or the south, its often to mock them as a step from living in the 1700s

Im not sure who has that David Flum quote as their sig, but your seeing where they feel democracy has failed them, but the things they expected it to do was unrealistic

so they are abadoning it

I honestly hope, that everyone that still supports Trump now, has to live under a dictatorship and has their lives destroyed.

[Thepersona]

Well it's what the people voted for and continue to support/support more, so they clear know what it is by now and want more of it. /shrug, it is what it is. Times change.

Mmm.. so they support more accountability? because the 2018 elections happened, and the republicans were trounced.

[Somewhatconcerned]

But not really, because they lost the popular vote. We can nitpick about the details of the system of vote counting and who wins based on that system, but the reality is that more actual people voted against these things than for them. In fact, the trend for the last 35 years has been away from these things, it's only the system of choosing winners that has shifted toward it.

The Dems can continue to cry about the rules of the game (rules which aren't going to change easily), or they can simply play a better game.

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It's like your whole narrative completely ignores 2018 elections.

It's hard to reconcile the midterms now because even though the candidates didn't really campaign on the Russia collusion hoax, it was undoubtedly on voters' minds and I am sure swayed voters.

Now that it has been cleared up, there will likely be a big pendulum shift the other way.

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly hope, that everyone that still supports Trump now, has to live under a dictatorship and has their lives destroyed.

But don't you see, that his supporters don't see it as a dictatorship (even as a nonsupporter I don't see it a dictatorship, not right now) and don't see their lives being destroyed. Stop with the hyperbole.

[beanman12345]

The Dems can continue to cry about the rules of the game (rules which aren't going to change easily), or they can simply play a better game.

- - - Updated - - -



It's hard to reconcile the midterms now because even though the candidates didn't really campaign on the Russia collusion hoax, it was undoubtedly on voters' minds and I am sure swayed voters.

Now that it has been cleared up, there will likely be a big pendulum shift the other way.

except it wasn't the reason any of them voted the way they did, according to polling. they voted the way they did because of the issues that mattered, like healthcare.

[Somewhatconcerned]

except it wasn't the reason any of them voted the way they did, according to polling. they voted the way they did because of the issues that mattered, like healthcare.

Think we've learned by now that polls are meaningless.

The left has been taking a black eye after black eye since 2016 and I'm tired of them just doubling down on the same tactics/rhetoric. I think some of you are VASTLY underestimating how much of a stink this is going to leave in place. Even if the Dems just drop it and move on (unlikely), Trump won't let voters forget it. Add on top of it a candidate field that will either get painted as "too corporatist" or "too socialist" and you have the makings of a disappointing 2020.

Maybe Steve Bannon was right. You're looking at the next 50 years of Republican rule.

[Shadowferal]

I just can't see how it would benefit him politically at all. At least if he let the full report out or feigned "support" for it he could save some face. This just makes things very very suspicious from my simple minded point of view.

But McConnell objected, noting that Attorney General William Barr is working with Mueller to determine what in his report can be released publicly and what cannot.

"The special counsel and the Justice Department ought to be allowed to finish their work in a professional manner," McConnell said. "To date, the attorney general has followed through on his commitments to Congress. One of those commitments is that he intends to release as much information as possible."

Under Senate rules, any one senator can try to pass or set up a vote on a bill, resolution or nomination. But in turn, any one senator can block their request.

Schumer added after McConnell's objection that the resolution didn't say the report should be released "immediately" but just that it ought to be released.

"I'm sort of befuddled by the majority leader's reasoning in this regard because it is not in the words of this resolution," he said.

But McConnell countered that the president has had to wait two years while the investigation was ongoing and "it's not unreasonable to give the special counsel and the Justice Department just a little time to complete their review in a professional and responsible manner."

-----------------------------

McConnell is just stalling.

[Mekkle]

But McConnell objected, noting that Attorney General William Barr is working with Mueller to determine what in his report can be released publicly and what cannot.

"The special counsel and the Justice Department ought to be allowed to finish their work in a professional manner," McConnell said. "To date, the attorney general has followed through on his commitments to Congress. One of those commitments is that he intends to release as much information as possible."

Under Senate rules, any one senator can try to pass or set up a vote on a bill, resolution or nomination. But in turn, any one senator can block their request.

Schumer added after McConnell's objection that the resolution didn't say the report should be released "immediately" but just that it ought to be released.

"I'm sort of befuddled by the majority leader's reasoning in this regard because it is not in the words of this resolution," he said.

But McConnell countered that the president has had to wait two years while the investigation was ongoing and "it's not unreasonable to give the special counsel and the Justice Department just a little time to complete their review in a professional and responsible manner."

-----------------------------

McConnell is just stalling.

thank you, will pocket that in the ol' noggin'

[beanman12345]

Think we've learned by now that polls are meaningless.

The left has been taking a black eye after black eye since 2016 and I'm tired of them just doubling down on the same tactics/rhetoric. I think some of you are VASTLY underestimating how much of a stink this is going to leave in place. Even if the Dems just drop it and move on (unlikely), Trump won't let voters forget it. Add on top of it a candidate field that will either get painted as "too corporatist" or "too socialist" and you have the makings of a disappointing 2020.

Maybe Steve Bannon was right. You're looking at the next 50 years of Republican rule.

again 2018 completely destroys this narrative of yours, but go ahead. Continue to conveniently ignore it.

[Orange Joe]

Think we've learned by now that polls are meaningless.

The left has been taking a black eye after black eye since 2016 and I'm tired of them just doubling down on the same tactics/rhetoric. I think some of you are VASTLY underestimating how much of a stink this is going to leave in place. Even if the Dems just drop it and move on (unlikely), Trump won't let voters forget it. Add on top of it a candidate field that will either get painted as "too corporatist" or "too socialist" and you have the makings of a disappointing 2020.

Maybe Steve Bannon was right. You're looking at the next 50 years of Republican rule.

Only thing we have learned is that ignorant people that like to ignore whats really said, don't understand how polls/numbers work.