Should bailing on a M+ group be penalized?

[Hoeth]

This may be annoying for players less interested in pushing their M+ rating, but if you are in a group looking to push keys and you all have +18, what is the advantage to saying in a +19 that isn't going to time? If its me and at least one player wants to finish for the chest or whatever I will, but in groups I've run if the key isn't going to time most people are pretty amenable to just calling it.

[Scrysis]

Yes.

If anyone leaves a group, the group is automatically presented with a failed run options. If the remaining players consider the run as failed, then the key is not depleted, but the run gets reset.

I actually like this implementation better. It's hard to determine why someone leaves a group, and punishments don't always work. I would much rather have a system where the rest of the group isn't penalized for the person leaving. Sure, they have to do the run again, but it would be good if the key didn't deplete because someone left early.

[Fallen of Lordaeron]

How would it account for someone purposely de-leveling keys?

[JoshuaNLG]

Raider.io is the problem, people leave because they don't want to tarnish their sacred R.io score.

[Augusta138]

Raider.io is the problem, people leave because they don't want to tarnish their sacred R.io score.

Prolly will be replaced come Shadowlands by a ingame system designed by Blizzard.

Same as they did with gearscore / ilvls in game.

Leavers shouldnt be punished in any way shape or form.
I never leave a run because of bad players or not malkmg timers.

Although i had to leave 2 runs in the last year because of an emergency in my family.

How will a punishment system work with things like the above?
Leavers happen in all aspects of group content, be that raids or m+ or pvp.
Sadly it is the reality in the game.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yes.

Blizzard should make a button on the UI to fail a run. Once used, if 4 out of 5 players (80%) consider it a failed run, the key is depleted and the dungeon is reset back to the beginning.

If anyone leaves without failing the run, they should get a M+ debuff which prevents the starting of an M+ within 1 hour (maybe 30 minutes?). If anyone is grouped with this debuff, the run cannot start until it expires, or the affected party member is removed from the group

If anyone leaves a group, the group is automatically presented with a failed run options. If the remaining players consider the run as failed, then the key is not depleted, but the run gets reset.

I believe Blizzard wants to replace the raider.io addon with an in-game system. Just as they joined the gearscore bandwagon, this will be a case of 'if you can't beat them, join them'.

What you suggest is excellent by the way, a way for players to terminate a failing run with no consequence by consensus. However, the debuff is not enough of a deterrent. Which is where Blizzard's raider.io system replacement comes in. Anyone who bails on an in-progress run for no good reason should get a black mark, and every time they use the group finder to try and join the mythic+ those black marks (say, for the entire season or the previous three months, not all of time) will be visible, as well as number of runs successfully completed. This will allow people to see if someone is prone to bailing and evaluating whether they want that player to join or not. It will also create social pressure for players to stick in the dungeon and finish their commitment.

[Tradu]

Raider.io is the problem, people leave because they don't want to tarnish their sacred R.io score.

Except depleting doesn't make you lose r.io. Nothing does. You might not increase your score either, but it's never going to "tarnish" your score.

[Rinnegan2]

I think this issue can be summed up quite well:

"if you are not competitive enough, to have a fixed circle of friends to run mythic+ with, and you actively seek out a group of strangers to join and complete a mythic+ with, then under no circumstances do you have the right to leave the group before the dungeon is complete."

[Omedon]

So get this. Freehold +14, goes very well up to the first boss. The group is too spread out and the boss charges at a player outside the boss' area, and he despawns. While we wait for him to respawn, a dps just fucking bails without a word.

I got pretty pissed.

I can understand bailing when it seems like the group won't make it in time because people died too many times, but when it's some really random thing that doesn't mean anything, and people bail, that I can't accept.

There should be some kind of penalty, if not game penalty, at least a social penalty like a statistic added to the Armory and check-able by Raider.io, that shows number of leavings before the completion of a mythic dungeon, per season. So chronic deserters get spotted and avoided, plus no one would appreciate getting negative statistics on their account, and would try to actually not leave at the very first thing that doesn't go perfectly.

We are never. Ever. Entitled to a moment of each other's time in this game.

Don't Pug M+ if this really bugs you.

[Rinnegan2]

We are never. Ever. Entitled to a moment of each other's time in this game.

Correct.

We are never. Ever. Entitled to waste the time of 4 other players by leaving the dungeon group before completion.

[Zka]

Raider.io is the problem, people leave because they don't want to tarnish their sacred R.io score.

How do you tarnish a score that is comprised of the highest scoring runs? It's never going to be decreased just because you failed a run.

Also I think Blizzard could just pause the timer and make mobs go OOC and turn invulnerable immediately when someone leaves, then restore it when there are 5 people in the instance again. Leavers would still be inconvenient but at least there would be a great chance finishing the run in time after replacing someone.

[Omedon]

Correct.

We are never. Ever. Entitled to waste the time of 4 other players by leaving the dungeon group before completion.

Actually, yes we are. Leaving is always an option. In a PUG you don't know the reason because you aren't entitled to an explanation. M+ has never been, or at least meant to have been "group content," these are "team content." Run with strangers at your own risk. Strangers come with baggage you aren't entitled to know. There is no barrier to the departure button because that would be absolutely unreasonable to impose.

I could see a deserter debuff, but that's literally as far as it should ever go. Creating a barrier to "cat on fire, gotta go" or any other reason to leave is just a bad look.

Don't PUG M+. Social penalties stick just fine among people that know each other, if that's what one is after.

[Ange]

the irony here is that i assume you don't realize that raider.io is on the biggest reasons for this kind of behavior in the first place.

WoWProgress Mythic+ Karma was a horrible failure, players cheated and exploited the system in weeks and it was killed off by the whole community.

A ranking system is only what left. The rating for "nice" players was abused by boost selling players as soon as it started.

This was all before R.IO got big.

[Rinnegan2]

Leaving is always an option. In a PUG you don't know the reason because you aren't entitled to an explanation.

Don't PUG M+.

leaving due to reasons that aren't related to the game is obviously always an option. and no one ever questioned that. we are talking about people leaving because a PUG doesn't meet their standards.

here is the deal: if you are scared of a PUG underperforming or if you don't want to lose your precious raider.io rating, then guess what: Don't PUG M+.

[holafa]

leaving due to reasons that aren't related to the game is obviously always an option. and no one ever questioned that. we are talking about people leaving because a PUG doesn't meet their standards.

here is the deal: if you are scared of a PUG underperforming or if you don't want to lose your precious raider.io rating, then guess what: Don't PUG M+.

You sound like a really, really bad player.
Like, in OP's example, if I wanted to chest the key (which means potentially doing the 15 after, which is needed for a meta achiev) and the boss reset I'd probably leave too. Why? because I don't want to be there anymore, and that's all that matters, lol.

You can moan about not people leaving your terrible keys as much as you want, but until you pay for someone's account you have no actual say (and even still, you don't really) about how someone spends their time.

Rip key but if a key looks like shit and someone wants to leave, leave.

[clevin]

This has been discussed for years now. There is no way to reliably discern if a leave was justified or not. You simply don't know if that player who bailed on you did so because the boss despawned and he didn't want to play with you anymore, or if same moment something in that player real life came up so he ALT-F4ed to take his daughter to hospital.

There is simply no way to make a punishment system fair.

Oh come on. I hear this all the time "But what if they had to take their kid to the hospital/the house was on fire!!??"

Think about that. How often do true emergencies happen in your lives or the lives of those you know? They're very very rare. On top of that, you can avoid some 'need to leave' issues by not joining if, say, your kid is really sick with the flu or something and might need your attention.

Given that, the number of times a player would have their leave count inflated because of real emergencies would be tiny and no one would care if someone has a couple of leaves. The problem is with people who bail at the slightest issue, over and over again.

[oplawlz]

Yes.

Blizzard should make a button on the UI to fail a run. Once used, if 4 out of 5 players (80%) consider it a failed run, the key is depleted and the dungeon is reset back to the beginning.

If anyone leaves without failing the run, they should get a M+ debuff which prevents the starting of an M+ within 1 hour (maybe 30 minutes?). If anyone is grouped with this debuff, the run cannot start until it expires, or the affected party member is removed from the group

If anyone leaves a group, the group is automatically presented with a failed run options. If the remaining players consider the run as failed, then the key is not depleted, but the run gets reset.

I'd actually make it a 4 hour debuff - something that basically means you're not going to be running an m+ that night if you decide to ditch.

[clevin]

We are never. Ever. Entitled to a moment of each other's time in this game.

Don't Pug M+ if this really bugs you.

disagree. When someone joins a group, they're making a commitment to four other actual people, in this case to finish a run barring something pretty bad. "Pretty bad" could be a massively fail run where people are just crap, the timer's gone and it's been 50 minutes. It could be a real life emergency (but see above). But just bailing for insignificant reasons is failing to keep your end of the bargain.

This is one reason I don't PUG things - people like you in the game who think that only what they want is important and who fail to get the social issues involved. You and people like you make the game far more annoying than it needs to be because you cannot be counted upon.

[Zandalariprelate]

I'd love if they put in the stats of the character how many dungeons has he left just like the Dota 2 profile does with the % of games he/she left

[bigbleach]

So get this. Freehold +14, goes very well up to the first boss. The group is too spread out and the boss charges at a player outside the boss' area, and he despawns. While we wait for him to respawn, a dps just fucking bails without a word.

I got pretty pissed.

I can understand bailing when it seems like the group won't make it in time because people died too many times, but when it's some really random thing that doesn't mean anything, and people bail, that I can't accept.

There should be some kind of penalty, if not game penalty, at least a social penalty like a statistic added to the Armory and check-able by Raider.io, that shows number of leavings before the completion of a mythic dungeon, per season. So chronic deserters get spotted and avoided, plus no one would appreciate getting negative statistics on their account, and would try to actually not leave at the very first thing that doesn't go perfectly.

I'd actually be okay with there being some kind of penalty. I've had keys completely ruined due to people like this. As soon as they think the key isn't going to be their new record or up their score, they dip... which leaves the group maker fucked, their key downgraded, and reforming the group if the others don't get annoyed and just leave anyways, and a complete waste of 4 other players time. However, if the key were to deplete, I'd have 0 issues with people leaving after that. But I think for the first 10 minutes of the dungeon, at the very least, there should be something to help stop this behavior. It's bad overall for the community and the game. Every moron here saying "ThAt'S y U dOn'T pUg", but not everyone has the option to have full premade groups. MY work hours prevent me from currently playing, I'd have to play late evening when there aren't many pug raids going on or M+ groups, that alone makes it not worth me messing with right now. Before my work change, I had run into leavers time and time again. It got to the point I stopped trying to push past 12 or 13 because of it. I'd get a key up, we be on route to at the very least +1 it, something minor would happen. Then someone drops without penalty. I think it would end real quick if they were to deplete the player, causing their next completed run to yield 100% no loot, if they leave within the first 10 minutes of the key. The only people that face a consequence is the key owner. Something to that extent. I've literally had people leave after 3 pulls lol. Over them not liking the path we were taking. It's really really defeating when you do not have a group to play with.