[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Rennadrel]

I think the best part of the roadmap for a roadmap drama is that is a roadmap for sq42 that is supposed to be in beta in less then 2 months.

Yeah, I sure as hell am not holding my breath. Considering how much everything else has been delayed, I don't trust them to deliver it when they say they will. Especially considering they are still missing planets and cities in SC.

[Majestic12]

I don't know about the US but in the EU ToS don't supersede any laws, many of these clauses just might be void.

This is true. I touched on it a while back in this thread, but CIG's ToS cannot override EU or Australian consumer law for instance.

The only place where people are royally fucked is the U.S.

That said, should the game bomb now, Chris has a lot more to worry about than lawsuits. See: Death threats, IRL stalking and people showing up at his doorstep. NMS style x1000.

[Easo]

There is obviously going to be some delay due to working from home, but players wont ever have access to the beta anyway, they have already mentioned players should be happy enough with the progress when they do an update about it.

Oh hey look, the Kenn is back.
So tell us what do you think about the whole making roadmap for the roadmap fiasko?
Please, try to avoid using the usual mantra of "fans wanted it, backers are ok with waiting, the game is huuuuge, etc."

[oplawlz]

That said, should the game bomb now, Chris has a lot more to worry about than lawsuits. See: Death threats, IRL stalking and people showing up at his doorstep. NMS style x1000.

I'm sure he'll cry hard about it while rolling around in all the money he's bilked gullible people for.

[Cracked]

I'm sure he'll cry hard about it while rolling around in all the money he's bilked gullible people for.

Don't give him too much credit, I wouldn't be surprised if his treasure of a wife burnt through that money in a few years and they tried pulling another scam.

[kenn9530]

Oh hey look, the Kenn is back.
So tell us what do you think about the whole making roadmap for the roadmap fiasko?
Please, try to avoid using the usual mantra of "fans wanted it, backers are ok with waiting, the game is huuuuge, etc."

Its up to the company with what they want to do with a roadmap, its not like they needed to provide one in the first place as they already give plenty of updates on the development, the CiG devs already stated that many should be pleased with the progress when they get their hands on the roadmap anyway.

A roadmap is not really a priority, making the game is more important than saying this and that is a certain amount complete, you will be waiting regardless of a roadmap or not.

[sopeonaroap]

Its up to the company with what they want to do with a roadmap, its not like they needed to provide one in the first place as they already give plenty of updates on the development, the CiG devs already stated that many should be pleased with the progress when they get their hands on the roadmap anyway.

A roadmap is not really a priority, making the game is more important than saying this and that is a certain amount complete, you will be waiting regardless of a roadmap or not.

There's no need to defend a company that was given $300,000,000 to make a game nearly a decade ago. THEY said they'd do X, then they didn't do X. Then they went silent for MONTHS longer than they said they would. They're still saying that the SQ42 video delay was editing or whatever made up horseshit they came up with. They even specifically said that covid-19 hasn't affected them much but in the last CM post about the SQ42 video they kinda tried to work that in as an excuse.

In a year where they're on pace to shatter revenue, they should at least do what they said they were. We're so far past the point of them deserving any benefit of the doubt it's crazy this project hasn't been shut down with litigation. We were supposed to see SQ42 in beta this year and now it's looking like that will be pushed back 3 quarters.

They're simply not good at doing what they're getting money for. A team of skyrim modders could outperform them for 10% of the money.

Christ Roberts is nothing but dead weight at this point. He's served his purpose but the time has come for him to step down, go decorate his newly purchased $3M mansion and let someone competent helm the ship

Otherwise, SC is doomed

[Elim Garak]

Imagine the CEO of a company telling shareholders that the roadmap is not important, the company doing the company thing is way more important than that, that they will be waiting for their profits regardless of the roadmap, so they should shut up and wait.

News next day: "CEO of the company X fired"

[Easo]

Its up to the company with what they want to do with a roadmap, its not like they needed to provide one in the first place as they already give plenty of updates on the development, the CiG devs already stated that many should be pleased with the progress when they get their hands on the roadmap anyway.

A roadmap is not really a priority, making the game is more important than saying this and that is a certain amount complete, you will be waiting regardless of a roadmap or not.

The whole point was that few moments ago CIG promised a better clarity in the status of game's development and improved communications, was it not? That they will provide more updates on progress?

Also, it does not really cost dev time to make roadmap, that is what project managers are for. And when you try to hype a roadmap for roadmap, well... You have lost a point somewhere.

The internet's reaction shows very clearly what they think, forums, Reddit, news sites, etc.
And no, you can't say "it's small part of community". Reddit post with 1.3k replies shows a better overall view of what people think than you.
CIG fucked up. It is that simple. And they should own the fuckup. It is not rocket science or your holy grail of server meshing, it is a piece of paper with a list on it, with some dates added.

[Gorsameth]

The whole point was that few moments ago CIG promised a better clarity in the status of game's development and improved communications, was it not? That they will provide more updates on progress?

Also, it does not really cost dev time to make roadmap, that is what project managers are for. And when you try to hype a roadmap for roadmap, well... You have lost a point somewhere.

The internet's reaction shows very clearly what they think, forums, Reddit, news sites, etc.
And no, you can't say "it's small part of community". Reddit post with 1.3k replies shows a better overall view of what people think than you.
CIG fucked up. It is that simple. And they should own the fuckup. It is not rocket science or your holy grail of server meshing, it is a piece of paper with a list on it, with some dates added.

Sharing the real roadmap would show just how far away SQ42 is.
Can a company own up to their own fuckup when doing so could end the company (and CIG will go under at some point in the future if the money stream dries up), or is the only option to keep lying and lying in an attempt to hide the truth of how bad progress actually is?

Why is CiG acting this way about SQ42 when the game should be getting somewhat closed to finished?
Because there is no game.

[Katchii]

Sharing the real roadmap would show just how far away SQ42 is.
Can a company own up to their own fuckup when doing so could end the company (and CIG will go under at some point in the future if the money stream dries up), or is the only option to keep lying and lying in an attempt to hide the truth of how bad progress actually is?

Why is CiG acting this way about SQ42 when the game should be getting somewhat closed to finished?
Because there is no game.

The thing is, this game is crowdfunded, the community giving the money are the shareholders, technically. You have to be transparent with them otherwise they shut you down. As many have already said, the problem is that the fanatical SC/SQ42 community is so blinded by all the shinies the team puts out that they're not being remotely objective about this project and throwing money at CIG left and right.

CIG is not being held accountable, because the people who should be holding them accountable actually support what they're doing, apparently.

So even if what you said is true, that there is no game (which I honestly think is closer to the truth than whatever CIG is trying to spew), the people that SHOULD care and that should be crucifying CIG for it, are PRAISING and DEFENDING them.

[kenn9530]

The whole point was that few moments ago CIG promised a better clarity in the status of game's development and improved communications, was it not? That they will provide more updates on progress?

Also, it does not really cost dev time to make roadmap, that is what project managers are for. And when you try to hype a roadmap for roadmap, well... You have lost a point somewhere.

The internet's reaction shows very clearly what they think, forums, Reddit, news sites, etc.
And no, you can't say "it's small part of community". Reddit post with 1.3k replies shows a better overall view of what people think than you.
CIG fucked up. It is that simple. And they should own the fuckup. It is not rocket science or your holy grail of server meshing, it is a piece of paper with a list on it, with some dates added.

It is actually a small part of the community, even 1.3k is nothing in the numbers and the main area to post would be spectrum where you more likely to get a dev response, CiG didnt say when they were going to give an updated roadmap so they can put one out when they feel it is correct.

They never hyped anything to do with the roadmap, they just said they will put one out when it is ready.

The thing is, this game is crowdfunded, the community giving the money are the shareholders, technically. You have to be transparent with them otherwise they shut you down. As many have already said, the problem is that the fanatical SC/SQ42 community is so blinded by all the shinies the team puts out that they're not being remotely objective about this project and throwing money at CIG left and right.

CIG is not being held accountable, because the people who should be holding them accountable actually support what they're doing, apparently.

So even if what you said is true, that there is no game (which I honestly think is closer to the truth than whatever CIG is trying to spew), the people that SHOULD care and that should be crucifying CIG for it, are PRAISING and DEFENDING them.

Being crowdfunded is nothing to do with who the shareholders are, the shareholders are the ones who own part of the company not the backers who donated money so no the backers are not shareholders.

The backers who have realistic expectations of the game are happy to wait until its ready, its not like there are not other games to play in the meantime, we dont want it to be rushed out for the sake of it.

[Katchii]

Being crowdfunded is nothing to do with who the shareholders are, the shareholders are the ones who own part of the company not the backers who donated money so no the backers are not shareholders.

The backers who have realistic expectations of the game are happy to wait until its ready, its not like there are not other games to play in the meantime, we dont want it to be rushed out for the sake of it.

Thanks for that, you actually pointed out exactly what the issue is. Since the backers are not shareholders, this company has no legit stakeholders that actually care about the game getting released.

Which is exactly why I don't think this game will ever truly get completed. Because people like you are fine with the way things are going and willingly sign up to give your money to a company that flat out tells you they will take your money with no assurances that they will fulfill their end of the bargain and that you're not likely to get your money back so long as the game is in development.

CIG has no reason whatsoever to actually complete these games, since they're already making money hand over fist and can do whatever the fuck they want so long as the game is still "in development."

What "realistic expectations" are you referring to? Because IMO, it's a realistic expectation to hold a company accountable to the dates they provide rather than just be OK with them changing plans AGAIN. It's also realistic to think that a company who has any sense of wtf they're doing when it comes to both development and project management to have at least a Beta stage game after ~6 years of development and ~$300 million dollars poured into. Or at the very least, have all of the core systems in place after that much time, with simply building the rest of the game on top of it being what you need to do to complete it.

Your comment about having other games to play in the meantime is kind of ironic because you're saying it's OK for a company to take your money, be in development purgatory for who knows how long because other companies actually use their money, stick to their time lines and actually release games for you to play.

[kenn9530]

Thanks for that, you actually pointed out exactly what the issue is. Since the backers are not shareholders, this company has no legit stakeholders that actually care about the game getting released.

Which is exactly why I don't think this game will ever truly get completed. Because people like you are fine with the way things are going and willingly sign up to give your money to a company that flat out tells you they will take your money with no assurances that they will fulfill their end of the bargain and that you're not likely to get your money back so long as the game is in development.

CIG has no reason whatsoever to actually complete these games, since they're already making money hand over fist and can do whatever the fuck they want so long as the game is still "in development."

What "realistic expectations" are you referring to? Because IMO, it's a realistic expectation to hold a company accountable to the dates they provide rather than just be OK with them changing plans AGAIN. It's also realistic to think that a company who has any sense of wtf they're doing when it comes to both development and project management to have at least a Beta stage game after ~6 years of development and ~$300 million dollars poured into. Or at the very least, have all of the core systems in place after that much time, with simply building the rest of the game on top of it being what you need to do to complete it.

Your comment about having other games to play in the meantime is kind of ironic because you're saying it's OK for a company to take your money, be in development purgatory for who knows how long because other companies actually use their money, stick to their time lines and actually release games for you to play.

The have not stated any dates since way early in development so there is no dates other than SQ42 beta to look at and even the CiG devs have stated on spectrum backers should be happy enough with the new roadmap.

As soon as the game scope was changed into an full MMO it was a 10 year project simple as that, if you thought it could be made any faster then you were a little delusional. Your not forced to give CiG money its up to you and you take the risk of any issues that comes along with the project, CiG have already proven they are delivering the game they promised.

CiG have plenty reason to complete the game, it will make money when its released as all the money now is used for development so you saying there is no reason to release it is actually completely false.

[Gorsameth]

CiG have plenty reason to complete the game, it will make money when its released as all the money now is used for development so you saying there is no reason to release it is actually completely false.

Glad to hear Chris Roberts is working for free on this and not getting a CEO level salary for as long as the project is in development.

oh wait...

[1001]

The have not stated any dates since way early in development so there is no dates other than SQ42 beta to look at and even the CiG devs have stated on spectrum backers should be happy enough with the new roadmap.

Do you not see why this might be a problem

As soon as the game scope was changed into an full MMO it was a 10 year project simple as that, if you thought it could be made any faster then you were a little delusional. Your not forced to give CiG money its up to you and you take the risk of any issues that comes along with the project, CiG have already proven they are delivering the game they promised.

They just forgot to mention it is all. Oops....

And as has been pointed out before, Roberts claimed more money would allow for more staff, a bigger game and faster delivery...

CiG have plenty reason to complete the game, it will make money when its released as all the money now is used for development so you saying there is no reason to release it is actually completely false.

Or not.

Batman Arkham City - $600 million from 12.5 million sales
Star Citizen - $300 million from 1.5 million sales

[Katchii]

The have not stated any dates since way early in development so there is no dates other than SQ42 beta to look at and even the CiG devs have stated on spectrum backers should be happy enough with the new roadmap.

It's not up to CIG to decide whether they're backers are happy or not. And based on what I've seen online, they're not all happy.

As soon as the game scope was changed into an full MMO it was a 10 year project simple as that, if you thought it could be made any faster then you were a little delusional. Your not forced to give CiG money its up to you and you take the risk of any issues that comes along with the project, CiG have already proven they are delivering the game they promised.

They're 6 years and $300 million into this and still don't have all of their core systems developed and no dates or even a time frame for when they'll be done.

Also, there is no game yet. Backers get to play what is currently available for testing but, it's and incomplete pre-alpha version with core systems not done, buggy mess that can't support more than ~50 people online at once. This is not the game even you signed up for. It's part of it, sure, and you are obviously happy with it so far but it's disingenuous to say that the version of the game that is playable now is the game they promised you.

CiG have plenty reason to complete the game, it will make money when its released as all the money now is used for development so you saying there is no reason to release it is actually completely false.

All the money is not being used on development. The fact that any money whatsoever is being given to Chris Roberts, who has proven that he's incapable of taking any project he starts to completion, shows that it's not. That's just my opinion though, but honestly, the fact that he's getting a bloated CEO salary from this shows it's not ALL for development it's also padding his pockets.

With that said, why would they move forward with actually truly trying to finish development on this game when they as a company have made $300 million while in development and people like you are perfectly happy throwing money at them for it? Their business model so far, of promising the world and delivering pretty pixels, while moving at a snails pace and not delivering on multiple promises, and being in development purgatory has made them $300 million. NOT finishing the game is literally making them millions. Once the game is complete all of the money rolling in because of them being in development dries up. They won't make nearly as much money on release, because everyone who backed will now have the game and therefore won't need to give any more money to play the released version and the number of people that will actually buy the game after that, that didn't back it previously, will be relatively low.

[Rennadrel]

I think kenn is still one of the few people who keeps trying to justify the delays and the slow process. Whether it be on Reddit or on the SC Facebook feed, people are annoyed, people are mad that things are taking so long. The problem is that you have whales (which no doubt kenn probably is, since he's obviously shilling the game hard), who keep feeding the devs money which gives them the false sense of security that everything is happy and fine among the community. Online the opposite is true.

[Henako]

I think kenn is still one of the few people who keeps trying to justify the delays and the slow process. Whether it be on Reddit or on the SC Facebook feed, people are annoyed, people are mad that things are taking so long. The problem is that you have whales (which no doubt kenn probably is, since he's obviously shilling the game hard), who keep feeding the devs money which gives them the false sense of security that everything is happy and fine among the community. Online the opposite is true.

He's admitted to spending at least $1000, which really helps color his ardent* defense of the game and the developers in all things, no matter how much they fuck up or how little they're shown to care about their community.

*read: batshit crazy, fanatical

[Orange Joe]

I don't understand why you guys continue to engage with Kenn? I mean I don't think the game deserves as much hate as some throw on it, but it's clear he isn't being honest when replying.