Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[HeiAggra]

Yea gimme that link please

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/blood-elf
There you go!

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They're not. Blood elves are in the Horde, and playable. High elves are in the Alliance, and not playable.

Read also the link from the armory.

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They are a thing, they are in game, and they are not horde.
This is such low quality bait...

Same too you read the race link.

Let me just shed some light here, i hope it helps. Ah the source is the link above. WOW offical website

"Vengeful Outsiders

For nearly 7,000 years, high elven society centered on the sacred Sunwell, a magical fount that was created using a vial of pure arcane energy from the first Well of Eternity. Nourished and strengthened by the Sunwell’s potent energies, the high elves’ enchanted kingdom of Quel’Thalas prospered within the verdant forests north of Lordaeron.
Blood Elf History

During the Third War, however, the high elves were nearly scoured from Azeroth. Led by the death knight Arthas, a Scourge army stormed into Quel’Thalas, slaughtering almost ninety percent of the kingdom’s population. Arthas then used the mystical Sunwell to resurrect the fallen necromancer Kel’Thuzad, irrevocably tainting the fount in the process.

Fearing that the befouled well would obliterate his dwindling race, Prince Kael’thas Sunstrider gathered a group of Quel’Thalas’s defenders and destroyed the fount to avert catastrophe. Although the high elves were spared from continued exposure to the Sunwell’s dark energies, in the fount’s absence they suffered terribly from withdrawal. As a result, Kael’thas desperately searched for a means to help his people—whom he had renamed the blood elves."

And don't start with the Fel bla bla bla because they were renamed after the attack on Quel'thalas and not after starting to use the fel magic to help with the addiction to arcane magic.

[elbleuet]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/blood-elf
There you go!

Yea that's what I thought... Blood elves... not High elves but nice try.

Next step you're gonna say that Void elves are Blood elves ?

[EntertainmentNihilist]

Here's a suggestion, and how I would implement high elves if I were God-Emperor of blizzard:

1. Aside from the different eye-color, give alliance high elves hair style options that blood elves don't have, and don't give them all of the blood elves hair styles. The same could also apply to faces. Essentially, give both races distinct customization options. There can be overlap, but there should be some difference.

2. Since Silver Covenant elves are more "pure" than blood elves, how about giving them different class options as well. Maybe high elves can't be warlocks or death knights, but have learned shamanism from the wildhammer dwarves and/or druidism from the night elves.

3. Make them an allied race that you unlock by doing a bunch of interesting stuff for the silver covenant.

4. Obviously, give them distinct racials. Maybe something involving stabilizing your mana, given their victory over magic addiction. Say, an active racial that temporarily reduces mana costs.

5. Give Blood elves and High elves more eye colors that don't overlap. Blood elves get multiple shades of green, yellow, orange, and red. High elves get shades of blue, pink, and purple.

How many people would be happy with this solution?

[Obelisk Kai]

But... They are?!

If Void Elves = Blood Elves according to you, and Blood Elves = High Elves according to Blizzard, then the logical conclusion is that Void Elves = High Elves and that that is the issue sorted with no further changes required because Void Elves must be acceptable.

If on the other hand Void Elves are not acceptable, then they cannot be identical to Blood Elves as Blood Elves are identical to High Elves.

The final idea that Void Elves and Blood Elves are identical, and Alliance High Elves are the ones who are different, is of course not worthy of discussion due to Void Elves having a completely different colour scheme and optional hair tentacles.

[HeiAggra]

Yea that's what I thought... Blood elves... not High elves but nice try.

Next step you're gonna say that Void elves are Blood elves ?

OMG that is what i call being selective reader hahaha
Face it High Elves and Blood Elves are the same.
As far as Void Elves go, yes they are Belfs that were messing with the Void.

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If Void Elves = Blood Elves according to you, and Blood Elves = High Elves according to Blizzard, then the logical conclusion is that Void Elves = High Elves and that that is the issue sorted with no further changes required because Void Elves must be acceptable.

If on the other hand Void Elves are not acceptable, then they cannot be identical to Blood Elves as Blood Elves are identical to High Elves.

The final idea that Void Elves and Blood Elves are identical, and Alliance High Elves are the ones who are different, is of course not worthy of discussion due to Void Elves having a completely different colour scheme and optional hair tentacles.

No point Kai they have no salvation.
Selective blindness is their problem

[Obelisk Kai]

It doesn't count. For a few reasons. First, because none of the void elves existed before the BfA pre-patch. Alleria was a "lone wolf" of sorts. Second, because the void elves' inception had nothing to do with Alleria. The two arrived at (roughly) the same 'status' through different, unrelated means.

She wasn't the one who brought the means of "void-i-fication" to Azeroth. She did not convince the blood elves to become void elves. It was merely chance that brought them together.

That's like saying Teron Gorefiend counts as the player Death Knight's lore... when we know they're only related by name..

I am glad you admit that Alleria arrived at her Void Elf status through different, unrelated means, as many pro High Elfers who seek the aesthetics have sought to portray Alleria as the template upon which they wish other Void Elves would follow, i.e. a toggle between a Void Elf form and an apparently normal Blood/High Elf form. This admits that Alleria's unique capabilities in this regard are a consequence of her unique transformation and that it cannot be used as a template for future Void Elves.

Leaving that aside, Alleria cannot be so neatly divorced from the rest of the Void Elves as Teron Gorefiend can be divorced from modern Death Knights. While there is a parallel in that Gorefiend type Death Knights are entirely separate from Scourge Death Knights, there similarities end. Gorefiend never had any interaction with the Death Knights of the Scourge after all, Alleria is the Void Elf racial leader and mentor.

It is appropriate to regard the Void Elf storyline as having it's genesis with Alleria. In fact the polygon interview with Moorgard on Allied races, the one that affirmed that Void Elves can convert other Elves, stated that as a fact 'With Alleria Windrunner’s story being an internal success on Argus, the team saw it as the opportunity for a new twist on elves'.

As such, there was Void Elf participation in Legion even if it was a singular Void Elf, the first Void Elf.

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I mean, this can be repeated over and over, but until we see it in action it's just player headcanon/assumption. By that I mean, until we see High Elves manifesting Golden Eyes like Blood Elves do, or Vereesa's violet there from an allegedly Arcane Shot going to some Blood Elves then as it stands from what developers have stated: Blood Elves are the only ones to be having Golden Eyes based on where their story is now.

For instance it's constantly only some players that bring up the Sunwell being both arcane and holy, and while that is mentioned in Chronicles, when it comes to dev talk specifically, that arcane bit is never mentioned. Only the Light based Sunwell is commented on through the game and the developers. Judging my developer commentary, the arcane portion must not have any significance for developers to continually leave it out. As I'm sure some would state the same way developers speak of High Elves.

Alliance High Elves are biologically identical to Blood Elves, and this includes the addiction to magic. Alliance High Elves ALSO sate this addiction by drawing magic from the Sunwell, the same as the Blood Elves and which was confirmed in 'In the shadow of the sun'. The golden eyes are currently manifested by Paladins and Priest NPCs in game, the logical inference being that their propensity to wield the light has sped up the manifestation of their golden eyes, which is also attributed to the light based sunwell.

Alliance High Elves are comprised of two main groups. The first are the few mages of the Kirin Tor or civilians who remained behind in Dalaran after the majority either a.) went home with Kael'thas following the fall of the city (and then returned as the Sunreavers) or b.) emigrated to Kalimdor alongside Jaina where they likely ended up on the business end of the mana bomb. The second, and seemingly larger group, are the former Farstriders who either rejected Quel'thalas' isolationism after the Second War or who reverted to calling themselves high elves after they rejected Rommath's teachings (which means that the inhabitants of Quel'lithien lodge must have called themselves Blood Elves for a time before reverting to the former name, showing just how minor a difference it truly is). An extrapolation of this could be that, given the Alliance High Elves extremely low population numbers, there simply aren't enough Paladins or Priests who have manifested the golden eyes.

The real reason of course is that Blizzard gives Alliance High Elf npcs unique blue eyed skins when creating an Alliance High Elf npc and doesn't seem to be too bothered about popping in the odd golden eyed one, particularly as in game only Blood Elf Paladins have those eyes consistently and Alliance High Elf npcs tend to be Mages or Hunters.

But to presume that Alliance High Elves cannot have golden eyes is not headcanon. It is a consequence of how they sate their addiction, using the holy based energy of the Sunwell. Alliance High Elves are biologically identical to Blood Elves, and if Blood Elves can manifest golden eyes, so can Alliance High Elves.

As for 'leaving out the arcane' part when discussing the Sunwell, the fact it is mentioned in online sources and chronicles is enough. If someone says the water was cold, does the water stop being wet because they neglected to mention that quality? The Sunwell does have an Arcane component within it, and we shall see what Blizzard does with that fact should they ever offer an advanced eye colour customization to all races, something Ion was pretty open about that they were considering as one of the easier customization choices to offer.

[elbleuet]

OMG that is what i call being selective reader hahaha
Face it High Elves and Blood Elves are the same.

Ofc they're the same since they are the same race.

What's your point ?

A high elf is a blue-eyed, Alliance elf. A blood elf is a fel tainted, Horde elf.

as far as Void Elves go, yes they are Belfs that were messing with the Void.

From this logic blood elves are just Night elves that were messing too far with arcane magic.

[Ielenia]

Read also the link from the armory.

I'm sorry, you seem to have put the wrong link in your post. Those are blood elves, not high elves. All it says about high elves is their ancestry. It even says, there, how they rebranded themselves, splintering off the remaining few high elves.

If "ancestry" is all that counts, then nightborne are night elves. What baiters like you fail to realize-- actually, no. You know too well, just willfully ignore-- is that when we're talking about high elves, we're not talking about the ones that renamed themselves "blood elves".

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I am glad you admit that Alleria arrived at her Void Elf status through different, unrelated means, as many pro High Elfers who seek the aesthetics have sought to portray Alleria as the template upon which they wish other Void Elves would follow, i.e. a toggle between a Void Elf form and an apparently normal Blood/High Elf form. This admits that Alleria's unique capabilities in this regard are a consequence of her unique transformation and that it cannot be used as a template for future Void Elves.

Those two aren't mutually exclusive, y'know? You're the one that says void elves can 'convert' other elves into void elves, so I'd assume they found a way to (relatively) safely convert other elves, instead of having they undergo the exact same chaotic process Umbric's original group went through. A more controlled process could be used to diminish the physical effects of the conversion.

Leaving that aside, Alleria cannot be so neatly divorced from the rest of the Void Elves as Teron Gorefiend can be divorced from modern Death Knights. While there is a parallel in that Gorefiend type Death Knights are entirely separate from Scourge Death Knights, there similarities end. Gorefiend never had any interaction with the Death Knights of the Scourge after all, Alleria is the Void Elf racial leader and mentor.

She can, actually. Because she's not the cause for the creation of the void elves. She may be more linked to the void elves than Teron is to the death knights, but still she was not the one who made the blood elves into void elves or anything.

It is appropriate to regard the Void Elf storyline as having it's genesis with Alleria. In fact the polygon interview with Moorgard on Allied races, the one that affirmed that Void Elves can convert other Elves, stated that as a fact 'With Alleria Windrunner’s story being an internal success on Argus, the team saw it as the opportunity for a new twist on elves'.

This paragraph implies that your quote from Moorgard is what implies that void elves can convert others. If that's your intention, I'm sorry to say that, no, that quote doesn't mean that.

As such, there was Void Elf participation in Legion even if it was a singular Void Elf, the first Void Elf.

Sorry, man. But there wasn't. Alleria doesn't count. She wouldn't even consider herself a 'void elf' until after she rescued Umbric and his group.

[Aldo Hawk]

snip

This is a big load of bullshit.

Or you don't understand what's being discussed or you deliberately put context apart. Seriously, you are not discovering to anyone that Blood elves are High elves.

Is not my problem that certain people have such fragile egos that they think their Blood elves will loose their 'snowflakery' so they feel threatened by it.

When you all damn know that High elves are Alliance, you goddamn know it. And that's what's being requested, for an Alliance member to become playable.

[FlubberPuddy]

The real reason of course is that Blizzard gives Alliance High Elf npcs unique blue eyed skins when creating an Alliance High Elf npc and doesn't seem to be too bothered about popping in the odd golden eyed one, particularly as in game only Blood Elf Paladins have those eyes consistently and Alliance High Elf npcs tend to be Mages or Hunters.

We can see from Hearthstone that in their newest expansion since Blood Elves getting Golden Eyes, various Blood Elf NPCs/characters have been updated to Golden Eyes. Just Blood Elves, not any of the High Elves.





As you can see, these are neither priests nor paladins. It's the Dalaran flightmaster as well as some random Blood Elf Ranger.

Hearthstone follows the broad strokes of WoW lore, while it may implement its own neat things like Vereesa with Thoridal and a Gnome Paladin. It still keeps consistent
more often than not.

Clearly they had to go-ahead here to give those characters Golden Eyes, as the other things they implemented. Meaning you're partly right that it's due to Blizzard not being bothered to update certain characters, but it's interesting to note again that even here in Hearthstone it is only the Blood Elves who are manifesting those Golden Eyes.

So across all Warcraft-related media, my point still stands: We have yet to see a High Elf manifest these Golden Eyes. Until there is an example, then my presumption is correct - High Elves won't be getting Golden Eyes because they're not the same as Blood Elves.

But to presume that Alliance High Elves cannot have golden eyes is not headcanon.

I know it's not headcanon thanks! Jk you probably meant to write "can have golden eyes is not headcanon".

As for 'leaving out the arcane' part when discussing the Sunwell, the fact it is mentioned in online sources and chronicles is enough. If someone says the water was cold, does the water stop being wet because they neglected to mention that quality? The Sunwell does have an Arcane component within it, and we shall see what Blizzard does with that fact should they ever offer an advanced eye colour customization to all races, something Ion was pretty open about that they were considering as one of the easier customization choices to offer.

You are one such that likes to use developer statements as a form of reiteration of past comments, therefore I'm just doing the same. Developer commentary has only ever spoken about the Sunwell being Light-based and its importance to the Blood Elves. If the importance of the arcane bit of the Sunwell can't even be mentioned then it must not have a big part to play, just as others tout how 4 NPCs of High Elves isn't representation of much importance at all, or how others tout "devs continually state that High Elves cannot work".

Well then, the developers also continually state the Light of the Sunwell when discussing it, even Liadrin comments on its Light based nature as recently as the end of Legion (I think in Nightborne recruitment scenario). That must mean the arcane portion isn't important if it can't get a mention, just as how High Elf representation isn't brought up or "shown enough" or "just being there doesn't equal importance" to some peeps arguments.

Arcane might be in the Sunwell, but we have yet to see any proof of 1) its importance and 2) how much arcane is in the Sunwell. We see Fel cleansed by the Light, we have not seen Arcane cleanse Fel nor Light. No developer nor in-game commentary supports this.

Mention of eye color customization doesn't mean much until we see how it's implemented. Do you fore Night Elves getting extra eye colors aside from the Gold and Silver? What about races with only one eye color like Draenei? We have to see what Blizzard implements in it before commenting with presumptions.

[Aldo Hawk]

snip

Can you please stop placing bait?

You have ignored so much context, so much information and faulted to the respect of others with that much dishonesty that at this point this is just low quality bait.

At the end of the day you can only resort to mental gymnastics and appeal to authority. Oh, and for some reason, repeating like a broken record that Blood elves are High elves and implying that others are dismissing it.


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Also, for people out of the fence...

Of course what's being said when Void elves are Blood elves is not that they are similar in everything. Don't account this individual for it's dishonesty, he does it a lot.

What's being said is that they come from Blood elves, there is not even a trace about them of their origins being High elven (the name of the group not the name of the race). You know, those who were with the Alliance all this time. Their only High elven traits are their body shape and their past. It doesn't even have the basics and it's a completely different thing.

Just revise the Ren'dorei lore (it's a short read), it's there for everyone to read and compare.

[Obelisk Kai]

Those two aren't mutually exclusive, y'know? You're the one that says void elves can 'convert' other elves into void elves, so I'd assume they found a way to (relatively) safely convert other elves, instead of having they undergo the exact same chaotic process Umbric's original group went through. A more controlled process could be used to diminish the physical effects of the conversion.

Given Elves have been converted since the initial scenario and there has been no sign any has come out less 'voidy', it looks safe to assume the physical consequences are the price to pay for wielding the power. And the process is probably as safe as can be, given that the Void Elf state is the goal. Initially the end result was an ethereal like being and the Void Elf the result of stopping that process prematurely.

She can, actually. Because she's not the cause for the creation of the void elves. She may be more linked to the void elves than Teron is to the death knights, but still she was not the one who made the blood elves into void elves or anything.

Her interference in the ritual directly led to the creation of the Void Elves, as otherwise they would have been turned into Ethereals.

This paragraph implies that your quote from Moorgard is what implies that void elves can convert others. If that's your intention, I'm sorry to say that, no, that quote doesn't mean that.

No, the quote is from the same article. The implication of THIS particular quote is that the developers viewed Alleria's arc in 7.3 as the genesis of the Void Elf storyline.

Sorry, man. But there wasn't. Alleria doesn't count. She wouldn't even consider herself a 'void elf' until after she rescued Umbric and his group.

Alleria absolutely counts, as she is a Void Elf now she was a Void Elf from the moment of her first transformation. The same transformation ability recorded in wow data files as 'Void Elf transformation'.

[Obelisk Kai]

snip.

Your presumption is fundamentally flawed.

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are biologically identical which every aspect of their story communicates to us.

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are both addicted to magic.

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves both feed on the Sunwell to sate their addiction, as proven by In the Shadow of the Sun.

The Sunwell is an Arcane/Holy source of energy.

Blood Elven golden eyes are a manifestation of that same holy energy from the Sunwell.

Therefore, Alliance High Elves should also be able to manifest golden eyes.

In this case, you are trying to prove a negative using this hearthstone art. That because some Blood Elves have golden eyes in the art, and because the Alliance High Elves have blue eyes, then Alliance High Elves cannot have golden eyes despite the fact that objectively they should be able to.

I checked the hearthstone wiki which conveniently lists the high elf cards on a single page

https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/High_elf_art

There are three cards. Then out of curiosity I checked the Blood Elf page.

https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Blood_elf_art

There are somewhat more than three. At least they have the proportion right.

All these cards come from the latest expansion, Rise of Shadows. And then I checked the expansion theme, a raid on Dalaran. So once again, Alliance High Elves (and Veressa) only show up in the context of Dalaran

I have to admit the more I dig the more I agree with you that hearthstone is certainly indicative of things in the actual canon, but the lack of golden eyes on Alliance High Elves is not one of them. For I maintain that Alliance High Elves have as much potential to manifest golden eyes as Blood Elves do, but three Alliance High Elves...one of whom is a Mage, one of whom is casting Arcane shot and one of whom is a civilian is not the evidence that disproves that they cannot.

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I know it's not headcanon thanks! Jk you probably meant to write "can have golden eyes is not headcanon".

That was indeed a typo.

You are one such that likes to use developer statements as a form of reiteration of past comments, therefore I'm just doing the same. Developer commentary has only ever spoken about the Sunwell being Light-based and its importance to the Blood Elves. If the importance of the arcane bit of the Sunwell can't even be mentioned then it must not have a big part to play, just as others tout how 4 NPCs of High Elves isn't representation of much importance at all, or how others tout "devs continually state that High Elves cannot work".

Well then, the developers also continually state the Light of the Sunwell when discussing it, even Liadrin comments on its Light based nature as recently as the end of Legion (I think in Nightborne recruitment scenario). That must mean the arcane portion isn't important if it can't get a mention, just as how High Elf representation isn't brought up or "shown enough" or "just being there doesn't equal importance" to some peeps arguments.

Arcane might be in the Sunwell, but we have yet to see any proof of 1) its importance and 2) how much arcane is in the Sunwell. We see Fel cleansed by the Light, we have not seen Arcane cleanse Fel nor Light. No developer nor in-game commentary supports this.

Mention of eye color customization doesn't mean much until we see how it's implemented. Do you fore Night Elves getting extra eye colors aside from the Gold and Silver? What about races with only one eye color like Draenei? We have to see what Blizzard implements in it before commenting with presumptions.

Yet here, you are attempting to use absence of comment as proof. The developers who have said the Sunwell is light based, are they wrong? And I believe they have made those comments in the context of explaining why Blood Elves (and likely all uncorrupted thalassians) can manifest golden eyes. It strikes me that they they weren't overcomplicating their answers. They said the Sunwell is light based, which is true, and this has resulted in some Blood Elves getting golden eyes, which is also true.

Yet chronicles states the Sunwell is Arcane and Holy, something which is common sense as the heart of a Naaru was added to the corrupted arcane energy of the pool to purify it.

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Can you please stop placing bait?

You have ignored so much context, so much information and faulted to the respect of others with that much dishonesty that at this point this is just low quality bait.

At the end of the day you can only resort to mental gymnastics and appeal to authority. Oh, and for some reason, repeating like a broken record that Blood elves are High elves and implying that others are dismissing it..

The only information that matters is that Blood Elves are High Elves, that High Elves are playable, that faction diversity is a prized asset for Blizzard and that Void Elves are a variant for the Alliance. So yes, at 'the end of the day' that is all I can resort to but it's also all I have ever needed. As your community has nothing equivalent, not lore, not developer commentary, nothing...all that can be done is to attack the ample evidence available to the other side.

'Bait' in other words are the unassailable facts, that only Blizzard themselves can alter, and on which they have showed no inclination of accommodating you.

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I honestly couldn't care less if the Alliance get High Elves anymore, I've gotten past it and honestly the only reason I quoted him was because quite literally the Void elves came from a roster of Blood elves NOT the current High elf roster.

The Polygon interview essentially confirmed that the Void Elves can convert other Elves as Moorgard was asked point blank where Void Elf numbers are coming from, which I believe was one of the points made as to why Void Elves apparently didn't make sense.

This means that while the initial batch of Void Elves were indeed Blood Elves, there is absolutely no reason why Alliance High Elves are also not able to undergo the process and become Void Elves.

Indeed, several of the elves in Tel'rogus learning the powers of the Void are 'High Elven Wayfarers' and as such, Alliance High Elf is a viable origin for any Void Elf players who wishes to view it that way.

[Black Goat]

The only information that matters is that Blood Elves are High Elves, that High Elves are playable, that faction diversity is a prized asset for Blizzard and that Void Elves are a variant for the Alliance. So yes, at 'the end of the day' that is all I can resort to but it's also all I have ever needed. As your community has nothing equivalent, not lore, not developer commentary, nothing...all that can be done is to attack the ample evidence available to the other side.

Well said. For someone to call your opinion "bait" says quite a bit about their ability to rationalize the truth. I'm not sure how much simpler it could be said.

Besides, I think you'd have to be downright crazy to think there's going to be another Elven race coming. I mean, c'mon.

[NoiseTank13]

High Elves are Blood Elves. The fact they adopted a new name and a few select stragglers decided not to integrate with them doesn't change that fact.

[Ielenia]

Given Elves have been converted since the initial scenario and there has been no sign any has come out less 'voidy', it looks safe to assume the physical consequences are the price to pay for wielding the power. And the process is probably as safe as can be, given that the Void Elf state is the goal. Initially the end result was an ethereal like being and the Void Elf the result of stopping that process prematurely.

I'd actually instead assume that no safe process has been found yet, considering the only in-game mention of a process to convert more elves into void elves is still being researched, and that the current void elves are simply part of Umbric's original group.

Her interference in the ritual directly led to the creation of the Void Elves, as otherwise they would have been turned into Ethereals.

The point is that she did not create the void elves. She stopped the Ethereal ritual, yes, but her intention was not to make them into void elves. Not to mention others could have done the same. For example, Aethas or Khad'gar could do something similar, provided they had access to Umbric's research notes, which we did, considering those were the clues that led us to Umbric's group.

No, the quote is from the same article. The implication of THIS particular quote is that the developers viewed Alleria's arc in 7.3 as the genesis of the Void Elf storyline.

Then wouldn't Teron's story be the genesis of the death knight storyline, then? He was the first.

Alleria absolutely counts, as she is a Void Elf now she was a Void Elf from the moment of her first transformation. The same transformation ability recorded in wow data files as 'Void Elf transformation'.

It doesn't count because Alleria's lore is not void elf lore. Void elves did not exist until after the Legion was defeated. It's not like Alleria returned to Azeroth, to Silvermoon, and said: "Behold! I bring you all, my elves, the powers of the void! Power without limits at your command! Serve me, and I shall bestow this gift upon you!" or anything of the sort.

Her origins are completely separate and unrelated to the void elves' origins.

[Obelisk Kai]

Well said. For someone to call your opinion "bait" says quite a bit about their ability to rationalize the truth. I'm not sure how much simpler it could be said.

Besides, I think you'd have to be downright crazy to think there's going to be another Elven race coming. I mean, c'mon.

It's a curious term, bait, but I believe it goes hand in hand with a continuous attempt on this matter to delegitimize all evidence that goes against what they wish.

It ranges from continually questioning the smaller aspects, such as disputing the polygon interview with Moorgard confirming Void Elves can recruit other Elves to flat out attacking Ion Hazzikostas for uttering the words that now define this debate, that Blood Elves are High Elves.

As for being downright crazy to think there is another Elven race incoming, that is not crazy nor is it at issue, although there could be concerns at another Elven race simply due to the sheer number of Elves then on offer. The objection to Alliance High Elves is not because they would be another race of Elves but because they would be the same race of Elves as an already existing option, except available to the other side.

I would have no problem with another race of Alliance Elves so long as they weren't high elves. Some for example have suggested Half Elves for the Alliance, something very similar to a Blood/High Elf in terms of lore and aesthetic but with crucial differences that would not raise any objections from my side of the debate.

[Aldo Hawk]

The only information that matters is that Blood Elves are High Elves, that High Elves are playable, that faction diversity is a prized asset for Blizzard and that Void Elves are a variant for the Alliance. So yes, at 'the end of the day' that is all I can resort to but it's also all I have ever needed. As your community has nothing equivalent, not lore, not developer commentary, nothing...all that can be done is to attack the ample evidence available to the other side.

You still fail to acknowledge that High elves are not playable. That denotes a great amount of cynical behavior from your part. Sorry, repeating that will not make it true.

Also your mention of 'faction diversity' has been demonstrably flawed since all you have held onto for that is vague dev commentary and a haggard conspiration about neutral races not being released since MoP.

You also fail to acknowledge the many times High elves were presented through lore and game as Alliance members. Even trying to find a way to imply they are not even Alliance... When someone deny reality in front of his nose there's something that is very wrong.

And also taking into account that the developer commentary you have presented came as decontextualized or flawed one cannot take it seriously.

'Bait' in other words are the unassailable facts, that only Blizzard themselves can alter, and on which they have showed no inclination of accommodating you.

Bait is placing dishonest and not-leading-to-anywhere comments to try to trigger another cyclical discussion about unimportant small pieces.

[Black Goat]

It's a curious term, bait, but I believe it goes hand in hand with a continuous attempt on this matter to delegitimize all evidence that goes against what they wish.

It ranges from continually questioning the smaller aspects, such as disputing the polygon interview with Moorgard confirming Void Elves can recruit other Elves to flat out attacking Ion Hazzikostas for uttering the words that now define this debate, that Blood Elves are High Elves.

As for being downright crazy to think there is another Elven race incoming, that is not crazy nor is it at issue, although there could be concerns at another Elven race simply due to the sheer number of Elves then on offer. The objection to Alliance High Elves is not because they would be another race of Elves but because they would be the same race of Elves as an already existing option, except available to the other side.

I would have no problem with another race of Alliance Elves so long as they weren't high elves. Some for example have suggested Half Elves for the Alliance, something very similar to a Blood/High Elf in terms of lore and aesthetic but with crucial differences that would not raise any objections from my side of the debate.

Well, I think you're crazy if you think Blizzard will implement another race of Elves. We're over-saturated with them as is.

I'm well aware what the objection and issue at hand is regarding High Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Well said. For someone to call your opinion "bait" says quite a bit about their ability to rationalize the truth. I'm not sure how much simpler it could be said.

Besides, I think you'd have to be downright crazy to think there's going to be another Elven race coming. I mean, c'mon.

Do you have something to add except saying i am unable to rationalize truth or being downright crazy?

Of course not