The Walmart Subreddit Has Been Flooded With Pro-Union Memes

[Kaleredar]

No, I made a claim that having a massive strike just lead to them realizing that they could do away with the jobs entirely and no one would care. It didn't make better conditions or pay, it just disappeared them to someone else's backyard.

They would have vanished whether their had been strikes or not.

[Vanyali]

They would have vanished whether their had been strikes or not.

So the striking was pointless. Which is exactly my point. Whether or not they needed them was irrelevant, as said jobs weren't staying anyway, and it just pushed companies to drop the industry in-country entirely at a quicker pace. Neat.

[kasuke06]

Person wants to choke the life out of a business, business excises cancer before it can take root.

Unions had a place back when people were literally being worked to death, or severe dismemberment before they could even have a midlife crisis at 20. Now? Unions choke cities with pensions they can't afford which constantly rise higher, shackle our institutions of learning with with so much red tape they can't remove a teacher for less than raping or beating a student insensate on camera, and literally drive business out of the country.

They were a force for good, and when well maintained still can be, but that's about as rare as a functional communist country.

[Ahovv]

Strikes didn't cause the industry to disappear, what an incredibly historically ignorant thing to say. Technology and automation is, and always will be, the biggest industrial job killer.

None of this was even the point of why I responded to you, you're just changing the subject. You made a dumb claim about people not being able to afford to strike when that's always been the case. Shit, 30% of part-timers at walmart are on some kind of public assistance. Do you think workers had a better time of it over a century ago?

Unions have been fine in the past and will be in the super short-term, but if they oppose automation then I'm opposed to them. They need to be willing to let those jobs go and instead support UBI.

[Kaleredar]

So the striking was pointless. Which is exactly my point. Whether or not they needed them was irrelevant, as said jobs weren't staying anyway, and it just pushed companies to drop the industry in-country entirely at a quicker pace. Neat.

Suffering the oppression of businesses for fear that standing up for your rights will get your job vindictively pulled is precisely why Unions need to exist. Especially if they can lobby for legislation that punishes businesses for outsourcing.

You can't expect corporations to act in any way other than what will net them the most profit. So worker's efforts are best directed in ensuring that the way that a corporation will make the most profit is by acting in a way that benefits the workers, and that they will stand to lose revenue by acting in any other way.

As for automation, transitioning and training workers for jobs that require human capital should be in order.

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Person wants to choke the life out of a business, business excises cancer before it can take root.

I think Walmart can eat a pay raise or two for their employees without the whole company going belly up. I have faith in the American consumer's need for cheap jeans and crocs.

[Vanyali]

Suffering the oppression of businesses for fear that standing up for your rights will get your job vindictively pulled is precisely why Unions need to exist. Especially if they can lobby for legislation that punishes businesses for outsourcing.

You can't expect corporations to act in any way other than what will net them the most profit. So worker's efforts are best directed in ensuring that the way that a corporation will make the most profit is by acting in a way that benefits the workers, and that they will stand to lose revenue by acting in any other way.

As for automation, transitioning and training workers for jobs that require human capital should be in order.

It isn't a fear of standing up.

It's a knowledge that they're already looking for a way to replace you, and if you all do it at once they'll just figure out how to replace you quicker.
It's a knowledge that there's not another employer, and even if you quit on good terms you're blackballed for walmart or sam's club... which may be the only employer in town.
It's knowledge that you need to eat, and your bank account is $0.05 and payday is two days away.
It's being fed the idea in school and at work that a union will take your precarious day-to-day financial situation and take days away for dues.
It's being fed the idea that you are worthless, and the company doesn't give a shit about you (as stated by my immediate manager daily).
It's being fed the idea that you won't find work because you'll have "a gap" and that's bad on a resume... and you don't have a resume anyway, because you were lucky to get this job and no one else will hire you.


There's a lot more in play than being afraid of outsourcing. Most of it is information you have no way of countering because the computer at work is scary and new, and you can't afford one at home so have no idea how to use it, or where to go on the internet to learn things.

[downnola]

Unions have been fine in the past and will be in the super short-term, but if they oppose automation then I'm opposed to them. They need to be willing to let those jobs go and instead support UBI.

Unions have no shot at stopping automation, and manufacturing jobs aren't the only part of the economy that is threatened by it. UBI might be necessary, but I don't think governments are going to move fast enough to offset the damage that automation is going to cause. UBI is really only a bandaid on the problem, it's going to take a combination of policy to get a handle on it.

[jeezusisacasual]

Unions have no shot at stopping automation, and manufacturing jobs aren't the only part of the economy that is threatened by it. UBI might be necessary, but I don't think governments are going to move fast enough to offset the damage that automation is going to cause. UBI is really only a bandaid on the problem, it's going to take a combination of policy to get a handle on it.

This so much. While a UBI will be helpful but it will be a band-aid on a gunshot wound once it starts getting going. I also think that the way our nations government works it is far to slow to address it once we are behind the 8ball and needs to be proactive but given the disconnect between congress and the people they represent i highly doubt that it would take anything less then massive riots, we can not even get healthcare passed.

[Ahovv]

This so much. While a UBI will be helpful but it will be a band-aid on a gunshot wound once it starts getting going. I also think that the way our nations government works it is far to slow to address it once we are behind the 8ball and needs to be proactive but given the disconnect between congress and the people they represent i highly doubt that it would take anything less then massive riots, we can not even get healthcare passed.

Both of your posts did not offer an actual solution. If you believe UBI is insufficient, tell me what is sufficient, given that automation is inevitable and only going to get stronger.

[Kaleredar]

It isn't a fear of standing up.

It's a knowledge that they're already looking for a way to replace you, and if you all do it at once they'll just figure out how to replace you quicker.
It's a knowledge that there's not another employer, and even if you quit on good terms you're blackballed for walmart or sam's club... which may be the only employer in town.
It's knowledge that you need to eat, and your bank account is $0.05 and payday is two days away.
It's being fed the idea in school and at work that a union will take your precarious day-to-day financial situation and take days away for dues.
It's being fed the idea that you are worthless, and the company doesn't give a shit about you (as stated by my immediate manager daily).
It's being fed the idea that you won't find work because you'll have "a gap" and that's bad on a resume... and you don't have a resume anyway, because you were lucky to get this job and no one else will hire you.

...so wistfully keeping your mouth shut and praying that your job doesn't get yanked is the only solution, then?

That's not a very American sentiment.

There's a lot more in play than being afraid of outsourcing. Most of it is information you have no way of countering because the computer at work is scary and new, and you can't afford one at home so have no idea how to use it, or where to go on the internet to learn things.

And that's what Unions can work to train people for new jobs, though I'd honestly like to see educational institutions be more on top of this as well. Because Walmart sure as shit isn't going to.

[Vanyali]

...so wistfully keeping your mouth shut and praying that your job doesn't get yanked is the only solution, then?

That's not a very American sentiment.

You could also attempt to do it politically. Which.. we have politicians working for, that are boo'd down by the very people said policy would help the most. Because of the list above, ironically enough.

[Rysthruun]

I normally agree with private based unions but this is stupid. If you work at Walmart, you can be replaced, day 1, hour 1, by anyone. It literally takes negative skills to work at walmarts. I don't mean that to say the people who work their have no skills, they have many, its the only thing that keeps that place functioning semi-normally. However, if you have ever worked for walmarts, you know, it is the worst managed company in the country from top to bottom. Unionizing wouldn't change anything, people would just get cycled out.

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...so wistfully keeping your mouth shut and praying that your job doesn't get yanked is the only solution, then?

That's not a very American sentiment.



And that's what Unions can work to train people for new jobs, though I'd honestly like to see educational institutions be more on top of this as well. Because Walmart sure as shit isn't going to.

Yes

/10char

source: I've worked there and have seen things no one should see lol

[jeezusisacasual]

Both of your posts did not offer an actual solution. If you believe UBI is insufficient, tell me what is sufficient, given that automation is inevitable and only going to get stronger.

The reason being is that without proper controls like housing and utilities will eat the majority of the UBI in of itself. I think it would be helpful yes but in the majority of the nation we have a single power company carving up sections to not compete with each other to further drive up prices. In a free market with no governmental limitations ( good luck keeping it that way once the opposite party takes power mind you ) on pricing you are only asking for the ownership class to increase costs simply because they can. I agree with Yang in that it is needed but you would need these things to go with it. Rent/housing ownership cost controls.

The actual regulation towards utility costs which like i mentioned earlier would be hard. I agree with Yang in the sense that competing marketplace groups like resturants would not see large spikes in cost or general goods but it would stop at that point. Areas of the economy that do not have another competitor would be spiked.

I think indexing the min. wage to state wide inflationary measures (Alabama would be different to California for example ) along with a UBI would be a damn good start. I also think that a updated healthcare system akin to the rest of the western world would help defer some costs also. I think that forcing companies to compete in those areas or lose tax credits would incentivize them to actually compete and lower costs( Speaking of utility companies here ). You can bring back higher subsidies toward community colleges and trade schools to lower the price of admission to larger schools to again force compete. A rent control parameter set up on the state level to stymie local landlords to just increase rents by X amount because they know that Y person has a UBI. I have spent the evening enjoying some drinks so i am sorry if i wrote the same thing a few times.

[Twdft]

Person wants to choke the life out of a business, business excises cancer before it can take root.

Businesses in Germany are not really that choked out of life and we have unions everywhere. And if a union negotiates a new wage agreement then all workers at the same company get the pay rise even if they are not in the union. Look at the economic power of Germany and see that just having unions is not the end of capitalism. That's just what they want you to think so they can squeeze you harder.

[ohtlmtlm]

Outsourcing to foreign countries shouldn't be the big concern; automation is going to replace virtually everything. You don't need a human cashier; this is already proven with self-checkouts, now imagine a fully automated checkout instead.

Stocking shelves? Perfect for automation. The only human job needed daily at Wal-mart is customer service, until AI becomes competent enough.

Of course, unions will be fighting against automation, fighting against progress because it threatens their current job. Instead of fighting for shitty jobs like working at Wal-mart, we should be pushing for automation and better policies like UBI which synergize with the AI utopia.

I cant wait for the Terminator-inspired automated store security robots to stop people from stealing from stores with no employees.

[Spectral]

That is the point I was trying to make, thank you. He got held up on the idea that the only way to get rid of having to pay people in America is outsourcing.

That being said, self checkout is real dumb because people steal like no one's business unless you have someone watching them like a hawk. Then they try to stab you and still steal.

My impression is that the main thing that prevents theft is the culture of the local populace. Ultimately, it's pretty difficult to prevent individuals that steal things sporadically from doing so. From a little bit of reading, it does look like Wal-Mart's problems have ramped up a bit. I can't speak to the accuracy of this report, but if you take it at face value:

Flickinger and other analysts say the increase in theft may be tied to Wal-Mart's highly publicized decision last year to no longer prosecute minor cases of shoplifting in order to focus on organized shoplifting rings. Former employees also say staffing levels, including security personnel, have been reduced, making it easier for theft to occur. And a union-backed group critical of the retailer's personnel policies contends general worker discontent is playing a role.

Personally, I'm a lot more inclined towards zero tolerance policies when it comes to shoplifting, but apparently individual, small-scale shoplifting isn't really worth their time to go over because of the risk of lawsuits:

Wal-Mart also may have been spooked by worries about lawsuits from wrongful death, unlawful imprisonment and other legal issues related to aggressively chasing down shoplifters. In March, Wal-Mart agreed to pay $750,000 to the family of a suspected shoplifter who suffocated to death as loss prevention workers held him down in a parking lot outside a store in Atascocita, Texas. The shoplifter died in August 2005 in a parking lot, according to published reports.

Probably a decent reminder that making something illegal is tantamount to saying, "sometimes we'll wind up killing someone over this".

[downnola]

I think indexing the min. wage to state wide inflationary measures (Alabama would be different to California for example ) along with a UBI would be a damn good start. I also think that a updated healthcare system akin to the rest of the western world would help defer some costs also. I think that forcing companies to compete in those areas or lose tax credits would incentivize them to actually compete and lower costs( Speaking of utility companies here ). You can bring back higher subsidies toward community colleges and trade schools to lower the price of admission to larger schools to again force compete. A rent control parameter set up on the state level to stymie local landlords to just increase rents by X amount because they know that Y person has a UBI. I have spent the evening enjoying some drinks so i am sorry if i wrote the same thing a few times.

This is a big one: UBI combined with greater education and healthcare access is key. I don't think we'll get there quick enough, though. The big "S" word is keeping the U.S. government from acting in a meaningful way.

[Spectral]

Businesses in Germany are not really that choked out of life and we have unions everywhere. And if a union negotiates a new wage agreement then all workers at the same company get the pay rise even if they are not in the union. Look at the economic power of Germany and see that just having unions is not the end of capitalism. That's just what they want you to think so they can squeeze you harder.

Per the OECD data, there's a large gap between Germany and the United States in disposable income and household wealth. I wouldn't say that Germany's "choked out" by any means, but it's actually quite a lot poorer than the United States. If the US is looking around the world for economic strategies to become wealthier, it probably doesn't make much sense to look to Germany for advice.

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I think Walmart can eat a pay raise or two for their employees without the whole company going belly up. I have faith in the American consumer's need for cheap jeans and crocs.

In 2018, Wal-Mart's net profit margin fell to 1.31%. That might not be representative since it was 1.99% the previous year and 2.83% the year before that; I don't know enough about their business to speak to whether that's a trend or just statistical noise. But either way, even taking that higher figure, they're certainly already working on thin margins.

Just how thin should their margins be? How should their management respond to their board regarding wage increases if the board notes the already low margins? Maybe they can argue that higher wages will improve the quality of the shopping experience and allow them to comfortably charge more than they currently do, but that would represent a large change in business strategy rather than just a minor tweak. Just saying, "people will still buy jeans" isn't going to be a very satisfying answer for people who are legally obligated to look out for the fiscal interests of their investors.

[Ghostpanther]

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In 2018, Wal-Mart's net profit margin fell to 1.31%. That might not be representative since it was 1.99% the previous year and 2.83% the year before that; I don't know enough about their business to speak to whether that's a trend or just statistical noise. But either way, even taking that higher figure, they're certainly already working on thin margins.

Just how thin should their margins be? How should their management respond to their board regarding wage increases if the board notes the already low margins? Maybe they can argue that higher wages will improve the quality of the shopping experience and allow them to comfortably charge more than they currently do, but that would represent a large change in business strategy rather than just a minor tweak. Just saying, "people will still buy jeans" isn't going to be a very satisfying answer for people who are legally obligated to look out for the fiscal interests of their investors.

Good point. I shop at Walmart for the simple fact that overall, they are cheaper than other places. Saves me money. Once that ceases to be the case, I will have no reason to shop there and will go to other places.

[downnola]

In 2018, Wal-Mart's net profit margin fell to 1.31%. That might not be representative since it was 1.99% the previous year and 2.83% the year before that; I don't know enough about their business to speak to whether that's a trend or just statistical noise. But either way, even taking that higher figure, they're certainly already working on thin margins.

Just how thin should their margins be? How should their management respond to their board regarding wage increases if the board notes the already low margins? Maybe they can argue that higher wages will improve the quality of the shopping experience and allow them to comfortably charge more than they currently do, but that would represent a large change in business strategy rather than just a minor tweak. Just saying, "people will still buy jeans" isn't going to be a very satisfying answer for people who are legally obligated to look out for the fiscal interests of their investors.

How much of their margin is wasted on training new hires due to their notoriously poor retention rate? I'll give them credit for trying to address that with wage hikes over the past few years, but there is still a lot of room for improvement.