9.0 General Discussion

[Shadochi]

Here is a question.

What if we got a world revamp and NO NEW ZONES. Instead we'd get phased versions of zones in the Shadowlands (which look similar but with different lightning, maybe a few doodads replaced etc.) like with the visions. Would people go crazy? Would commonly banned posters flock to tell us that the new expansion has NO CONTENT? Heck they could even touch up on specific old dungeons and upgrade them to max level and only have new raids instead (though I'd love AQ remastered so much).

That would be a lazy way of doing it. One of the reasons people enjoy new zones in expansions is because of the diverse themes. If it was like you suggested it would be all the theme of Black Empire (which would overshadow the regular zone themes).

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Not enough Dark Ranger. 3/10, don't recommned.

They initially wanted to go with "The Dark Tinkermancersworn, a undead Mechdragon which rides ontop of a Mech into battle while also spitting out Black Arrows causing undead Mechdragon-babies to appear from dead mobs."

But they didnt go with it since that would have made the class unique.

[ercarp]

Here is a question.

What if we got a world revamp and NO NEW ZONES. Instead we'd get phased versions of zones in the Shadowlands (which look similar but with different lightning, maybe a few doodads replaced etc.) like with the visions. Would people go crazy? Would commonly banned posters flock to tell us that the new expansion has NO CONTENT? Heck they could even touch up on specific old dungeons and upgrade them to max level and only have new raids instead (though I'd love AQ remastered so much).

If the zones itself were brought up to a higher quality (e.g. Arathi and Darkshore Warfronts) and had some kind of shadowy assets implemented, I wouldn't mind. Enough to distinguish them from their non-phased versions. I can already kind of see it, ghosts of old citizens/villagers wandering around with weird shadowy creatures lurking around every corner while we run errands for the ghost people. Could be cool and it has a lot of potential for lore exposition.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

That would be a lazy way of doing it. One of the reasons people enjoy new zones in expansions is because of the diverse themes. If it was like you suggested it would be all the theme of Black Empire (which would overshadow the regular zone themes).

I sometimes have bad humor.

But who cares, I am a fat blue penguin.

I think if we get a world revamp it will truly be a world revamp, but I potentially see them only doing one continent first. Most likely Kalimdor then first.

[Nyel]

Realm of Shadows
- The expansion is a "soft reboot"of series, similar to Cataclysm.
- Levels squished to 60. New level is 70.
- The whole of Azeroth is witness the influence of the Old Gods and Yogg-Saron "leads the attack."
- The spirit of Xal'atath is linked with Sylvanas. This is the most important point.
- The Old Gods corrupt all aspects of dragon except Wrathion who leads us to the Dragon Isles where we witness the beginning of the end. We soon realize not everyone is can be saved.
- Bolvar choosing new Death Knights and seeking help from his Necromancers against the Old God. Kel'Thuzad leads the Necromancers to attack.
- Taelia finds truth about her father. She travels to Icecrown to confirm her suspicions and is captured. We must negotiate with Lich King to release her.
- Vol'jin's fate is well known.
- The first raid is called "Icecronw Attack" to save Taelia. Angry Icecrown version corrupted and revamped.
- Naxxramas turned like a small five-person dungeon with four wings.
- Sylvanas opens the door to the shadows. Uses the soul of Helya to seek control over death.
- Ashara betrayes Sylvana and becames a friend of the Horde and Alliance. To this end, Naga was created as an ally.
- Death is the main goal of unification. The Void Lord don't not not play an important role in this expansion.
-Myic + made important changes, such as deleting some affixes. Designed "Timewalking Mythic+").
- Paid inventory will be returned to this add-on. Raid sets are returned.
- The PvP supplier is back. No tokens only gold.
- Much of the expansion story involves visiting previous timelines with Chromie and finds explanations about Sylvana, Death and the Old God Yogg-Saron. One such situation refers to the Fall of Lordaeron ("Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne").

This sounds awful.

[Ophenia]

They only reason we were able to get so much CGI content for BfA is because they limited the character cast to use for it (which was still larger/of better quality than in most previous cinematics).

Sure, but they already have a Tauren skeleton (BfA opening cinematic), I don't believe it would be that much of a hassle to gear it a bit and make him appear somewhere in the background.

We've had a lot of cinematics in BfA but so far, we've had
- Anduin, we can count Varian in Legion's
- Thrall/Saurfang
- Sylvanas + random undead (Rogues from Safe Haven and TinkTink from Reckoning)
- Zekhan + random Troll attacking Anduin in BfA's opening
- random Tauren
- Genn, but I guess they want to limit the amount of fur to be rendered , so limited to 2-seconds appearances and mostly talking
- one or two random Draenei in the background
- ??

Elves can go fuck themselves despite being the easiest race to model beyond Humans. I'm annoyed that we've nearly seen Illidan in the teaser cinematic for Legion but he never made a relevant appearance in any recent one (TBC is old), that would have been glorious
NElves/Gnomes/Goblins are relegated to the bin, if you don't know what Warcraft is about, you don't even know those races exist at all. There isn't even one randomly placed in the background or wherever.
I mean, BfA is about Faction War. But in Lordaeron's battle and in Reckoning, you only see Orcs, Forsaken, Humans, Dwarves, two Draenei, one Tauren and two Trolls. Everything else simply doesn't exist.

[Kereberus]

How would you guys feel about NPC Dungeon groups i.e. what FFXIV has?

[Rootsbum]

A «A link to the past»-kinda expansion would be pretty neat. Where you jump in and out of the death-realm on portals you unlock along the way.

Imagine finding a place nøt aviable, but upon exploring/questing you find a path

[Buliwyf the Omen]

How would you guys feel about NPC Dungeon groups i.e. what FFXIV has?

Is this exactly how horrible it sounds? You que for a dungeon and get teamed with NPCs? No thanks.

Socialism in this Game is already very low, it shouldnt get another big hit.

[ercarp]

I just realized I'm moving to a new apartment on the 1st of November so I'll probably miss the expansion announcement unless I somehow manage to watch it on my phone in the middle of everything. Sounds like a plug for Diablo: Immortal but it's not.

[Piertje1984]

What time is it there, here in holland it starts at 18:00 if im correct. So thats around dinner time, should this be the same time than you should just eat REALLY SLOWLY :P haha!

[FlemmMinis]

I have a funny feeling about blizzcon after they canceled the Overwatch launch event...

[Ophenia]

Is this exactly how horrible it sounds? You que for a dungeon and get teamed with NPCs? No thanks.

Socialism in this Game is already very low, it shouldnt get another big hit.

That should be implemented in LFR though, where social interactions already don't exist anyway. Just queue up with several named NPCs to have the "story" part and that's it

[Shadochi]

Sure, but they already have a Tauren skeleton (BfA opening cinematic), I don't believe it would be that much of a hassle to gear it a bit and make him appear somewhere in the background.

We've had a lot of cinematics in BfA but so far, we've had
- Anduin, we can count Varian in Legion's
- Thrall/Saurfang
- Sylvanas + random undead (Rogues from Safe Haven and TinkTink from Reckoning)
- Zekhan + random Troll attacking Anduin in BfA's opening
- random Tauren
- Genn, but I guess they want to limit the amount of fur to be rendered , so limited to 2-seconds appearances and mostly talking
- one or two random Draenei in the background
- ??

Elves can go fuck themselves despite being the easiest race to model beyond Humans. I'm annoyed that we've nearly seen Illidan in the teaser cinematic for Legion but he never made a relevant appearance in any recent one (TBC is old), that would have been glorious
NElves/Gnomes/Goblins are relegated to the bin, if you don't know what Warcraft is about, you don't even know those races exist at all. There isn't even one randomly placed in the background or wherever.
I mean, BfA is about Faction War. But in Lordaeron's battle and in Reckoning, you only see Orcs, Forsaken, Humans, Dwarves, two Draenei, one Tauren and two Trolls. Everything else simply doesn't exist.

Nelves made 0 sense to appear in any of the BFA CGIs tho. I agree there could've been more diversity but probably even what they did this time around was bigger than before (just the opening cinematic probably took more work than the previous ones, and then there were 3 others). They maybe just wanted to see if they first could fit making a couple CGI cinematics in a 2 year expansion and from that work on improving.

And TBH the cast diversity is greater in this cinematic than in most others (especially by unique lore characters which are harder to make since they need to have a certain accuracy to their ingame models).

I mean there is always ways to improve, but the CGI department was IMO stronger than ever in BfA.

[Ophenia]

Nelves made 0 sense to appear in any of the BFA CGIs tho

Nelves nope, but BElves probably. We know that the full cast was at Lordaeron anyway (including Alleria or Lor'themar), but they're... nowhere to be seen on the frontline.

I mean there is always ways to improve, but the CGI department was IMO stronger than ever in BfA.

Yep, not denying it.
I am just hoping they'll take more risks, be more ambitious in the next ones

[Cassidin]

Is this exactly how horrible it sounds? You que for a dungeon and get teamed with NPCs? No thanks.

Socialism in this Game is already very low, it shouldnt get another big hit.

It's not that bad actually...... It's also very helpful if you play a dps class and would have very long queues. However it serves a different purpose in FFXIV that simply isnt needed in WoW. In FFXIV the actual main story questline REQUIRES you to complete many dungeons. You simply cannot progress with questing until you have done the dungeon you have the main story quest for. For a DPS quest this means you are questing through the story and get to a point that means you cant carry on until you have queued for an hour+ for a dungeon. In wow dungeons are never "required" you can skip them and move on with the story.

it is for that reason that the NPC Trust system is actually very useful in FFXIV as you are no longer "stuck" without being able to progress. They are also a pretty good training tool as the NPCs in the main obey strategies - so its like playing with 3 others who know the strategies correctly and if you follow what they do - you are following strategies. It helps you learn.

However, npc trust dungons do tend to take longer - NPCs just dont do as much damage as many players for example. Because of this I don't think they ever become the "goto" way of running dungeons (and they are also ONLY available for main story quest dungeons - ones that as already mentioned would stop your questing).

While I would personally welcome them in WoW, I do not think they are needed in the same way they are in FFXIV. There is a genuinely good reason to have them in FFXIV. In Wow that need just doesn't exist.

Quick edit to point out that in addition to main story being linked to running dungeons - this also is the case for class/job progression. You get new abilities based on progressing through the story line. If you are presented with a dungeon as part of the main story line, not only can you not progress to the next part of the story without completing the dungeon, you will also not be able to learn new abilities until you get to the point in the story they are presented to you. Skipping dungeons that are "required" and just grinding mobs COULD get you to max level - but you would have lots of abilities missing too until you went back and did the story quest. As zones are also linked to story - you would also not have access to the whole of the map.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

It's not that bad actually...... It's also very helpful if you play a dps class and would have very long queues. However it serves a different purpose in FFXIV that simply isnt needed in WoW. In FFXIV the actual main story questline REQUIRES you to complete many dungeons. You simply cannot progress with questing until you have done the dungeon you have the main story quest for. For a DPS quest this means you are questing through the story and get to a point that means you cant carry on until you have queued for an hour+ for a dungeon. In wow dungeons are never "required" you can skip them and move on with the story.

it is for that reason that the NPC Trust system is actually very useful in FFXIV as you are no longer "stuck" without being able to progress. They are also a pretty good training tool as the NPCs in the main obey strategies - so its like playing with 3 others who know the strategies correctly and if you follow what they do - you are following strategies. It helps you learn.

However, npc trust dungons do tend to take longer - NPCs just dont do as much damage as many players for example. Because of this I don't think they ever become the "goto" way of running dungeons (and they are also ONLY available for main story quest dungeons - ones that as already mentioned would stop your questing).

While I would personally welcome them in WoW, I do not think they are needed in the same way they are in FFXIV. There is a genuinely good reason to have them in FFXIV. In Wow that need just doesn't exist.

I tried to get into FF but I couldnt because of the abyssmal early combat representation and Machinist and Gunblade being so far away but isnt FFXIV a story focused MMORPG anyway? Atleast thats what everyone seems to make a fuzz about.

[Raetary]

I have a funny feeling about blizzcon after they canceled the Overwatch launch event...

They aren't gonna cancel it at this point.
I just hope non of the protesters somehow rushes in mid announcements.

[Cassidin]

I tried to get into FF but I couldnt because of the abyssmal early combat representation and Machinist and Gunblade being so far away but isnt FFXIV a story focused MMORPG anyway? Atleast thats what everyone seems to make a fuzz about.

Yes, to level up in FFXIV you have a constant story questline that runs alll the way from level 1 to level 80 (currently). While there are side quests and stories - which are al optional. You have no real choice as to completing the main story. This means any dungeons that you encounter as part of the story are required - you are "stalled" until you complete them which is why the NPC trust system is more of a useful tool than it would be in WoW where dungons are totally optional.

[FlemmMinis]

They aren't gonna cancel it at this point.
I just hope non of the protesters somehow rushes in mid announcements.

Even if they don't rush onstage, it will be pretty hard to understand something with them chanting stuff during the presentation