This is fundamentally irrational. You're trying to enforce dominance based on it already being dominant. And your motivation is fear that your language will no longer be dominant, which would, in your own argument, mean you'd have to give it up and learn the new language. And I'm sure you wouldn't protest that, right?
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We do. The tensest fights we've had over language have been less testy than, well, basically any issue in American politics.
What an ignorant argument, I don't fear anything I am approaching from a logical standpoint.
Move to Japan, and when people complain you didn't bother trying to function in their society use your google translate to tell them they are "motivated by fear?
Now you're not even being unrealistic, such a culture shift to a different language would take generations.which would, in your own argument, mean you'd have to give it up and learn the new language. And I'm sure you wouldn't protest that, right?
If I move to Mexico I promise you Endus, I would focus on learning Spanish, because that's what a rational functioning adult who want's to contribute to the society they live in would do.
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My wife teaches at a school full of immigrants and refuges, there are 11 different languages spoken in that school. You know how it all works? The fucking kids learn English, the teachers rely on a lot of older students to teach the younger students for translation and teaching, and a lot of kids have to translate for their parents.
Whats your fix, have text books, signs in 11 different languages? LMAO.
"We have to suppress all languages other than the one I speak because I only speak one language" is not remotely logical, in any respect whatsoever.
While I haven't been to Japan, I have been to Spain, France, Italy, and Greece. None of them were hostile to me for having difficulties with the primary language there.Move to Japan, and when people complain you didn't bother trying to function in their society use your google translate to tell them they are "motivated by fear?
1> No it doesn't. Takes one, and only if the first is resistant to learning a new language.Now you're not even being unrealistic, such a culture shift to a different language would take generations.
2> Kind of ironic how you're acknowledging that language shifts can be difficult while simultaneously proposing abusing citizens for not adjusting quickly enough for you.
If you're noticing people using Spanish enough to be bothersome, while living in the USA, same rationale applies.If I move to Mexico I promise you Endus, I would focus on learning Spanish, because that's what a rational functioning adult who want's to contribute to the society they live in would do.
But you won't be consistent about that, because you're making this irrationally nationalist.
Just to add to this point. In Madrid my wife (who speaks conversational Spanish) had issues ordering a mixed drink in a bar. The bartender wasn't hostile and as the two of them tried to figure out exactly what she wanted a bilingual waitress joined the conversation to make sure the order was right.
In America my kid was going on a tour of French art where the tour guide was also French. My kid who speaks the language fluently conversed with the tour guide in their native language until someone who wasn't even part of the group decided to make the "We speak English here" nonsense.
It's two completely different things with language barriers in the US and without.
“You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X
I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)
Never saying you should suppress a language, I said whatever country you live in you should learn the local language, this isn't rocket science
Good, in no way did I say it was Ok to be hostile against people who don't speak your language, in fact I even said it a couple of post up, so why you are bringing up this point is beyond meWhile I haven't been to Japan, I have been to Spain, France, Italy, and Greece. None of them were hostile to me for having difficulties with the primary language there.
Please show me a country that completely changed languages in one generation.1> No it doesn't. Takes one, and only if the first is resistant to learning a new language.
2> Kind of ironic how you're acknowledging that language shifts can be difficult while simultaneously proposing abusing citizens for not adjusting quickly enough for you.
Now you're straight up lying and putting words in my mouth. I am all for people speaking whatever language they want, I am stating everyone should learn a common language.If you're noticing people using Spanish enough to be bothersome, while living in the USA, same rationale applies.
But you won't be consistent about that, because you're making this irrationally nationalist.
Imagine if you moved to a country and didn't bother to learn or read their language, how would you communicate your emergency medial issue if you can't speak to them, wait on a translator?
I mean my god man, expecting people to be able to communicate with each other in a functional society is fucking common sense.
What is your irrational fear of expecting people to assimilate in the country they live in?
No, but it is suppression of language diversity. You saying "no it's not" but demanding subjugation to your own language preference is just you contradicting yourself.
Why are you moving goalposts? Again? This wasn't what you said, before. We were talking about a single person learning a language. I'm not interested in you taking shots at straw men you've slapped my face onto.Please show me a country that completely changed languages in one generation.
Which means you're directly contradicting yourself before you even finish that last sentence.Now you're straight up lying and putting words in my mouth. I am all for people speaking whatever language they want, I am stating everyone should learn a common language.
Forcing people to learn a common language is about subjugation other languages; you can't be in favor of them speaking whatever language they want and want to oblige them to speak another.
While I haven't moved to such a country, I've visited them, and the same would have been true. You get by. With understanding and empathy. It's not, to use something you just said, rocket science.Imagine if you moved to a country and didn't bother to learn or read their language, how would you communicate your emergency medial issue if you can't speak to them, wait on a translator?
You're the one insisting that they have to change to communicate with you, rather than taking it upon yourself to make sure you can communicate with them.I mean my god man, expecting people to be able to communicate with each other in a functional society is fucking common sense.
You're the one establishing barriers.
Bilingualism is not an indication of a lack of assimilation, in the first place. Hence why I said you were engaging in rank nationalism.What is your irrational fear of expecting people to assimilate in the country they live in?
No it's not, the ability to comnicate in a society with other people makes you functional.
It isn't a strawman, you made aclaim I asked for proof, now you're dodging it with a bullshit detraction tactic.Why are you moving goalposts? Again? This wasn't what you said, before. We were talking about a single person learning a language. I'm not interested in you taking shots at straw men you've slapped my face onto.
Where did I ever say force? I said you should how can you force someone to learn a different langue, you make no fucking sense. You either have a hard time grasping the concept I keep repeating or you're playing ignorant.
Which means you're directly contradicting yourself before you even finish that last sentence.
Forcing people to learn a common language is about subjugation other languages; you can't be in favor of them speaking whatever language they want and want to oblige them to speak another.
How do you plan on driving when you can't read the road signs, pull out your phone for google translate im the middle of an intersection? Try being realistic.While I haven't moved to such a country, I've visited them, and the same would have been true. You get by. With understanding and empathy. It's not, to use something you just said, rocket science.
Again you're a liar, you know I said it's about learning the local language, who can it be about forcing people to learn my language when I stated if I moved to Mexico I would focus on learning spanish? I mean you're straight up making bullshit assumptions, try arguing honestly.You're the one insisting that they have to change to communicate with you, rather than taking it upon yourself to make sure you can communicate with them.
Trying to learn a language in the country you live in is the opposite of putting up barriers.You're the one establishing barriers.
Yes it is, if you can't function in a society because you refuse to learn their language you're refusing assimilate.Bilingualism is not an indication of a lack of assimilation, in the first place. Hence why I said you were engaging in rank nationalism.\
I've never seen this, ever. If you haven't seen what I'm talking about, you're just plain NOT LOOKING. If you don't think Democrats have introduced some seriously well thought out immigration bills that streamline the immigration system WITHOUT letting everyone in, then you should probably go educate yourself hmm?
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bil...migration/6206
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Most countries are EXTREMELY accommodating to language barriers, while I know conversational spanish, japanese and french well enough, there are other places I've been where that wasn't the native language, and people were always happily willing to help me work through what I needed. America is perhaps the only place where fuckwads go "WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE SO LEARN IT IMMIGRANT SCUM!" even to fucking tourists.
2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"
Communication runs deeper than just vocal language.
By making it difficult for society to accommodate language differences, you're attempting to force them to adopt your language preference.Where did I ever say force? I said you should how can you force someone to learn a different langue, you make no fucking sense. You either have a hard time grasping the concept I keep repeating or you're playing ignorant.
This isn't complicated. You just don't like me using terms that paint your views in the light they deserve.
Again, I've traveled in countries where I didn't speak the language, even where I didn't share the same alphabet.How do you plan on driving when you can't read the road signs, pull out your phone for google translate im the middle of an intersection? Try being realistic.
Signs weren't a problem. You can figure that stuff out pretty easily, if you make even a modicum of effort. And this was in a time before we all had smartphones with translation apps.
Right, it's about forcing them to learn the local language, because you want society to refuse to accommodate their preferred language.Again you're a liar, you know I said it's about learning the local language, who can it be about forcing people to learn my language when I stated if I moved to Mexico I would focus on learning spanish? I mean you're straight up making bullshit assumptions, try arguing honestly.
I'm not lying, at all. This is what you're talking about; linguistic imperialism.
Having to learn that language is surmounting a barrier.Trying to learn a language in the country you live in is the opposite of putting up barriers.
So no. It really isn't.
Assimilation is primarily driven from the host country, not the immigrant. By being open and accepting of differences, and inviting them to become part of that society regardless.Yes it is, if you can't function in a society because you refuse to learn their language you're refusing assimilate.
Here's a simple question; would you be satisfied if the USA declared that both English and Spanish were the official languages of the nation?
That would be ridiculous. Not having an official language makes more sense here since this is the "melting pot."
The problem is when you work in an establishment where everything is advertised in English, the items are only listed in English etc and the workers only speak Spanish.
Then there is a major barrier.
We're getting pretty far afield of the actual point of discussion here, people.
That being... the abject failure of yet another one of Trump's promises. We should focus on that.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
$100 saw. They over paid. Can prolly find a good 30' ladder on the cheap. Or just get one of those kids that have scaled it like islanders do with palm trees and tie a hand made rope ladder at the top. Or just walk a mile down the wall and walk across cause no actual new wall has been built only replacing already exiting wall that needed refurbishing.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
Imagine moving to live in Japan and then bitching and complaining about the japanese people "trying to subjugate you to their language".
Just when I thought this nonsense couldn't get any more ridiculous.
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They're not forced, they can live their life on signs and understanding 10% of what happens around them.
Wouldn't call that integration though, or even a decent stay.
By the way the reason of the incomprehension here is due to the fact that when Zenkai says "should" Endus hears "must".
Feels like a language barrier, which is quite ironic.
It doesn't matter how you feel about immigration. A wall on the southern border is just plain dumb. It will not work. It would be a huge waste of resources.
Let's recap:
1. most undocumented do not illegally cross on the southern border
2. no matter how nice the wall, people will go over, through, and under it
3. even if the wall was perfect, people would go around it
4. supposed small government conservatives would have to steal thousands of acres of land
5. it would wreck local ecosystems
6. it would do Zero do stop or even slow drug/cartel related activities
7. it would do Zero to make the country safer from any terrorist related threats
In order to support a wall across the entirety of the southern border you have to completely ignore reality. Even if you're the most hateful, racist anti-immigrant person alive on the planet, you'd still have to agree that a wall makes no sense. There would be several dozen other things to do first that would have more of an impact on immigration.
that place isn't the US southern borderbut a wall works at <insert place here>
Last edited by Blur4stuff; 2019-11-14 at 06:55 AM.
Ah but you forgot the two things it actually does do, and are really all that conservatives care about:
1) Make liberals angry
2) show “brown people” they’re not wanted.
It’s entirely immaterial that the reason it makes liberals angry is because it’s a horrendously stupid waste of time and money, or that the aforementioned “brown people” could do any of the also aforementioned methods of circumnavigating the wall; what matters is that liberals are angry and immigrants are told to stay away.
And for that result, no amount of taxpayer money is too great for the republicans to flush down the crapper.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.