9.0 General Discussion

[Edward Wu]

Fire Mages are pretty braindead right now.

[huth]

you lityteraly arguing that there not talent systems because you ern them after max level rather than earn them whilst leveling.

So you agree that they work differently. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue here, you're not making any sense. The colour of the bar is irrelevant, the relevant point is that the bar isn't linked to the experience bar. It's a seperate progression system.

I'm saying it's not a talent system because it has a different purpose, not because the way you choose your power gains is different. You're arguing they're the same because they have similar UI elements, which is rather silly.

[jzhbee]

the hybrid tax is a design that not only did not work but also had the feel of sandpaper on your scrotum when playing

back in the world you could get stuff like that to work because

class A could do X and Z
class B could do X and Y
class C could do Y and Z

players did not really care because at that point we had just come from a case where

class A could do X but not Y or Z
class B could do Y but not X or Z
class C could do Z but not X or Y

I think what should be the case is that classes a) should do x and y
b) should do x and z
c) should do x and e
where "x" is "does proper DPS/Mitigation/Healing

It's okay to have a niche, it's not okay when your niche is routinely ignored for bigger number.

[Revamp Man]

Why can a Rogue literally do everything better than most other Melee then? Right now, in the current game.

Can an assassination rogue do amazing aoe?

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Debatable and subjective as hell.

They mention class but not spec

With their logic monks are the best melee because we have a tank and heal spec

[Hitei]

Lol. Okay the first post was barely passable but this one is just moronic. You honestly think that A) Mop was the worst in the game for homogenization (that started in Legion btw) and B) that it has steadily improved since then? I want to know what you are on. Actually, I don't. That grade A delusional drug has insane side effects my man. Since Legion, the game (especially spiking with BFA Which is the peak of this topic) has become so homogenized it isn't funny. Everything got worse in terms of differentiating not better lmao.

Haha, yeah! It's not like MoP was the expansion where every caster was given a nearly identical filler movement spell, and every class had a nearly identical personal stun, and every class was given a similar defensive CD, and every class was given similar amounts of personal healing ability, and every class had either a similar generic party buff or generic applied debuff, and every class except shamans (?) had a sprint ability, and five different classes had access to stealth mechanics (four of which were vanish).

Definitely not the expansion where warlocks were literally given a green reskin of ice lance so that they'd have a similar instant cast spell. Definitely not the expansion where all three rogue specs had nearly identical rotations of Keep SnD up > Keep Rupture up > Use Dispatch/Hemo/Revealing strike when needed > Spend the rest of CP on Envenom Evis.

Also totally not the expansion where they:
•gave shadow priests, monks, and warlocks CP systems, and brought Holy Power up to 5 CP to make it even closer
•removed old style Shaman totems in favor of them just being the shaman version of CDs
•generic'd Rogue poisons to function identically to shaman weapon enhancements and removed the ability to forsake utility for two damage poisons
•made warrior stances and paladin seals function exactly like DK presences, a toggle aura that provided an effect instead of interacting with abilities
•removed all paladin auras besides devotion(holy)
•removed hunter dead zone to make it function like any other ranged class and generic'd pets to be any spec.
•removed relics and ranged/thrown items so that everyone functioned on the same identical two weapon slot system
•normalized mana to be the same amount across all casters
•gave every hybrid class a similar cleanse ability

Haha, but nO hOMoGenIzAtiOn iN MOp! It started in Legion btw! I saw someone say it once on the internet!

[George Costanza]

Gonna be honest my best friend thinks wow looks like a mobile game.

[Alanar]

Gonna be honest my best friend thinks wow looks like a mobile game.

I does a bit ye.. shits outdated sometimes.

[Chickat]

MoP class design wasn't perfect but it was a lot better than today.

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I does a bit ye.. shits outdated sometimes.

I think any wow zone from the past 3 expansions look amazing. MoP is showing its age but still gorgeous. Even some data zone still looks decent like Uldum.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Why can a Rogue literally do everything better than most other Melee then? Right now, in the current game.

Imagine saying that sober, this need be punished by law

[Nyel]

No one is going to convince me they actually, actually think that paladins sitting there auto-attacking with seals is better design than current paladin. And I say that as someone who enjoys auto-attack and proc based combat. I liked Vanilla ehancement, but I'm not going to pretend it was better designed than the current one. It just isn't.

You can like other points of a given class' design timeline more than current. I'm not objecting to that. But that doesn't mean classes have gotten worse. It means you liked a specific playstyle more.

I'm talking about the post-MoP times you've brought up. Class design in Classic, TBC and WotLK ranged from dull to bad to okay (still enjoyable for many players, me as well - besides some really bare bones specs). Yet things like Shadow Priest were different and I wish they would go back to having more than just straight homogenized Tank - Healer - DPS roles.

Cataclysm was really good, (for me) Class design / gameplay peaked in MoP / WoD but it started decreasing at that time, got worse in Legion and was only salvaged by artifacts + legendaries which made it enjoyable. It eventually hit rock bottom in BfA.

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....You really want me to explain somehow losing a lot of damage in a Spec designed to focus on damage somehow has something that guts their damage just for some hp/mana regen? Yeah no..... thats just dumb, the spec should be able to do damage effectively.

No, it's not dumb. It's called variety and in the end you're worth more because of your HP/Mana regen than a pure DPS that brings nothing. Dealing -10% damage doesn't mean you're not dealing damage effectively. You've got more than pure DPS on the table and that's what matters here (this doesn't mean you should stack 10 Shadow Priests now or whatever - I'm just asking for some variety besides the choice of spending combo points, holy power or mana to fight).

[George Costanza]

wish they could give rogues more damaging abilities just some non combo related ability would be nice.

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Also a glyph for changing your gun to a rifle from your inventory would be nice :P.

[Asphyx22]

All these things are me at the same time:

Working the night shift from home
Playing Bayonetta
Listening to The Burning Crusade OST in the background
Eating Junior Mints
Staring at this thread in hopes an un-encrypted datamine will magically appear

[Sondrelk]

The more i play though 8.3, the more i am convinced dailies as they are now truly are the root of my issues with that patch. They are not interesting or varied, and really only further underlines how meaningless the grind is.
On the flipside we have the invasions, which are fun to do, especially in conjunction with the not-WQ scattered around that have shared progress meaning it is easy to jump in on an alt and feel like you are helping, instead of the usual beeline for the rare and hope it isnt dead by the time you get there.

If i was of a more conspiratory bent i would assume that Blizzard is deliberately making dailies terrible in this patch, or at least only showing off their worst qualities to kill them off forever. I certainly hope to never see them again.

[ExiHext]

The more i play though 8.3, the more i am convinced dailies as they are now truly are the root of my issues with that patch. They are not interesting or varied, and really only further underlines how meaningless the grind is.
On the flipside we have the invasions, which are fun to do, especially in conjunction with the not-WQ scattered around that have shared progress meaning it is easy to jump in on an alt and feel like you are helping, instead of the usual beeline for the rare and hope it isnt dead by the time you get there.

If i was of a more conspiratory bent i would assume that Blizzard is deliberately making dailies terrible in this patch, or at least only showing off their worst qualities to kill them off forever. I certainly hope to never see them again.

One of my main gripes with 8.3 dailies (and I love dailies in general) is how spread out the questgivers are on the map. Why the heck didn't they just make proper quest hubs for them? I tend to just make the ones that lie central and ignore the others.
On the other hand I never had problems with world quest so dailies going away again wouldn't be that bad for me.

[Sondrelk]

One of my main gripes with 8.3 dailies (and I love dailies in general) is how spread out the questgivers are on the map. Why the heck didn't they just make proper quest hubs for them? I tend to just make the ones that lie central and ignore the others.
On the other hand I never had problems with world quest so dailies going away again wouldn't be that bad for me.

The questgivers being spread out really is a massive gripe as well, especially when you have the Old God invasion in Vale and you have to traverse the entire map to pick up the quest to kill rares, potentially having to fly over rares on the way. The Aqir one as well is also pretty annoying, but at least that one has teh questing area right next to the questgiver.


But again though, invasions are great, allowing the player to fly around doing random stuff until they fight a boss. If emissaries are replaced with a system similar to the one we have now in Vale and Uldum (dailies nothwithstanding) i would be quite happy.
Imagine if instead of flying around Vol'dun doing the 4 easiest quests, you instead flew over to specifically the Sethrak area, or the Pirate area, did some objectives there, maybe an elite or two, then you were finished. Done correctly, with maybe 3-4 different invasions per zone you could have an amazing variety of quests, as each bucket of rares and objectives could be weeks apart, artificially giving you the illusion of the invasions being more varied than they are. (Though rare drops would have to either bee 100% drops or available other times as well)

[Blayze]

Who does the 8.3 dailies? I only do the rares and events.

[Revamp Man]

The questgivers being spread out really is a massive gripe as well, especially when you have the Old God invasion in Vale and you have to traverse the entire map to pick up the quest to kill rares, potentially having to fly over rares on the way. The Aqir one as well is also pretty annoying, but at least that one has teh questing area right next to the questgiver.


But again though, invasions are great, allowing the player to fly around doing random stuff until they fight a boss. If emissaries are replaced with a system similar to the one we have now in Vale and Uldum (dailies nothwithstanding) i would be quite happy.
Imagine if instead of flying around Vol'dun doing the 4 easiest quests, you instead flew over to specifically the Sethrak area, or the Pirate area, did some objectives there, maybe an elite or two, then you were finished. Done correctly, with maybe 3-4 different invasions per zone you could have an amazing variety of quests, as each bucket of rares and objectives could be weeks apart, artificially giving you the illusion of the invasions being more varied than they are. (Though rare drops would have to either bee 100% drops or available other times as well)

My big thing for the dailies....why not WQ so we could have an emissary? The first reps that have no emissaries also have the essences blocked by exalted rep

[Sondrelk]

Who does the 8.3 dailies? I only do the rares and events.

I do them, mostly because i need the coalescing visions to help guildies with their horrific vision runs for cloak. But now that i have geared most of them, and also got the rank 4 essence from the Uldum cache i will probably stop doing them.

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My big thing for the dailies....why not WQ so we could have an emissary? The first reps that have no emissaries also have the essences blocked by exalted rep

Emissary i do not mind being gone, the invasions is a suitable replacement, in theory showing up as often as an emissary might. What i do not like though are when the events do not show up on the map, no idea why they couldnt just show up on the map and just be world quests with a shared completion.

[George Costanza]

Towelliee confirmed on stream that alpha is whenever asmon starts streaming.

[Hitei]

wish they could give rogues more damaging abilities just some non combo related ability would be nice.

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Also a glyph for changing your gun to a rifle from your inventory would be nice :P.

I'd rather they add a "glyph of the highwayman" that turns the two gun shots into knife throws and the dice from RtB into just floating symbols or something so that Outlaw could be played without being so firmly pirate.