Shadow priest nerfs 8.3.0

[Makabreska]

I mean, if you look at the nerfs it seems like blizzard very much does share this point of view

Or maybe it's because next raid has so many multidot targets? Leave shadow untouched, and they will dominate even more. Nerf was warranted (but maybe to severe), and it was balanced around the structure of the raid, not because "shadow should have shit single target".

[Flashforcash]

Or maybe it's because next raid has so many multidot targets? Leave shadow untouched, and they will dominate even more. Nerf was warranted (but maybe to severe), and it was balanced around the structure of the raid, not because "shadow should have shit single target".

People seem to forget that SP is one of the best scaling class in the game. I gain like 7 dps per point of haste AND crit, 5-6 points per point of versa and 4-5 points per versatility. Not many classes scale that good.

Im still afraid of the nerfs are too hard, but mby they have a point and can see the future better than us. For example what if we get good corruption stats besides these.

Not to mention SP have been nerfed each tier on SW: P and VT

[Darth-Piekus]

The better question is. Why do they think the Shadowpriest needs more nerfs when other classes are good in almost every situation?

[Kretan]

People seem to forget that SP is one of the best scaling class in the game. I gain like 7 dps per point of haste AND crit, 5-6 points per point of versa and 4-5 points per versatility. Not many classes scale that good.

Im still afraid of the nerfs are too hard, but mby they have a point and can see the future better than us. For example what if we get good corruption stats besides these.

Not to mention SP have been nerfed each tier on SW: P and VT

Yeah I share this same point of view. The scaling shadow has is pretty nutty.

[Jazzhands]

I've always thought an easy way to balance both DoT and HoT based classes would be to simply make it so that the more targets they have spells on, the less damage/healing they do. So instead of doing 100% damage on two-four targets, it's 90/80/70/60% each. You're still doing a lot more damage when extra targets are around but not the crazy amount that they can currently do. Same for druids, I know this thread is about Spriests but Druids have and likely always will be the top M+ class due to their ability to stack HoTs.

Am I wrong here? Is there something I'm missing that would make this absolutely kill the class in general? It seems like an easy fix to prevent them from getting out of hand on multi target fights, but Blizzard seems to just bandaid nerf DoT classes every time they inevitably get out of hand.

[exochaft]

Ok let me rephrase. Shadow should be in the bottom 5 for ST providing they still dominate all multi dotting fights. This goes for Affliction and Balance as well.

When it comes to the current raid and the fights where optimization matters most (aka the last few bosses in EP), Balance is probably the spec the closest to having a trade-off with the content when it comes to single target and AoE/cleave. Balance lags way behind shadow priests (well most specs technically lag behind here) and moderately behind warlocks in AoE/cleave scenarios in EP. When it comes to ST... Balance overall is middle to occasionally lower end out of all specs in EP unless we get insanely lucky with crits/Visions procs, with warlocks/spriests still ahead on average. In general, Balance has become pretty on par with Feral in terms of capabilities with Balance likely still favored a bit due to being ranged. I still find it slightly puzzling that they're nerfing Moonkin DoT's considering what's happening in EP (especially since Starfall is all but a dead spell despite supposedly being our 'main' AoE spell), but I think it's likely a scaling issue with DoTs in general they expect to see in 8.3 and tackling it now before the progression race begins.

When it comes to spriests and a much lesser extent warlocks, anyone who has been mythic raiding can see how utterly broken their damage output can be in EP. Yes, it's partly due to raid design, like Queen's Court and purposefully getting/keeping one boss low to buff spriest damage or Za'qul and silly haste scaling there. However, it's still heavily the design of the classes themselves and how out of control they can get when the scaling knob gets turned a little higher in conjunction with their design. The result is that in EP, spriests are either topping the meters by a mile or at worst are tightly competing for top DPS on many encounters. While I can sympathize with being at the top above everyone only to receive nerfs instead of bringing everyone else up to that level (I was a bear in Legion, the fall doesn't feel good!), the only logical thing to do in this case is when you have such an extreme outlier is to bring that outlier back to everyone else.

[EnacheV]

i go to warcrat logs, half of the fights have all top only shadow priests

what are you complaining about lol ?

even if they nerf it to be rock bottom from all specs in 8.3 on all fights, its still ok, as someone has to be last and you shadow priest had enough of "winning"

[rips]

i go to warcrat logs, half of the fights have all top only shadow priests

what are you complaining about lol ?

even if they nerf it to be rock bottom from all specs in 8.3 on all fights, its still ok, as someone has to be last and you shadow priest had enough of "winning"

Shadowpriest is best Spec for 2 - TWO - Tiers. "enough winning" meanwhile... mage rogues warlocks laugh in being op for 15 years..... Demon Hunter is the next New King. so fucking OP but is immune to nerfs

[Kretan]

When it comes to the current raid and the fights where optimization matters most (aka the last few bosses in EP), Balance is probably the spec the closest to having a trade-off with the content when it comes to single target and AoE/cleave. Balance lags way behind shadow priests (well most specs technically lag behind here) and moderately behind warlocks in AoE/cleave scenarios in EP. When it comes to ST... Balance overall is middle to occasionally lower end out of all specs in EP unless we get insanely lucky with crits/Visions procs, with warlocks/spriests still ahead on average. In general, Balance has become pretty on par with Feral in terms of capabilities with Balance likely still favored a bit due to being ranged. I still find it slightly puzzling that they're nerfing Moonkin DoT's considering what's happening in EP (especially since Starfall is all but a dead spell despite supposedly being our 'main' AoE spell), but I think it's likely a scaling issue with DoTs in general they expect to see in 8.3 and tackling it now before the progression race begins.

When it comes to spriests and a much lesser extent warlocks, anyone who has been mythic raiding can see how utterly broken their damage output can be in EP. Yes, it's partly due to raid design, like Queen's Court and purposefully getting/keeping one boss low to buff spriest damage or Za'qul and silly haste scaling there. However, it's still heavily the design of the classes themselves and how out of control they can get when the scaling knob gets turned a little higher in conjunction with their design. The result is that in EP, spriests are either topping the meters by a mile or at worst are tightly competing for top DPS on many encounters. While I can sympathize with being at the top above everyone only to receive nerfs instead of bringing everyone else up to that level (I was a bear in Legion, the fall doesn't feel good!), the only logical thing to do in this case is when you have such an extreme outlier is to bring that outlier back to everyone else.

Yeah not nerfing shadow right now would be really dumb. As long as shadow still excels in multi target and mildly average in single after the nerfs i think they will have done a good job.

[PenguinChan]

I've always thought an easy way to balance both DoT and HoT based classes would be to simply make it so that the more targets they have spells on, the less damage/healing they do. So instead of doing 100% damage on two-four targets, it's 90/80/70/60% each. You're still doing a lot more damage when extra targets are around but not the crazy amount that they can currently do. Same for druids, I know this thread is about Spriests but Druids have and likely always will be the top M+ class due to their ability to stack HoTs.

Am I wrong here? Is there something I'm missing that would make this absolutely kill the class in general? It seems like an easy fix to prevent them from getting out of hand on multi target fights, but Blizzard seems to just bandaid nerf DoT classes every time they inevitably get out of hand.

Better to do the latter than the former. Both WoW and FF14 have done this with classes and it gimps the abilities hardcore, and in the end makes you feel less powerful - even if you are technically​ doing more damage than others in AoE situations.

[rips]

Yeah not nerfing shadow right now would be really dumb. As long as shadow still excels in multi target and mildly average in single after the nerfs i think they will have done a good job.

they need to compensate the ST nerf. this is absolute Trash. Its fine if Shadow isnt Top 5 ST anymore but being so bad that you barely beat the Tanks is unacceptable

But im so Happy Warlocks dont get fucking destroyed now we will see 4+ Warlocks in the World First Race again. cuz guess what LOTS of Adds = lots of Drain Life = longer alive

[Kretan]

they need to compensate the ST nerf. this is absolute Trash. Its fine if Shadow isnt Top 5 ST anymore but being so bad that you barely beat the Tanks is unacceptable

But im so Happy Warlocks dont get fucking destroyed now we will see 4+ Warlocks in the World First Race again. cuz guess what LOTS of Adds = lots of Drain Life = longer alive

Do you have a source on barely beats tanks? I have a hard time believing that the nerf was that big on single.

[Krewshi]

You guys deserve it with how OP you are

[Oneirophobia]

should i seriously consider rerolling to a melee?

I've always felt that this game ends up becoming "World of Meleecraft" by the midpoint onwards for every expansion, in pve and/or pvp. I may very well end up on my Death Knight next expansion, casters just generally don't feel good by the end of an expac. Shadow Priest, Elemental Shaman, and Moonkin specifically.

[Kretan]

I've always felt that this game ends up becoming "World of Meleecraft" by the midpoint onwards for every expansion, in pve and/or pvp. I may very well end up on my Death Knight next expansion, casters just generally don't feel good by the end of an expac. Shadow Priest, Elemental Shaman, and Moonkin specifically.

I thought it was actually the opposite. The start of an expansion always felt bad because haste and crit values on casters were low. By the end of the expansion when the stat pools expanded is when casters always felt best to me.

[Theangryone]

Judging by all the walls of text on here, Blizz must have also nerfed paragraphs.

[Locruid]

Im all for balancing, what I dislike is the OUTRIGHT LYING about things:

Fixed a *bug* causing Spiteful Apparitions (Azerite Trait) to be increased by 75% if you do not have Auspicious Spirits talented.

When last year we had this :
https://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=17623983876

Specifically (09/24/18):
Priest
(Discipline, Shadow) Depth of the Shadows: healing increased by 20%.
(Holy) Blessed Sanctuary: bonus increased by 10%.
(Holy) Permeating Glow: bonus increased by 15%.
(Shadow) Spiteful Apparitions: damage bonus increased by 75% when the Auspicious Spirits talent is not selected.
(Shadow) Searing Dialogue: damage increased by 150%.

[united]

Im all for balancing, what I dislike is the OUTRIGHT LYING about things:

Fixed a *bug* causing Spiteful Apparitions (Azerite Trait) to be increased by 75% if you do not have Auspicious Spirits talented.

When last year we had this :
https://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=17623983876

Specifically (09/24/18):
Priest
(Discipline, Shadow) Depth of the Shadows: healing increased by 20%.
(Holy) Blessed Sanctuary: bonus increased by 10%.
(Holy) Permeating Glow: bonus increased by 15%.
(Shadow) Spiteful Apparitions: damage bonus increased by 75% when the Auspicious Spirits talent is not selected.
(Shadow) Searing Dialogue: damage increased by 150%.

Honestly not sure if that’s lying or just incompetence. Maybe both?

[kenn9530]

Reminder that Shadow Priests *should* be terrible single target, or at least near the bottom in relation to every other spec. DoT specs should never be able to compete with other classes for top dps on 1 target, and right now they're near the top, and far and away the best spread dot dps.

no every spec should be able to compete at single target no matter what, balance should always be targeted at single target as most of the time aoe damage is just extra padding that many classes benefit from, but blizzard are so useless at class balance they can never keep the classes within each other, a bad player playing the best single target spec shouldnt be able to beat a playing playing his best just because his class is better with adds.

[Kilee25]

I actually agree with the idea that all the classes should be more or less balanced around a single target DPS race, and that Add damage shouldn't be factored into how well they can drill down a single target. It's fine to have some classes excel in small windows at one particular thing - ie some classes have better burst, or some classes deal more damage against high or low targets, etc... but as a general rule, if you need people to focus down a particular target, I think that all classes should be able to do this without needing specific classes to do it. Mind you, this is in reference to the current game and its many modes of difficulty leading up to mythic progression.

If we're talking about vanilla, then no I don't want to see this at all. I'd rather seem specialists who are good at some things and not others in that scenario.

But in current WoW, where people are regularly "dumped" out of the raid because they are bad at something and another class is better, I don't think that needs to be the design philosophy. They are trying to push WOW as an e-sport lately, so I think there needs to be a different mentality going into it.

Of course i also think it's fine for some classes to be better at ST than others, and I also think it's fine for Spriests to be a bit lower than classes that can't multi-dot or multi-target. Just not "drastically" so. As a general rule if I were designing the game I'd have a set single target goal for most every class - where I want them to fall int he spectrum. Then I would tune every raid boss below mythic level to hit the "average" of that class range in terms of required raid dps - such that if you stacked a raid to benefit from classes that are better at certain bosses than others, it would be very easy for the raid team to overcome it. At the mythic level, I'd tune bosses expecting raids to do that, but anything below that I'd pretty much expect people to just be taking whatever raid members they were fortunate enough to get.