Joker [with Joaquin Phoenix]

[Elba]

I honestly don't even know what you're talking about anymore. If anything you're reinforcing my point rather than countering it.

I am talking about how a movie that tries to portray a psychopathic killer as sympathetic and (somewhat) justified in his actions will be popular with edge lords. Nothing more.

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Getting pushed around and beaten up is a pretty boring reason to becoming one of the most iconic super villains in comic book history.

Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.

[jackofwind]

Getting pushed around and beaten up is a pretty boring reason to becoming one of the most iconic super villains in comic book history.

Sure, but that doesn't make it an invalid reason. Besides, it could be something more interesting than that and still portray him as a tragic character - there are plenty of examples of characters that do hard 180 turns and become villains in classic drama and there's lots of other options than being beaten up and pushed around.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So you think WW is worse than catwoman, suicide squad, bvs, justice league, green lantern, daredevil, supergirl and elektra?

Yes though the gaps are very small, wonderwoman didn’t have a single scene I enjoyed or any positive at all other then the one I mentioned in my last post.

Cat woman had cats i like cats, it’s something even if a small thing.

Suicide squad had a few good scenes like Mexican fire mans back story or any scene with dead shot and his daughter.

BvS has super man wrecking Batman’s car and the sub plot with the crippled man being anti super man.

Justice league had super man beating every one up which was the only part I enjoyed of that mess.

Ect ect, Woman woman lakced any scenes I enjoyed and unlike cat woman didn’t even have cats. It was a lifeless joyless bore fest from Beginning to end if you ask me.

[fakaroonie]

Fuuucking love it! It's gonna be really good.

Although he does look quite old, I'm pretty sure we will see batsy too, probably just a suit, no actor. Since Affleck is just... not batman.

It looks like it's gonna have a lot of depth, and then something will snap and boom!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Injustice movies would be retarded as fuck. You can't do deconstruction without having the real thing first.

You need to establish the real, bright versions of the characters in the general audience's consciousness first before going for the edgy shit.

There is a reason MoS, SQ, BvS and JL failed.

Well ya I agree, they could need to actually build a world to pull it off but so far they have only had one train wreck after another.

Injustice would need to be the equivalent of infinity war with tons of movie before it to actually make us care.

[Alvito]

The DC movies are often major disappointments. The upside is with the bar set so low it does allow one or two of them to shine through and happily surprise. The reality is that most are still big let downs even when expecting nothing. They are like the super hero version of a Micheal Bay movie, driven by explosions, special effects or odd lighting.

[jackofwind]

I am talking about how a movie that tries to portray a psychopathic killer as sympathetic and (somewhat) justified in his actions will be popular with edge lords. Nothing more.

If it does that, then sure. But it's very possible for a character to be considered tragic and for them to also be completely unjustified in their inevitable actions. Macbeth is a solid example of this - he starts out unequivocally as a hero and then becomes an outright villain, driven entirely by his greed and desire for personal gain.

[Ihavewaffles]

Some interesting points

[Elba]

Well ya I agree, they could need to actually build a world to pull it off but so far they have only had one train wreck after another.

Injustice would need to be the equivalent of infinity war with tons of movie before it to actually make us care.

Yup, they should have started with stand alone films and worked slowly towards a shared universe. But they got greedy and rushed it without a plan.

If they had done it right there could have been a proper, successful Injustice film by 2025 or so.

[jackofwind]

Yes though the gaps are very small, wonderwoman didn’t have a single scene I enjoyed or any positive at all other then the one I mentioned in my last post.

Cat woman had cats i like cats, it’s something even if a small thing.

Suicide squad had a few good scenes like Mexican fire mans back story or any scene with dead shot and his daughter.

BvS has super man wrecking Batman’s car and the sub plot with the crippled man being anti super man.

Justice league had super man beating every one up which was the only part I enjoyed of that mess.

Ect ect, Woman woman lakced any scenes I enjoyed and unlike cat woman didn’t even have cats. It was a lifeless joyless bore fest from Beginning to end if you ask me.

That's a pretty unorthodox way of rating movies, but I guess if it works for you then roll with it.

[Elba]

If it does that, then sure. But it's very possible for a character to be considered tragic and for them to also be completely unjustified in their inevitable actions. Macbeth is a solid example of this - he starts out unequivocally as a hero and then becomes an outright villain, driven entirely by his greed and desire for personal gain.

Absolutely agree. I just don't trust Warner Bros. At all.

[Coldfrostzero]

Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.

Correct, he is crazy for crazy's sake. The Killing Joke backstory just gives him the reasons for his core to be completely shook. He's disfigured, alone, and was being framed for an entire crime. Its a fun take on why he also wants to destroy Batman's mind and spirit, Batman pushed him over the edge and stands for everything sane in the world while he wants the world to be like his reality: chaos.

Sure, but that doesn't make it an invalid reason. Besides, it could be something more interesting than that and still portray him as a tragic character - there are plenty of examples of characters that do hard 180 turns and become villains in classic drama and there's lots of other options than being beaten up and pushed around.

I just don't see how making the Joker "tragic" is a good story. He's not supposed to be a personification of evil. He's supposed to be the antithesis of Batman's representation of order. He's not out seeking revenge on the world because someone bullied him. He's trying to prove that his reality is the "true" reality that everyone is just as insane as him.

[Mrbleedinggums]

Lol, this looks like it will be popular with the edge boys.

"The Joker is totally misunderstood and the real victim, maaan. The psychopathic mass murderer has a point!"

That moment when you fail to realize that's been the case the whole time. Both Batman and Joker are valid in their ideologies, even if the execution makes the readers/viewers left wanting. It's basically been the whole "Two Wolves" Native American story where they're a fractured half of themselves, but while one rose from the ashes the other succumbed to their inner darkness. All it takes is one bad day for someone to snap.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's a pretty unorthodox way of rating movies, but I guess if it works for you then roll with it.

I don’t really see any other way to rate movies other then off how many scenes you enjoyed and the overall story.

For example winter soldier Proabbly doesn’t have the most scenes I’ve enjoyed in a comic movie but the over all story makes up for that and it has far more good scenes then bad thus putting it at the top of my list.

Then there’s things like Batman and robin, the story and lay out of the movie is pretty awful but with mr freeze it has so many scenes I adore putting it above a lot of other comic movies for me even if others might have better story’s.

Wonder Woman lacks a good story good scenes or even any thing that is visually appealing which is really far down to me on things that matter in movies. It just has absolutely nothing going for it where some thing like cat woman is also a complete train wreck but atleast it has cats.

[Jibjub]

This movie will either be terrible, amazing, or just OK.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yup, they should have started with stand alone films and worked slowly towards a shared universe. But they got greedy and rushed it without a plan.

If they had done it right there could have been a proper, successful Injustice film by 2025 or so.

Ya the dcu is such a huge disappointment on every level and what makes it even worse is that they have an interconnected movie verse with the animated films but for some reason they were to dumb to do the same with the live action ones.

[Yunaqt]

Okay, yeah this actually looks like it could be decent. The Dark Knight trilogy is my favourite of all the comic book movies to date.

[Machismo]

The movie looks pretty decent, but I wonder how far along his story it will go. From the looks of it, it's purely an origin story, and won't have much with him after he's completely gone off the deep end. Joaquin Phoenix can act his ass off, so he will carry the movie. but I hope it's not just a standalone.

[Ihavewaffles]

I honestly don't even know what you're talking about anymore. If anything you're reinforcing my point rather than countering it.

There's people that try to do valid criticism, and then there's elba...has he ever made a post without toxic vitriol?...

His signature alone...n that stupid avatar whose face u want to punch...how this guy avoids being constantly banned i don't know, his single-minded goal seems to take a dump in every thread...

[Coldfrostzero]

Ya the dcu is such a huge disappointment on every level and what makes it even worse is that they have an interconnected movie verse with the animated films but for some reason they were to dumb to do the same with the live action ones.

The animated films are generally fantastic. If they were smart, they would either adapt those to live-action or get the writers on board for a live-action adaptation.