Migrants easily cut through Trump's wall with a $100 saw

[Cthulhu 2020]

My refusal to accept your utterly baseless and indeterminate claims of "harm" caused by immigration is not, in any respect, a "delusion".

You made the claim. Go on. Cite your sources. Be clear about what "harm" it is you mean.

The illegal immigrants cause mental anguish to people who have been trained for decades by dogma and propaganda to hate immigrants.

In the 90's it was "THEY'RE TAKING OUR JOBS", in the 2000's it expanded to many more things like "THEY'RE GETTING HEALTHCARE FOR FREE" and "THEY'RE CAUSING A TON OF CRIME!" Both of which we all know are false, but to someone who is constantly exposed to right wing media and right wing social spheres, they've been indoctrinated with the idea that Mexicans = bad. So they twist themselves into knots trying to block them out of the country.

[Kellhound]

If you want to build a good border wall, one needs to use the Berlin Wall model, including armed guards and land mines. Anything else is just a minor hindrance.

[Elegiac]

If you want to build a good border wall, one needs to use the Berlin Wall model, including armed guards and land mines. Anything else is just a minor hindrance.

Funny how America seems to have a limitless budget when it comes to brutalizing brown people, but the moment anyone suggests spending money on domestic matters the country is suddenly dirt poor.

[Kellhound]

Funny how America seems to have a limitless budget when it comes to brutalizing brown people, but the moment anyone suggests spending money on domestic matters the country is suddenly dirt poor.

Most government spending in the US is for domestic matters, by far.

Also, brutalizing "brown people" would be calling for the use of land mines without any walls at the border. A full blown Berlin Wall style solution would cause a massive drop in the number of deaths suffered by people attempting to illegally enter the US.

[Elegiac]

Most government spending in the US is for domestic matters, by far.

Which doesn't remotely dispute what I said, but okay.

Also, brutalizing "brown people" would be calling for the use of land mines without any walls at the border. A full blown Berlin Wall style solution would cause a massive drop in the number of deaths suffered by people attempting to illegally enter the US.

The use of landmines is a form of brutality, full stop. Also, doesn't change the fact it doesn't actually, like...do anything. Illegal crossings aren't any more of an issue than can be solved with a modernized defense in depth border patrol.

But again, we're already well aware that the wall's effectiveness or lack thereof isn't the point.

[Draco-Onis]

Most government spending in the US is for domestic matters, by far.

Also, brutalizing "brown people" would be calling for the use of land mines without any walls at the border. A full blown Berlin Wall style solution would cause a massive drop in the number of deaths suffered by people attempting to illegally enter the US.

People will not stop coming regardless of the mines all you will be doing is killing women and children not to mention border patrol who may go into it by accident. This is not a Berlin wall type of situation the US would have to spend trillions of dollars for this to work instead of more effective methods for a fraction of the cost. Also how is this land mined wall going to stop air planes and boats? the majority of illegal immigration doesn't come from our southern border.

[Elegiac]

People will not stop coming regardless of the mines all you will be doing is killing women and children not to mention border patrol who may go into it by accident. This is not a Berlin wall type of situation the US would have to spend trillions of dollars for this to work instead of more effective methods for a fraction of the cost. Also how is this land mined wall going to stop air planes and boats? the majority of illegal immigration doesn't come from our southern border.

Again; he and the rest of the right wing are well aware of it, and that isn't the point.

The point is constructing a monument to their ideology; the right wing wants a Statue of Un-Liberty, basically.

[Draco-Onis]

Again; he and the rest of the right wing are well aware of it, and that isn't the point.

The point is constructing a monument to their ideology; the right wing wants a Statue of Un-Liberty, basically.

Pretty much there is no logical reason to build a mined maned wall at the border it's basically flushing billions down the toilet.

[Kaleredar]

If you want to build a good border wall, one needs to use the Berlin Wall model, including armed guards and land mines. Anything else is just a minor hindrance.

...The berlin wall didn't work, either. People still got through, over or around it.

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Aside of the whole "cages, suffering and persecution!" propaganda, because uncontrolled legal immigration also carries harm, namely if that too many people come without a system to support them the country suffers and worsens. The first purpose of a country are its citizens and its sustainability, not foreigner non-citizens, even if some of those do aspire to become one.
You wouldn't invite 1000 people the same day to come to your house, would you? Think not.

Again, you seem to think there's some sort of "resource scarcity" in the US. You seem to think that the now-legally entering immigrants coming would only consume instead of... you know, work... pay taxes... things that citizens of the US do.

I couldn't care less about what "significantly" means to you. One coming in raping or killing an american citizen is one too many, vetting is necessary.
You don't get to pass the border of a country, any country, as you please.

Then why are you gumming up the "detection network" by having non-violent individuals needlessly clouding the "one rapist" you're hunting for?

You're basically saying "we're on the lookout for needles, but we're warry of any long, narrow objects, so we're going to be adding a whole lot of hay as well."

Like any sane human being I weight pros and cons and decide whether the harm involved is acceptable or not.
Illegal immigration is a strict nope to me.

Then why not make it easier to legally immigrate?

Again, to me it DOES sound like you have a problem with "legal immigration," and you couch it in "THE US IS FULL!" Which is utter nonsense.

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In part.. yes it isn't the only thing automation and forgien trade plays its part as well

Uh huh and what percentage do the illegal immigrants play? How much do they factor in?

Surely you have numbers, yes?

[Belize]

Most government spending in the US is for domestic matters, by far.

Also, brutalizing "brown people" would be calling for the use of land mines without any walls at the border. A full blown Berlin Wall style solution would cause a massive drop in the number of deaths suffered by people attempting to illegally enter the US.

Never mind the guard towers on the Berlin wall that gunned down anyone trying to cross. I bet those met all the OSHA safety standards!

[Malaky]

Again, you seem to think there's some sort of "resource scarcity" in the US.

Resources are limited, by definition.
Just because there isn't a big scarcity today doesn't mean you won't get to that point if you keep spending and giving away recklessly, it's already happened.
A fridge that is plentyful today isn't gonna last long if everyone comes raiding it without accountability.

When the US manage to acquire infinite resources I'll reconsider my position. Until then, the answer is no. Borders are a necessity.

Then why not make it easier to legally immigrate?

Because as I already explained more than once that doesn't address the essence of the problem. You can't open your house to everyone freely, it's just gonna turn into a mess.

[Masark]

Because as I already explained more than once that doesn't address the essence of the problem

Yes, we know all about what you consider the "essence of the problem", despite your continued dancing around it, as actually saying what you mean would get you an infraction even here.

[cubby]

Resources are limited, by definition.
Just because there isn't a big scarcity today doesn't mean you won't get to that point if you keep spending and giving away recklessly, it's already happened.
A fridge that is plentyful today isn't gonna last long if everyone comes raiding it without accountability.

When the US manage to acquire infinite resources I'll reconsider my position. Until then, the answer is no. Borders are a necessity.

Borders are necessary. Walls aren't. They aren't the same thing.

Because as I already explained more than once that doesn't address the essence of the problem. You can't open your house to everyone freely, it's just gonna turn into a mess.

The essence of the immigration problem isn't helped by a wall. Trump has been told this, over and over again, even in crayon, but his racist propaganda needs the wall to be built.

[Malaky]

Yes, we know all about what you consider the "essence of the problem", despite your continued dancing around it, as actually saying what you mean would get you an infraction even here.

"You're a bad guy!" doesn't sound like a solid argument if you ask me.

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Borders are necessary. Walls aren't. They aren't the same thing.

Hey, if it dissuades a good enough % of wannabe illegal crossers I'm fine with it. It's not like the proper ports of entry have been closed.

[Endus]

Because as I already explained more than once that doesn't address the essence of the problem. You can't open your house to everyone freely, it's just gonna turn into a mess.

All you've really said on this "essence" is that it isn't the legality of immigration you have an issue with. You've been real cagey about your actual hostility to immigration.

[muto]

Obviously it’s not going to completely stop them, but it does slow them down. Cutting through it, and building tunnels under it takes time.

[Kellhound]

Again; he and the rest of the right wing are well aware of it, and that isn't the point.

The point is constructing a monument to their ideology; the right wing wants a Statue of Un-Liberty, basically.

Interestingly, I actually never said such a wall should be built, only that it is what would be require for it to be effective.

[Cthulhu 2020]

"You're a bad guy!" doesn't sound like a solid argument if you ask me.

Which is basically the argument you've been using for migrants. "They're bad people crossing!"

Migrant crime is incredibly low compared to domestic crime. In this thread alone we have people advocating for land mines at the border. That's pretty damn violent for simple irrational anger and angst about border crossing.

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All you've really said on this "essence" is that it isn't the legality of immigration you have an issue with. You've been real cagey about your actual hostility to immigration.

He's already given us a hint. He's swallowed Trump's words to the heart. "They're sending rapists, drug dealers, and some I assume, are good people." Despite the statistics that show illegal immigrant crime (beyond simply hopping the border) is far lower than domestic crime, many of these people seem to believe a large number of border hoppers are here to kill us, rape our women, and distribute drugs to our kids. Again, despite that not being backed by any factual evidence.

[Whiskyjack]

There won't ever be a "lack of labour". 0% unemployment is essentially impossible. There is no developed nation of the planet that hits that.

There's also no identifiable correlation between illegal immigration figures and the unemployment rate. So you're again making stuff up that has no basis in reality.



No, you're making shit up. Nothing you're arguing has any basis in fact. You're insisting I accept causative connections between factors when there isn't even a correlation between the two.

I am forcing you to accept that having more people results in different outcomes then having less..

I imagine it's annoying because it highlights a negative in a belief you hold but it still exists.

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...The berlin wall didn't work, either. People still got through, over or around it.

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Again, you seem to think there's some sort of "resource scarcity" in the US. You seem to think that the now-legally entering immigrants coming would only consume instead of... you know, work... pay taxes... things that citizens of the US do.



Then why are you gumming up the "detection network" by having non-violent individuals needlessly clouding the "one rapist" you're hunting for?

You're basically saying "we're on the lookout for needles, but we're warry of any long, narrow objects, so we're going to be adding a whole lot of hay as well."



Then why not make it easier to legally immigrate?

Again, to me it DOES sound like you have a problem with "legal immigration," and you couch it in "THE US IS FULL!" Which is utter nonsense.

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Uh huh and what percentage do the illegal immigrants play? How much do they factor in?

Surely you have numbers, yes?

I don't really get how people like you think to be honest... do you really dismiss everything in life that isn't a 100% solution or a 100% problem?

Seems like fool's way to see the world.

[Saucexorzski]

So the response to proof that the standard form of border fencing we have used to for years is getting counter by sawzalls is for the authoritarian left wingers to laugh at the cheeto in chiefs "wall?" A wall that, thankfully, was never built? Its actions like this that lead me to call the authoritarian left malevolent. No honesty, no integrity, just out looking to cause harm to those you deemed less than yourselves, like a highschool bully. anyways, carry on in your celebration. i wouldn't want to disrupt the party, too much.