Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[Tanaria]

This here is your tell.

That you think night elves having their own stuff, which they do is rubbing off the sin'dorei. And failing to see Nightborne's civilization and arcana is night elven. It's like saying the high elves or void elves are trying to rob the sin'dorei because their buildings and cities or arcane magic is the same or their fans want them to have a city.

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My eyes are constantly popping with the stuff he and Enigmaddict come up with, I mean these guys just reduce the horde fan side respect levels to new lows.

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What is fascinating is that he seems either unwilling or incapable of seeing where others are coming from even if he doesn't agree. He also doesn't come across as genuine or at least he is actually deceiving himself. I get the impression sometimes he and and the other fellow are just trolling us.

I looked at his past posts since he made Tanaria, and checked his other responses, he hasn't changed his tune one bit and has failed to take on board anything others have said. What's worse is that he has no lore based counter, it boils down to what he thinks and feels - not once does he admit "hey, I see this is how it is, but it should go this way..because …" (where he should then honestly say, I prefer it if only the blood elves had magic and civilization - which is basically what it boils down to.

If you could stop stealing things that were originally playable on the Horde, that would be great.

First playable elven mages = Blood Elves, then night elves had to have them.
First playable elven warlocks = Blood Elves, and you've been asking for night elf warlocks.
First playable elves to have a city of a strong arcane focus = Blood Elves, but now you want to steal this as well.

How much more do you want to steal from the Blood Elves?

And High Elves and Void Elves aren't even using Sin'dorei architecture - High Elves live in Night Elf buildings or Dalaran and Void Elves live on rocks.

And I want savage Night Elves. That's not an insult, that's something that was seen in W3 that many people like. Why is it a problem that we don't like the Mage side and want to see a focus on the W3 side? We don't care about the Empire or what was once there...that's buried beneath waves now or in ruins. Ashenvale, Hyjal, Darkshore - these are what I care about, because they are the heart of the Night Elves and why I grew to love them.

It's already been mentioned before now, by others and what people also want Blizzard to focus on. We're not the bad guys, for wanting something (which I think Blizzard is pushing) which doesn't comply with your vision. We are getting W3 forces I don't want them to be Mages. I want them completely different to what they were 10,000 years ago and to see what the Blood Elves and Nightborne continued and how they (the night elves) took a different route. That's not a bad thing. It's what people also want and it's fair to want that. I'm proud of the direction that we seem to heading because 8.1 wasn't great storytelling for them, but the outlook was related back to W3 and I hope we see this, either during or after Shadowlands

[ravenmoon]

If you could stop stealing things that were originally playable on the Horde, that would be great.

Said every alliance player when the blood elves went horde, when horde got druids, and arcane magic, and then advanced cities.

But this hordie is either totally unaware of the origin stories and state of the alliance and the night elves to the extent he feels - night elves of all races using arcane magic is "Stealing" from the horde..and considers night elves having cities like Suramar and Zin'Azshari is "stealing" from the horde.

And he doesn't think he is entitled and likely doesn't see what's wrong with that attitude.

/sigh

[Tanaria]

Said every alliance player when the blood elves went horde, when horde got druids, and arcane magic, and then advanced cities.

But this hordie is either totally unaware of the origin stories and state of the alliance and the night elves to the extent he feels - night elves of all races using arcane magic is "Stealing" from the horde..and considers night elves having cities like Suramar and Zin'Azshari is "stealing" from the horde.

And he doesn't think he is entitled and likely doesn't see what's wrong with that attitude.

/sigh

I'm not interested in W2 and before - Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, years before the Third War and joined the Illidari (Sunfury Blood Elves) through Lady Vashj and Illidan and the Horde, through Sylvanas Windrunner.
They, as Blood Elves, were never Alliance.

Night Elf Mages came in Cataclysm. If we can't see them in W3, when they were introduced and even the implications in W3 that they had all become Naga or High/Blood Elves, then I'm not interested in what they have to offer now.
Blood Elves are already well established, more than Night Elf Mages.

It seems their is an intolerance towards those who don't worship and kiss the ground, Night Elf Mages walk on. Just because I prefer the savage Night Elves who Grommash fought against, somehow it's a bad thing...Well, with this sort of arrogant attitude, it does Blizzard more favors to expand on the Black Moon (Sentinel, Druid, Warden, Hunter) lore.

/sigh - but at least Blizzard is expanding on what the majority loved about Night Elves in W3. We just need to expand on Sin'dorei Arcane lore again as that's been forgotten and then we've got the best bits.

[Alanar]

I'm not interested in W2 and before - Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, years before the Third War and joined the Illidari (Sunfury Blood Elves) through Lady Vashj and Illidan and the Horde, through Sylvanas Windrunner.
They, as Blood Elves, were never Alliance.

Night Elf Mages came in Cataclysm. If we can't see them in W3, when they were introduced and even the implications in W3 that they had all become Naga or High/Blood Elves, then I'm not interested in what they have to offer now.
Blood Elves are already well established, more than Night Elf Mages.

It seems their is an intolerance towards those who don't worship and kiss the ground, Night Elf Mages walk on. Just because I prefer the savage Night Elves who Grommash fought against, somehow it's a bad thing...Well, with this sort of arrogant attitude, it does Blizzard more favors to expand on the Black Moon (Sentinel, Druid, Warden, Hunter) lore.

/sigh - but at least Blizzard is expanding on what the majority loved about Night Elves in W3. We just need to expand on Sin'dorei Arcane lore again as that's been forgotten and then we've got the best bits.

Completely agree on everything you said. All those things in the past are there for a reason.. night elves, blood elves etc all moved on. I am also more interested in filling gaps and not try to put more in the gap thatnis already full.. talkiing about arcane side.. which is covered by 2 races that are also elves.

The future with tyrande, nightnwarrior and wardens are the parts that fit the night elves the most and it seems they are putting their focus on that part luckily.

I dont think there is need for a back and forth discussion that is just a repeat on what we already discussed.

I think we can all agree on the fact we have 2 races covering the arcane side of the elves and there is no imo no need to push that same deal into a third elves race as of 2020.

The night elf azshara empire is long gone as many have said already, that arcane lifestyle is not a big thing in the current night elves empire anymore and I think that is fine. I mean we have the freaking evolution of the highborne playable now! That does say something and overlapping them to much with the same thing we have seen already with blood elves and now nightborne seems like a bad move in general.

Wardens, savage druids, nigh warrior and elune. Thats where its at and we will continue to do so in the shadowlands.

[Tuor]

Night Elf Mages came in Cataclysm.

No, NElf mages aren't even NElfs at all, they the survivors of the Highborne, they existed since days the other non Kaldorei Elfs banned them for refusing using magic. These Highborne, rulled over all other Kaldorei Elfs, they were the elite. The ones we play in-game are still kaldorei, just like NElfs, they are still the same race as NElfs.

If we can't see them in W3, when they were introduced and even the implications in W3 that they had all become Naga or High/Blood Elves, then I'm not interested in what they have to offer now.

I think they (the Highborne) make more sense then Blood Elfs Warriors.

But yes, the NElf faction (and the Highborne are not part of it) is suposed to be nature based, and yes, i would like to keep seeing that stuff being developed. NElf Paladins, Shamans and even less Warlocks, just don't make any sense.

[Alanar]

No, NElf mages aren't even NElfs at all, they the survivors of the Highborne, they existed since days the other non Kaldorei Elfs banned them for refusing using magic. These Highborne, rulled over all other Kaldorei Elfs, they were the elite. The ones we play in-game are still kaldorei, just like NElfs, they are still the same race as NElfs.


I think they (the Highborne) make more sense then Blood Elfs Warriors.

But yes, the NElf faction (and the Highborne are not part of it) is suposed to be nature based, and yes, i would like to keep seeing that stuff being developed. NElf Paladins, Shamans and even less Warlocks, just don't make any sense.

Yes.. when you make a night elf mage.. you are still a nigh elf, Not a highborne, the closest you can get is playing a nightborne.

[Mace]

Said every alliance player when the blood elves went horde, when horde got druids, and arcane magic, and then advanced cities.

But this hordie is either totally unaware of the origin stories and state of the alliance and the night elves to the extent he feels - night elves of all races using arcane magic is "Stealing" from the horde..and considers night elves having cities like Suramar and Zin'Azshari is "stealing" from the horde.

And he doesn't think he is entitled and likely doesn't see what's wrong with that attitude.

/sigh

Not to mention that it is the night elves that are supposed to be the savage race now - supposedly because Highborne numbers are so small [great logic], ignoring the mass killings of the horde and blood elves - in the most brutal and cruel way (Lorash in WoT, Blood elf in Desolace, Belf in Azshara zone, Belves in TBC), but these are civilised elves. Yes.


But when would Tanaria realise that the developers don't view things like that. No faction or race is the sole purveyor of one thing. It actually has never been like this except for the Night elven druidism when it was introduced. But then that was shared. The rest of the night elven lore, the mages and priests exist in many other races, they just gave the night elves a version of these things. This is now how Warcraft is designed. It's not that one group later showing things another group was seen with first somehow has dibs and entitled to be the only ones. Night elves had mages and arcane in their lore from the beginning, so what If it was playable.

It's what is there, don't deny it.

[Tanaria]

No, NElf mages aren't even NElfs at all, they the survivors of the Highborne, they existed since days the other non Kaldorei Elfs banned them for refusing using magic. These Highborne, rulled over all other Kaldorei Elfs, they were the elite. The ones we play in-game are still kaldorei, just like NElfs, they are still the same race as NElfs.


I think they (the Highborne) make more sense then Blood Elfs Warriors.

But yes, the NElf faction (and the Highborne are not part of it) is suposed to be nature based, and yes, i would like to keep seeing that stuff being developed. NElf Paladins, Shamans and even less Warlocks, just don't make any sense.

Blood Elf Warriors actually make far more sense than Night Elf Mages.
Blood Elf Warriors were always in the game, with Kael's army of Sunfury Blood Elves and I heard this was the original idea behind them, but also the Silvermoon and Eversong Guardians were all Blood Elven, Horde Warriors, so they have always been in the game since TBC and worked with the Blood Elves.

Night Elf Mages were neutral/hostile between Classic to the middle of Wrath.

Not to mention that it is the night elves that are supposed to be the savage race now - supposedly because Highborne numbers are so small [great logic], ignoring the mass killings of the horde and blood elves - in the most brutal and cruel way (Lorash in WoT, Blood elf in Desolace, Belf in Azshara zone, Belves in TBC), but these are civilised elves. Yes.


But when would Tanaria realise that the developers don't view things like that. No faction or race is the sole purveyor of one thing. It actually has never been like this except for the Night elven druidism when it was introduced. But then that was shared. The rest of the night elven lore, the mages and priests exist in many other races, they just gave the night elves a version of these things. This is now how Warcraft is designed. It's not that one group later showing things another group was seen with first somehow has dibs and entitled to be the only ones. Night elves had mages and arcane in their lore from the beginning, so what If it was playable.

It's what is there, don't deny it.

It is there and it's utterly appalling. Azshara gives us the proof of that. They added Night Elf Mage and made it a total embarrassment. That lore could have been to expand the older features that we knew about, but no...we get given shambolic mages, who are so far behind in magical practices. It is humiliating.

The Highborne of the Elite Circle's descendants have taken their mastery of the Arcane to whole other levels and they have wielded it far longer than the Night Elves. The fact that you both shroud yourselves in head-canon is astonishing...I know it's a brutal truth, but the facts speak for themselves. The current Night Elf Mages are horrible and pathetic. It's fact, we've seen what they can do in-game and it isn't impressive.

Completely agree on everything you said. All those things in the past are there for a reason.. night elves, blood elves etc all moved on. I am also more interested in filling gaps and not try to put more in the gap thatnis already full.. talkiing about arcane side.. which is covered by 2 races that are also elves.

The future with tyrande, nightnwarrior and wardens are the parts that fit the night elves the most and it seems they are putting their focus on that part luckily.

I dont think there is need for a back and forth discussion that is just a repeat on what we already discussed.

I think we can all agree on the fact we have 2 races covering the arcane side of the elves and there is no imo no need to push that same deal into a third elves race as of 2020.

The night elf azshara empire is long gone as many have said already, that arcane lifestyle is not a big thing in the current night elves empire anymore and I think that is fine. I mean we have the freaking evolution of the highborne playable now! That does say something and overlapping them to much with the same thing we have seen already with blood elves and now nightborne seems like a bad move in general.

Wardens, savage druids, nigh warrior and elune. Thats where its at and we will continue to do so in the shadowlands.

Thank you so much. I know many more people want this, but sometimes, it feels like I'm on my own. It's nice to see the support is still here.

We don't hate Night Elves. We just want to see more of an angle to Night Elves that are more true to how we met them in W3.

[Mace]

I think we can all agree on the fact we have 2 races covering the arcane side of the elves and there is no imo no need to push that same deal into a third elves race as of 2020.
.

It's actually just one race.

If you are going to include all the sub factions - then it's 5 races - night elves, high elves, blood elves, void elves, Nightborne

only horde fans will see it in the way that makes it look a crime against identity for the night elves to have their own stuff. It's okay if it's on the Nightborne (a night elf sub race) but not on the Night elves.

The same would be laughing at me if I kept arguing that the high elves and void elves should be having the main assets of the Thalassians, not the blood elves. especially the void elves, because they are now the primary magical elf, so blood elves should focus more on the light. I then go on to point out how the identity of the alliance is the magic faction and the civilization faction and the horde is stealing from it, and shouldn't have any of these. they should develop the blood elves and Nightborne in a different direction.

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Blood Elf Warriors actually make far more sense than Night Elf Mages.
Blood Elf Warriors were always in the game, with Kael's army of Sunfury Blood Elves and I heard this was the original idea behind them, but also the Silvermoon and Eversong Guardians were all Blood Elven, Horde Warriors, so they have always been in the game since TBC and worked with the Blood Elves.

Night Elf Mages were neutral/hostile between Classic to the middle of Wrath.

wow, it's all coming out now isn't it, how distorted the views are. You are entitled to feel that way ofc, but wow, that you feel that way just shows, it just shows...

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You really can't see it can you. You are earnest, not trolling, I am really sorry for all the sarcasm and snide remarks, from me and my counterpart. It was rude of me and my anger and frustration at your attitude got the better of me. I am sorry. You need to zoom out and see the bigger picture - this is wisdom.

Let go of prejudice, pride, jealousy, humble yourself, open your mind, go back to the original materials, and don't come at it from 1-side view even if you may like your side.

I sincerely hope this topic helps you, it was made for those who didn't see. If you choose to close your eyes, I can't force them open, but it's not sensible to close your eyes just because we annoy you or are irritating. Even if you get offended by this, I hope for the sake of knowledge and understanding you would lay aside that pride that leads to offense so you can actually learn. Such emotions will obfuscate you, preventing the clarity you need to see properly.

Hope it helps.

[Tuor]

Yes.. when you make a night elf mage.. you are still a nigh elf, Not a highborne, the closest you can get is playing a nightborne.

Unless it has been retconed, the very presence of a well know Highborne in Darnussus during wrath (the one who seeked to speak with Tyrande) denies your statment. NElf mages are without doubt Highborne, and yes, that was the official stament from Blizzard to give mages to NElfs.

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Blood Elf Warriors actually make far more sense than Night Elf Mages.
Blood Elf Warriors were always in the game, with Kael's army of Sunfury Blood Elves and I heard this was the original idea behind them, but also the Silvermoon and Eversong Guardians were all Blood Elven, Horde Warriors, so they have always been in the game since TBC and worked with the Blood Elves.

Same thing with the Highborne. Going back to a few posts before this one, the reason you gave for NElfs not being mages was that at WC3 they were mostly savages. Its the same exact thing with Blood Elfs, in WC3 the closest units they had to warriors were the spellbrakers and the archers, Kael got realy angry when Garithos got all the footmen and paladins with him... Kael didn't had a single valid Blood Elf with him.

Night Elf Mages were neutral/hostile between Classic to the middle of Wrath.

And they (the Highborne) reunited with the NElfs during Cata events after sending an emissary to Darnassus, even your statment proves the existence of NElf mages, even that, has i've said before, they not NElfs at all, they Highborne, the few ones that remained Kaldorei and didn't got transformed into other Elfs, naga or Satyr.

[Hellspawn]

Unless it has been retconed, the very presence of a well know Highborne in Darnussus during wrath (the one who seeked to speak with Tyrande) denies your statment. NElf mages are without doubt Highborne, and yes, that was the official stament from Blizzard to give mages to NElfs.

Some of the night elf mages are highborn. But the Shen'dralar started to teach magic to night elfs in cataclysm so... there are night elf mages that are no Shen'dralar. At this point there may even be more non Shen'dralar mages within the night elf society, but thats speculation.

[Mehrunes]

It's actually just one race.

If you are going to include all the sub factions - then it's 5 races - night elves, high elves, blood elves, void elves, Nightborne

only horde fans will see it in the way that makes it look a crime against identity for the night elves to have their own stuff. It's okay if it's on the Nightborne (a night elf sub race) but not on the Night elves.

Nightborne are still not a subrace of Night Elves with a different level of nightelvennessness. They are their own separate race as stated by both their Legion cinematic and the Chronicle v1.

[ravenmoon]

Magic is the great prize of the elf fan club.

Both fans want the fanciest and coolest rendition of it. Except faction conflict makes one group think they are entitled to it over another.

The lore has given the elf race magic galore, it started with the Night elves from whom all elven groups come from. Being on the alliance doesn’t make one less civilized or less magical.

Sure, modern day alliance elves – i.e. night elves, high elves and void elves haven’t been shown to be very magical – indeed, they’ve rather been shown as people in survival mode living simply without any of the grandness and specialty of their race. however the lore certainly defines them as such, and if you pay attention to the race and not the surroundings, there is magic galore. Yet this is denied by horde elf fans.

In contrast, the horde elves have been given it all, the glory of the high elves is seen in the blood elves, and the product of the night elves’ best era is seen with the Nightborne. It shouldn’t surprise us horde fans feel that this defines the horde elves and separates them from the alliance elves.

But to deny Night elves have arcane capability and a civilization is obviously incorrect. While you can argue that alliance elves shouldn’t have arcane magic or civilization (insert whatever reason you feel – whether because you think that’s the horde identity or because you think or rather want night elvf faction to no longer desire civilization or the arcane – and then use that as some sort of proof that it shouldn’t be there) – you cannot escape the real reason for this spat.

Having cool awesome magic, awesome looking magical civilization and forests is what fans who love elves desire the most. If blizzard only puts the best parts on one faction, they seriously disadvantage the other in that regard.

Secondly, there is no real reason why only the horde elves should visibly have magic and civilization –

• Just because that was first shown in the horde elves is not a valid reason (would you say because alliance races first had cities and arcane magic therefore that should be an alliance exclusive identity only? When that’s what most of your players like?)
• Just because the night elf and high elf lore put them in their current predicament is not proof that elven magic and cities are exclusive property of the horde.
• Just because you want that for your fvourite faction isn’t a valid reason, seeing as both sides do, and there is no reason for one to have it over the other
• I find that as a night elf fan, and druid fan, my interest in seeing the night elves develop more in this area is because it is part of their lore and I like that. As a fan of the race, their stories and their civilization I always found myself drawn to and greatly desiring more of it to be seen in game. I wanted their version, with their silver moon white buildings, temples, astrological towers, mage sanctums etc etc, with their unique star/moon arcane magic. I never once coveted the blood evles’ version.
• Horde elf fan reasons seem to have nothing to do witih blood elf lore or history, no in fact, it’s entirely so the other faction doesn’t get what they think is there. The one repeating excuse is that it’s on the horde, it’s the horde’s – the motivation is based entirely on the other facion not getting elven stuff that’s nice. They don’t want lalinae to have playable high elves, they don’t want night elven highborne to exist let alone be a thing or worse have a cool night elf city – because the best parts of the night elf lore, over arcane magic, belong to the highborne which in their heads means belongs to the blood elves and the horde --- never mind the high elves, never mind the many other night elven groups that still have this a part of them, nevermind this is night elven lore, not some new race that was created in forests and lived in forests all of a sudden wanting to have something to do with the arcane.

I find the only explanation is far from reasonable – I don’t want you to have cool stuff. Only my side should.

There are definitely other lines of distinction, and actually lore wise, having magic and cities has never been the distinction between the two, the fan clamour is creating an artificial difference. It actually just turned out in order to make the horde more attractive that they got their first elven race and a great city too. The Nightborne going horde was clamoured for most by horde fans, but itw as greatly desired by alliance fans too – the deves felt it better to give it to the horde.

However it’s not because this is the identity of the horde, because if you know your lore, all those things are part of the alliance elves too – and it would be kicking themselves sin the foto to forever have alliance elves as the desolate, orphaned and homelss group either bunking it with other sor making primitive dwellings in ruins when they are written to be a great race.

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Some of the night elf mages are highborn. But the Shen'dralar started to teach magic to night elfs in cataclysm so... there are night elf mages that are no Shen'dralar. At this point there may even be more non Shen'dralar mages within the night elf society, but thats speculation.

And an altogether valid one.

We don't know what the numbers are. Blizzard told and showed us that amongst the night elves that the shen'dralar brought into the fold and started teaching were Highborne who'd been amongst the Long vigil and Darnassian groups, many of whom had upheld the ban, switching to druidism too - they hold the rank Lorekeeper in early cataclysm, and they seem to cast both nature's wrath and mage spells. They are the night elven mages you fight in Azshara zone, and they are also tasked wtih teaching the brand new recruits - i.e. night elves who have never handled arcane magic but were picked out for their talent and joined the shen'dralar.


We have no idea what the numbers are, but we see lots of npc novices in Azshara, and lots of NPC lorekeepers, we also see other schools of night elf mage students in other zones like Feralas been taught by Estulan and some older lorekeepers.

this makes sense, if you're a returning highborne, you are 10k years out of practice, you may know a lot of things, but you still have to learn a lot and refresh and use a lot of knowledge you'd have long since had as a distant memory.

When we go through Azshara, the cataclysm has only just happened, these mages a few weeks to months tops in training.

In all fairness, the number of mages could be as large as the druids or priests, larger even if the devs wanted to, we have no way of telling.

You cannot rely on starting zone numbers because what you experience is the state of affairs at teh start of the catalcysm, it's been 10 years since. If you study the night elf npc ratio (not that that is a reliable source of information), you can see the new night elf npcs showing up in MoP, WoD, Legion, BFA have a fair number of mages too. I 'd be surprised if they were as much as the druids or order of Elune females, but they could be anything blizzard wants them to be.

[Lahis]

You cannot rely on starting zone numbers because what you experience is the state of affairs at teh start of the catalcysm, it's been 10 years since. If you study the night elf npc ratio (not that that is a reliable source of information), you can see the new night elf npcs showing up in MoP, WoD, Legion, BFA have a fair number of mages too. I 'd be surprised if they were as much as the druids or order of Elune females, but they could be anything blizzard wants them to be.

Each expansion only lasts for a year in the timeline so it has been only 5 to 6 years since Cataclysm.

[Tanaria]

You cannot rely on starting zone numbers because what you experience is the state of affairs at teh start of the catalcysm, it's been 10 years since. If you study the night elf npc ratio (not that that is a reliable source of information), you can see the new night elf npcs showing up in MoP, WoD, Legion, BFA have a fair number of mages too. I 'd be surprised if they were as much as the druids or order of Elune females, but they could be anything blizzard wants them to be.

Considering Darnassus was destroyed and many elves were killed, their numbers are probably back on the "almost extinct" side.

Also, you are aware that Night Elves were created in W3 right?

The retconning to High Elven lore that had to take place, to make the Night Elves work was numerous.
High Elven Druidic lore, for example, had to be changed to make the Night Elves work.

[Alanar]

It's actually just one race.

If you are going to include all the sub factions - then it's 5 races - night elves, high elves, blood elves, void elves, Nightborne

only horde fans will see it in the way that makes it look a crime against identity for the night elves to have their own stuff. It's okay if it's on the Nightborne (a night elf sub race) but not on the Night elves.

The same would be laughing at me if I kept arguing that the high elves and void elves should be having the main assets of the Thalassians, not the blood elves. especially the void elves, because they are now the primary magical elf, so blood elves should focus more on the light. I then go on to point out how the identity of the alliance is the magic faction and the civilization faction and the horde is stealing from it, and shouldn't have any of these. they should develop the blood elves and Nightborne in a different direction.

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wow, it's all coming out now isn't it, how distorted the views are. You are entitled to feel that way ofc, but wow, that you feel that way just shows, it just shows...

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You really can't see it can you. You are earnest, not trolling, I am really sorry for all the sarcasm and snide remarks, from me and my counterpart. It was rude of me and my anger and frustration at your attitude got the better of me. I am sorry. You need to zoom out and see the bigger picture - this is wisdom.

Let go of prejudice, pride, jealousy, humble yourself, open your mind, go back to the original materials, and don't come at it from 1-side view even if you may like your side.

I sincerely hope this topic helps you, it was made for those who didn't see. If you choose to close your eyes, I can't force them open, but it's not sensible to close your eyes just because we annoy you or are irritating. Even if you get offended by this, I hope for the sake of knowledge and understanding you would lay aside that pride that leads to offense so you can actually learn. Such emotions will obfuscate you, preventing the clarity you need to see properly.

Hope it helps.

If its 1 or 2 or 25 races, the point is that its covered.
Nitpicking here doesnt matter to the actual point I was teying to make.
I also dissagree on saying only horde thinks that way.. like what? how can you even back this up? Who says I dont have alliance characters..

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Unless it has been retconed, the very presence of a well know Highborne in Darnussus during wrath (the one who seeked to speak with Tyrande) denies your statment. NElf mages are without doubt Highborne, and yes, that was the official stament from Blizzard to give mages to NElfs.

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Same thing with the Highborne. Going back to a few posts before this one, the reason you gave for NElfs not being mages was that at WC3 they were mostly savages. Its the same exact thing with Blood Elfs, in WC3 the closest units they had to warriors were the spellbrakers and the archers, Kael got realy angry when Garithos got all the footmen and paladins with him... Kael didn't had a single valid Blood Elf with him.


And they (the Highborne) reunited with the NElfs during Cata events after sending an emissary to Darnassus, even your statment proves the existence of NElf mages, even that, has i've said before, they not NElfs at all, they Highborne, the few ones that remained Kaldorei and didn't got transformed into other Elfs, naga or Satyr.

Yes.. so when the 3 highborne went to tyrande.. I assume they are there to teach the nigh elves AGAIN what a mage is.. so you play a mage to got tough my these highborne.

When you roll a night elf mage you are exactly that.
No need to make this very hard. I hate the: If, could be, they might be highborne. When its pretty obvious they are not.

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Blood Elf Warriors actually make far more sense than Night Elf Mages.
Blood Elf Warriors were always in the game, with Kael's army of Sunfury Blood Elves and I heard this was the original idea behind them, but also the Silvermoon and Eversong Guardians were all Blood Elven, Horde Warriors, so they have always been in the game since TBC and worked with the Blood Elves.

Night Elf Mages were neutral/hostile between Classic to the middle of Wrath.



It is there and it's utterly appalling. Azshara gives us the proof of that. They added Night Elf Mage and made it a total embarrassment. That lore could have been to expand the older features that we knew about, but no...we get given shambolic mages, who are so far behind in magical practices. It is humiliating.

The Highborne of the Elite Circle's descendants have taken their mastery of the Arcane to whole other levels and they have wielded it far longer than the Night Elves. The fact that you both shroud yourselves in head-canon is astonishing...I know it's a brutal truth, but the facts speak for themselves. The current Night Elf Mages are horrible and pathetic. It's fact, we've seen what they can do in-game and it isn't impressive.



Thank you so much. I know many more people want this, but sometimes, it feels like I'm on my own. It's nice to see the support is still here.

We don't hate Night Elves. We just want to see more of an angle to Night Elves that are more true to how we met them in W3.

Well its because it feels like its 3 vs everyone else.
Luckily most people(everyone else) likes to see the actual night elf things we have seen in the past 15 years or so and continue to do so.
The people who want thing arcane thing to be a thing again.. are realy off. Let the wow night elves be night elves and not go back to their past.. its doesnt fit the night elves anymore.

We need more lore on elune, night warrior and whats uo with the emerald dream etc. Thats what the wow night elves are about and I hope we see acrual story progress with their own kit going foward. I realy dont see the need in pushing that arcane vibe to the night elves. In all these 15 years we never seen an interest in the arcane in a grand scale like in the past.

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Some of the night elf mages are highborn. But the Shen'dralar started to teach magic to night elfs in cataclysm so... there are night elf mages that are no Shen'dralar. At this point there may even be more non Shen'dralar mages within the night elf society, but thats speculation.

This, I dont think there is need for speculation on this tbh.. most of them died anyway and what we see is just that.. some revered mages who were hiding all these time to come back and teach 1 or 2 night elves to be mages. So the ones you play is a night elf who learned the arcane way, fine. Nothing more. If we are talking numbers of the highborne? Only blizz knows and lets be real.. it will probably not be that many.

Sure we can speculate on numbers here.. but who cares what do we get out of tit?

[Mace]

If its 1 or 2 or 25 races, the point is that its covered.
Nitpicking here doesnt matter to the actual point I was teying to make.
I also dissagree on saying only horde thinks that way.. like what? how can you even back this up? Who says I dont have alliance characters..

Most horde don't think that way, but a few vocal ones here do, now even some of the vocal ones don't have that motivation, but this aversion comes largely and is fanned by those who have that jealous motivation.


I would be fine if blizz did with night elves /Nightborne what they've done with void elves/ blood elves - would help drive the point home to most people the range of diversity of these races. The things from Nightborne that the night elf models can get is a slim body build, arcane tattoos and different pose, and Nightborne can receive buklier body builds from night elves, the night elf skin tone range, hair colours and a different pose. Their major distinguishing feature would be their ears ofc

[sam86]

Whether sentinel, druid etc, these are 10 k year old ancients with a pheonmenal amount of mastery and experience, as well as super human skill , magical sensitivity and ability, yet such a pathetic showing - the horde should have ben very lucky to be able to do what they did.

so u consider horde holding itself against nelf a crime, and nelf following humans in first place isn't!?
at least horde are group of survivals, not literally the only faction that didn't give a single f8ck about entire world ending and refused to help in any form because emo Varian was qq his wife death by hunting old horde in Blackrock mountains
Also current nelf is a joke, i'm big advocate to bring back wc3 nelf and make them alliance leaders or at least leave alliance alltogether, not the highschool cheerleaders we get in wow

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Considering Darnassus was destroyed and many elves were killed, their numbers are probably back on the "almost extinct" side.

Also, you are aware that Night Elves were created in W3 right?

The retconning to High Elven lore that had to take place, to make the Night Elves work was numerous.
High Elven Druidic lore, for example, had to be changed to make the Night Elves work.

the high elf druid 'retcon' is really recent, even during TBC helf had druids, belfs obviously turned their back on nature so it made sense they aren't druids
no idea when blizz decided that helf never had druids, but at least it wasn't during TBC era, maybe cata when we got holy cows?

[ravenmoon]

so u consider horde holding itself against nelf a crime, and nelf following humans in first place isn't!?
at least horde are group of survivals, not literally the only faction that didn't give a single f8ck about entire world ending and refused to help in any form because emo Varian was qq his wife death by hunting old horde in Blackrock mountains
Also current nelf is a joke, i'm big advocate to bring back wc3 nelf and make them alliance leaders or at least leave alliance alltogether, not the highschool cheerleaders we get in wow

I was stabbing at how they portrayed them in the story against how they are shown in game

(especially during the Cata levelling quests)

. They night elves roll over too easily in game, meanwhile the lore talks big about them officially.
With that sort of talk, I would have written the horde victories to be worn, but very hard fought, like you do against a superior skilled foe. You overwhelm with numbers or you get lucky or find some unexpected edge. Not the complete rofltstomp we got.

[Alanar]

Most horde don't think that way, but a few vocal ones here do, now even some of the vocal ones don't have that motivation, but this aversion comes largely and is fanned by those who have that jealous motivation.


I would be fine if blizz did with night elves /Nightborne what they've done with void elves/ blood elves - would help drive the point home to most people the range of diversity of these races. The things from Nightborne that the night elf models can get is a slim body build, arcane tattoos and different pose, and Nightborne can receive buklier body builds from night elves, the night elf skin tone range, hair colours and a different pose. Their major distinguishing feature would be their ears ofc

Mace isn't this thread pure jealously?;p

Yea.. no. I am not a fan of this lets trade everything now, because we want to be x. They could do that, but I hope they just don't do this. Let nightborne be nightborne.
You basically saying: i want nightborne on the Alliance, with just the ear difference being their major flaw.. no Mace, Nightborne are unique because: Arcane tattoos, slim body, differnt pose. lets just not do what you are saying and leave them alone. Besides, they are a completely differnt race now.. They are not even directly connected anymore in that sense. quoted: Nightborne are still not a subrace of Night Elves with a different level of nightelvennessness. They are their own separate race as stated by both their Legion cinematic and the Chronicle v1.
So there is no reason to even start talking about what just happend with void elves and blood elves.

ps: You can keep your ugly bulkier models it will never fit on my raw arcane skinny elf, not even as an option,ew.