[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Ozyorkbourne]

Jon has been pretty garbage this whole season

If he'd have just said no when asked "Just as your queen" or w/e. Imagine being the guy who kinda helped a city burn because you didn't fuck your aunt hard enough when she was undecided on ruling by love or fear. Whoops.

[potis]

Her madness basically starts because she is jealous of Jon.

Her entire arc and growth is undermined by her relation to a man.

Considering the wider social context around Daenerys, almost as an icon of feminsim, it is a massive fuck you to that section of te audience for D+D to undermine it so blatantly.

Well, not really, females overreacting and snapping? Very rare, yes yes.

[MakeMeLaugh]

exactly. never see qyburn making anymore, because he didnt. they used the caches of the mad kings.
the maesters made the cache for the battle of blackwater bay.

I could be wrong, but from what I remember they produced wildfire back then.

[Drutt]

Enjoyed the whole thing outside of the Jaime/Cersei character arc.

8 seasons and Jaime basically didn't go anywhere in the end. That's profoundly disappointing.

I guess it makes sense if your underlying point is people are generally shitbirds.

[Wildberry]

His arc was never about breaking free from Cersei. It was about breaking free from himself and what others thought (just like Tywin told him). In the end he forgave himself for killing a king and came to terms with who he is, loving Cersei no matter what others said or thought. Everything he has ever done was to get back to Cersei until he left her to go North briefly.

Except for his Riverlands arc in the book, but you know who cares about that or the Valonqar prophecy, or anything of that sort.

[Wermys]

Holy fuck that was atrocious

Just off the top of my head.

1. Every confrontation felt so forced. Euron vs Jaime. Sandor vs Gregor. It felt like it was horribly written to end these characters.

2. Dragon fire is somehow explosive like TNT and apparently endless. We get it that dragon's fire is magical and extremely hot but there's no consistency when it leaves people burning but can melt and blow up stone

3. The Dany flip was too extreme and too fast. I have no problem with Dany become the villain but when she goes from being highly rational to being so fucking crazy she burns the city with HER ARMY INSIDE its just too fucking stupid to believe.

4. The Northmen who just shown as noble 2 episodes ago become rapey as fuck and completely ignore their previous King of the North they swore too

5. Jon Snow is just obnoxious at this point. This is suppose to be the character we root for but this episode made him seem like a total cuckhold

Nope perfectly in line with how the North operates. Jon, Robb, etc were exceptions to the rule of how the Northernors operated. Ned's older brother would have joined in the sacking if he were in charge.

[Wildberry]

Well, not really, females overreacting and snapping? Very rare, yes yes.

Wow, a strong, independent woman turns crazy as she's on the cusp of power and goes on to commit atrocities as foreigners under her command go around raping and whatnot?

I'm shocked, how could D&D slap feminists in the face with something so unrealistic!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Oh yes, all those traumatic events led her to kill all the innocents for no reason.

If she did snap like you said, she better be laughing maniacally next episode. Otherwise, she didn't snap at all and it was just a shit plot device used once again, to paint her as mad queen.

People don’t have to become the joker after going over a ledge it’s not an either or. Even if she was regretful it wouldn’t be bad writing people can and do make horrible emotional decisions and end up killing and don’t start laughing maniacally in real life and in media. Sure the scale is higher but being a fantasy dragon queen the scale was always going to be.

[RobertoCarlos]

People don’t have to become the joker after going over a ledge it’s not an either or. Even if she was regretful it wouldn’t be bad writing people can and do make horrible emotional decisions and end up killing and don’t start laughing maniacally in real life and in media. Sure the scale is higher but being a fantasy dragon queen the scale was always going to be.

all it takes is one bad day!

[Adam Jensen]

The best episode so far this season.

Unfortunately.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

all it takes is one bad day!

Or one bad week in Danny’s case.

[Khaza-R]

Enjoyed the whole thing outside of the Jaime/Cersei character arc.

8 seasons and Jaime basically didn't go anywhere in the end. That's profoundly disappointing.

I guess it makes sense if your underlying point is people are generally shitbirds.

I actually thought that was the only decent thing this episode.

Jaime has had development, he's become more honorable. But he has always done everything for his family in one form or another.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope perfectly in line with how the North operates. Jon, Robb, etc were exceptions to the rule of how the Northernors operated. Ned's older brother would have joined in the sacking if he were in charge.

I mean that's fine. A bit inconsistent considering men without morals probably wouldn't go and die fighting some undead ravenous horde they have no chance of beating but whatever.

But its also another thing to suddenly get rapey when there's a dragon literally blowing the city into pieces

[buck008]

Holy fuck that was atrocious

Just off the top of my head.

1. Every confrontation felt so forced. Euron vs Jaime. Sandor vs Gregor. It felt like it was horribly written to end these characters.

2. Dragon fire is somehow explosive like TNT and apparently endless. We get it that dragon's fire is magical and extremely hot but there's no consistency when it leaves people burning but can melt and blow up stone

3. The Dany flip was too extreme and too fast. I have no problem with Dany become the villain but when she goes from being highly rational to being so fucking crazy she burns the city with HER ARMY INSIDE its just too fucking stupid to believe.

4. The Northmen who just shown as noble 2 episodes ago become rapey as fuck and completely ignore their previous King of the North they swore too

5. Jon Snow is just obnoxious at this point. This is suppose to be the character we root for but this episode made him seem like a total cuckhold

1. Euron/Jaime, sure. But Euron was just a stock psychopath in the show from his first scene, so fine. Cleganebowl though? That's been coming for literally the entire show. It's Sandor's reason for existing. It was a great moment.

2. Her dragons have done that for the whole show. Magic fire. Solved.

3. The turn was always coming but happened too fast. I put that more on HBO than the writers. I think it was always the ending in mind. She was crazier in the books. And she wasn't rational. Her whole world and everything she's been working towards has come crashing down. She wasn't welcomed as a hero and the true rightful Queen like she was always assured she would be. The people went between distrust and hate. They love Jon Snow. He's suddenly not Jon Snow, but has a better claim to the throne now. Two of her dragons die, one becomes an undead monstrosity. Her closest friends and advisers die or betray her. She was not highly rational. Not for a while. The bells ring and she loses her one last chance for revenge and she doesn't care. She takes it anyway.

4. The Northmen were never noble. They were never portrayed as noble. They were portrayed as loyal. They were killing Lannisters and southerners. The enemy. This isn't the first conquering army in the show to go this way. It's not the first northern army to do so either. Unless a Stark was right there watching.

5. He's not a cuckold. Taking aside the fact that using that word as an insult is just moronic from the start, his flaw isn't that he's being emasculated by some manipulative woman. His flaw is what it always has been. It's why Catelyn Stark was always so cold to him in the books. Of all the kids, he was the most like his father. His adoptive father. His flaw is exactly the same as Ned's. It is what is going to get him killed as well.

[enigma77]

I feel like yeah this could have been done right at the beginning of season 7 when she still had the support of Highgarden, the Iron Islands and Dorne on top of a much larger army and three dragons. Basically all of season 7 was Tyrion and Varys screwing up her plan only for her to burn down the city anyway. Back when they had no or few ballistas you know, she could have just blasted a hole through the wall as she did in this episode and her army would have easily conquered the city.

If Season 7 had been all about the war between Danerys and Cersei and its aftermath and Season 8 had been about the Night King as the ultimate villain, this show would have ended vastly better in my opinion.

[RobertoCarlos]

Drogon was using a cracked pepper stimulant this episode, pretty effective.

[enigma77]

2. Dragon fire is somehow explosive like TNT and apparently endless. We get it that dragon's fire is magical and extremely hot but there's no consistency when it leaves people burning but can melt and blow up stone

It has always been this way. Watch the season 7 episode where she burned the wagons. When the dragon fire impacts something there's always a kind of explosive effect.

Dragon fire isn't just fire imo, it's a burning chemical substance propelled at something with considerable speed/force.

[buck008]

If Season 7 had been all about the war between Danerys and Cersei and its aftermath and Season 8 had been about the Night King as the ultimate villain, this show would have ended vastly better in my opinion.

That's never been what the series has been about. The magic stuff has always been sort of ancillary. The prophesies are always mostly wrong, but just correct enough that people still mostly believe. Night King was never going to be the ultimate villain. That would have been disappointing.

[RobertoCarlos]

guys dany burned down an entire city.

Her dad would have been so proud.

And they faded to black 3 times on Arya, chill

[Hypasonic]

Wouldn't suprise me if jaime and cersei appear alive and well in the next episode, they like to leave things open to interpretation when it comes to "killing off" characters. Sometimes they ain't dead unless you literally see them choke on their own blood lol, I guess the mountain is fine given he survived a sword through his head, a fall of a few hundred feet into burning flames probably just tickled him.

Still, I don't see what gives jaime super-human abilities, somehow walking from being stabbed several times with a sword hmmm

[enigma77]

That's never been what the series has been about. The magic stuff has always been sort of ancillary. The prophesies are always mostly wrong, but just correct enough that people still mostly believe. Night King was never going to be the ultimate villain. That would have been disappointing.

I disagree. The Night King and the army of the dead for many seasons has been vocally portrayed as 'the real enemy'. An army of the living dead led by ice demons must be a greater threat than a vain Queen. The show failed to follow this simple logic and that's why this season has been such a disappointment to so many people. For all the talk about the Night King and the threat he presents, he died losing his very first battle and the vast majority of Westeros never even got to see his face.

In my opinion (until season 8) the theme of the show has been: political squabbling and backstabbing by various lords and ladies while the storm gathers. And then the storm did come and barely anyone noticed. In the show the Night King and the White Walkers have always been presented as the ultimate evil and greatest threat.