Warrior DPS horrible

[Roship]

If anyone watched Asmon on his normal nathria raid on Tuesday, you'll know just how bad warriors are currently, Asmon is by no means a bad player and some would say is actually pretty good at playing his warrior. He could barely manage 3k DPS, while mcconnel (ret pally) was pushing closer to 6k, most of the MM hunters were doing just as much if not more.

So suffice to say warrior dps and tanking is broken currently. Sure they might improve with gear in 6 months or so but until then no one will be playing them.

I am raiding with a CE guild, as I did during BoD/EP, but breaked during nyalotha. I was in the top 10 during every boss fight on our normal clear of nathria. Generally the top 5. As arms, our dps is perfectly fine. I did have a lot of 99 parses at 184 ilvl though. I was absolutely at the 3k+ mark every pull, generally 3.5k+ every kill. For any warriors to be below the 3k mark is just them being a subpar player. Fury however atm, is absolutely dogshit.

[Bigbazz]

I am raiding with a CE guild, as I did during BoD/EP, but breaked during nyalotha. I was in the top 10 during every boss fight on our normal clear of nathria. Generally the top 5. As arms, our dps is perfectly fine. I did have a lot of 99 parses at 184 ilvl though. I was absolutely at the 3k+ mark every pull, generally 3.5k+ every kill. For any warriors to be below the 3k mark is just them being a subpar player. Fury however atm, is absolutely dogshit.

I mean your personal experience in your personal raid isn't that relevant when we have masses of data neatly displayed

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#

I've got a buddy in a decent guild getting top parses as Warrior and is pretty much bottom of the dps in his guild, that is with his parses being among the best in the raid % wise. Warrior is weak in PVE at the moment, and to be honest the only reason I'm not complaining more is because I'm not invested, I'm not raiding (haven't since Nighthold). I can say though I'm thankful to have friends to play M+ with, as otherwise I'd be sitting there all night getting declined to keys.

Warriors are only in a good place in PVP, really everywhere else it's pretty sad. Arms has nice cleave though, serviceable AOE burst if you spec for it (but nowhere near the all-star specs like MM).

[madmossy]

I am raiding with a CE guild, as I did during BoD/EP, but breaked during nyalotha. I was in the top 10 during every boss fight on our normal clear of nathria. Generally the top 5. As arms, our dps is perfectly fine. I did have a lot of 99 parses at 184 ilvl though. I was absolutely at the 3k+ mark every pull, generally 3.5k+ every kill. For any warriors to be below the 3k mark is just them being a subpar player. Fury however atm, is absolutely dogshit.

3.5k is middle of the pack, borderline low end when you have the likes of unholy dk or boomkin pushing out 5k+

And the colossal 5% buff Fury is getting in a couple days well, that's gonna translate to a massive 150 - 200 DPS extra still leaving at the bottom.

I honestly fail to see how Blizzard cannot balance the numbers better, its a giant database, they must have access to software like simcraft where they could tweak numbers and get results instantly. Numbers all line up but "playing" a class results in worse/higher DPS, tweak them again. It's literally something that could be done within a week or less, not like its rocket science!

If Class A is doing 100 DPS, Class B is doing 100 DPS and Class C is doing 80 DPS, give Class C a 25% buff, rerun the tests, if Class C is now doing 110 DPS, knock them back 10%, see where it lands. If Blizzard establish a baseline of what they expect a class with a specific item level to do damage wise then they can easily balance from there.

[Bigbazz]

3.5k is middle of the pack, borderline low end when you have the likes of unholy dk or boomkin pushing out 5k+

And the colossal 5% buff Fury is getting in a couple days well, that's gonna translate to a massive 150 - 200 DPS extra still leaving at the bottom.

I honestly fail to see how Blizzard cannot balance the numbers better, its a giant database, they must have access to software like simcraft where they could tweak numbers and get results instantly. Numbers all line up but "playing" a class results in worse/higher DPS, tweak them again. It's literally something that could be done within a week or less, not like its rocket science!

If Class A is doing 100 DPS, Class B is doing 100 DPS and Class C is doing 80 DPS, give Class C a 25% buff, rerun the tests, if Class C is now doing 110 DPS, knock them back 10%, see where it lands. If Blizzard establish a baseline of what they expect a class with a specific item level to do damage wise then they can easily balance from there.

I think there are probably too many moving parts within Blizzard and their process doesn't allow them to just tweak it as they go along, I'd also bet there is a bit of "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" kinda stuff going on, along with a long list of things the devs have to work on to a deadline alongside considering spec balance.

Blizzard balancing has never been good anyway, you have to wonder if there is some intention behind the whacky state of class/spec balance and the swing of the pendulum from patch to patch. If you look at M+ then Warrior isn't just bad because of lower dps, but also because the dungeons are much more friendly to ranged dps and classes with immunities/utility. Without overtuning the shit out of Warriors you're not going to make them an attractive dps class for pushing M+, you see lots of threads on the forums from people (aka melee dps that aren't rogues) complaining they don't get invites and it's a dungeon design issue.

If Blizzard's design process was more streamlined you'd surely have a guy who can say "tweak this, tweak that" or a guy who can say "yeah this mechanic will heavily favour immunities too much" or "this mechanic will be too punishing to melee" and be able to tune things in on the fly, not half assed changes after months of ignored feedback.

[Season2mask]

People say Fury is shit but I'm not having any issues...

[Shedaar]

If warrior dps is horrible then go ahead and check havoc dh.
You will feel atleast few % better.

[Bigbazz]

People say Fury is shit but I'm not having any issues...

Fury is the lowest dps spec in the game, Unholy Dk's do about 2x the dps by comparison. That makes it pretty bad, of course all specs are fine if you're just doing world quests and other casual content.

If warrior dps is horrible then go ahead and check havoc dh.
You will feel atleast few % better.

Been doing a load of M+ with a DH, yeah it's pretty bad but they have decent aoe and good tools. If you think Havoc is bad then go take a look at Fury Warrior, DH is pretty close with Arms on performance which isn't great but is in shared company with a few other specs a tier above Fury. Hopefully Blizzard can fix the mess, the current announced tuning tweaks won't do that though I don't think.

[nocturnus]

I am raiding with a CE guild, as I did during BoD/EP, but breaked during nyalotha. I was in the top 10 during every boss fight on our normal clear of nathria. Generally the top 5. As arms, our dps is perfectly fine. I did have a lot of 99 parses at 184 ilvl though. I was absolutely at the 3k+ mark every pull, generally 3.5k+ every kill. For any warriors to be below the 3k mark is just them being a subpar player. Fury however atm, is absolutely dogshit.

3k is horrible dude. Do some research before you flex with crappy dps.

- - - Updated - - -

If anyone watched Asmon on his normal nathria raid on Tuesday, you'll know just how bad warriors are currently, Asmon is by no means a bad player and some would say is actually pretty good at playing his warrior. He could barely manage 3k DPS, while mcconnel (ret pally) was pushing closer to 6k, most of the MM hunters were doing just as much if not more.

So suffice to say warrior dps and tanking is broken currently. Sure they might improve with gear in 6 months or so but until then no one will be playing them.

Aye and I doubt those buffs will fix it, but we'll see.

[deenman]

I think there are probably too many moving parts within Blizzard and their process doesn't allow them to just tweak it as they go along, I'd also bet there is a bit of "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" kinda stuff going on, along with a long list of things the devs have to work on to a deadline alongside considering spec balance.

Blizzard balancing has never been good anyway, you have to wonder if there is some intention behind the whacky state of class/spec balance and the swing of the pendulum from patch to patch. If you look at M+ then Warrior isn't just bad because of lower dps, but also because the dungeons are much more friendly to ranged dps and classes with immunities/utility. Without overtuning the shit out of Warriors you're not going to make them an attractive dps class for pushing M+, you see lots of threads on the forums from people (aka melee dps that aren't rogues) complaining they don't get invites and it's a dungeon design issue.

If Blizzard's design process was more streamlined you'd surely have a guy who can say "tweak this, tweak that" or a guy who can say "yeah this mechanic will heavily favour immunities too much" or "this mechanic will be too punishing to melee" and be able to tune things in on the fly, not half assed changes after months of ignored feedback.

I dont recall a time when multiple specs were doing more than double the dps of others,we usualy had 1 spec that outshines the rest,but not by double+

[Gref]

if you think doing 3k and not seeing the problem thinking your dps is fine, the people in your raid must be utter dogshit.
While I was reading icy veins; port warrior was C-tier on their tanking list and they said:

"With all that said, we believe that Protection Warriors will continue to climb ranks and will get better with better gear, due to how well they scale up with the secondary stats."

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/mythic-tank-tier-list

the last time I said/tried to explain about scaling, I was shat upon pages after pages that there is no longer a scaling problem with warriors, that blizzard fixed it a long time ago. So the above statement can either mean that there really is both a scaling and tuning problem at the moment or icy-veins don't know better than mmo-c users.

[deenman]

if you think doing 3k and not seeing the problem thinking your dps is fine, the people in your raid must be utter dogshit.
While I was reading icy veins; port warrior was C-tier on their tanking list and they said:

"With all that said, we believe that Protection Warriors will continue to climb ranks and will get better with better gear, due to how well they scale up with the secondary stats."

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/mythic-tank-tier-list

the last time I said/tried to explain about scaling, I was shat upon pages after pages that there is no longer a scaling problem with warriors, that blizzard fixed it a long time ago. So the above statement can either mean that there really is both a scaling and tuning problem at the moment or icy-veins don't know better than mmo-c users.

well,in the past warriors had scaling issues because of how rage worked,the better gear you had the more rage you generated,so warriors always had the issue(until cataclsym),of starting out weak and ending up either fine or strong

stat scaling is a different thing,its the reason why shadowpriests got nerfed every damn patch since void form came in the picture,its why ele shamans are super weird,they either start ok-ish and end up dogshit,or they start dogshit and end up dogshit lol,i rly wish they would just change ele shaman somehow,maybe make lava burst act like chaos bolt and get bonus from crit

[Gref]

@deenman I am missing a few gcd here and there without all the haste that I had in bfa but yeah whatever, I rolled an spriest. best decision ever. should not have waited 16 years.

[deenman]

@deenman I am missing a few gcd here and there without all the haste that I had in bfa but yeah whatever, I rolled an spriest. best decision ever. should not have waited 16 years.

oh yeah,the stat reset is always a thing with new expansions,you feel weird,also bfa was the most extreme expansion ever when it came to secondary stats because of the corruption gear,and now sl not only has reset that but we also will have much harsher diminishing returns on stats,you will never feel like bfa again

[meowfurion]

Cry me a river, warriors.

Come back when you've lived that feral druid life. You guys CONSISTENTLY end up at the top 5 DPS wise, at least one of your specs, every expansion. ABLOOBLOOBLOO!

[LazuOG]

Cry me a river, warriors.

Come back when you've lived that feral druid life. You guys CONSISTENTLY end up at the top 5 DPS wise, at least one of your specs, every expansion. ABLOOBLOOBLOO!

Boomy is usually a top performer too. So you also theoretically always have a decent specc to fall back to. Warrior currently has no top 5 specc in all departments of pve, even when counting it's tank specc.

[Gref]

oh yeah,the stat reset is always a thing with new expansions,you feel weird,also bfa was the most extreme expansion ever when it came to secondary stats because of the corruption gear,and now sl not only has reset that but we also will have much harsher diminishing returns on stats,you will never feel like bfa again

don't say things like that, they will start harassing you for being an idiot etc that there is just tuning problem. not a scaling problem etc. even after one explains how haste, crit scalings work.

[kenn9530]

3k is horrible dude. Do some research before you flex with crappy dps.

- - - Updated - - -


Aye and I doubt those buffs will fix it, but we'll see.

you do realise that in a raid 3.5k-4k is about the normal dps for an arms warrior on average, and thats from actual data from the raid encounters on heroic parses. In dungeons they will be fine as you pop cds and bosses dont live too long for dps to drop.

Most other classes are 1k dps higher on most bosses so warrior is around the bottom for performance. For pretty much every other class is ranges between 4.5-5k ish depending on boss

[madmossy]

Cry me a river, warriors.

Come back when you've lived that feral druid life. You guys CONSISTENTLY end up at the top 5 DPS wise, at least one of your specs, every expansion. ABLOOBLOOBLOO!

And yet ironically after todays nerfs to MM, Unholy and Balance, Feral druids are going to be top 3 or higher. They were already top 5 in Nathria.

[nocturnus]

you do realise that in a raid 3.5k-4k is about the normal dps for an arms warrior on average, and thats from actual data from the raid encounters on heroic parses. In dungeons they will be fine as you pop cds and bosses dont live too long for dps to drop.

Most other classes are 1k dps higher on most bosses so warrior is around the bottom for performance. For pretty much every other class is ranges between 4.5-5k ish depending on boss

That's the point, how can you have trouble understanding this? 3-3.5k dps is horrible - not horrible for a warrior, but horrible in general. But unfortunately that's pretty much our ceiling if we sweat our balls off and have the right gear.

Meanwhile every other class is facestomping the keyboard and pushing 5k dps.

It's LITERALLY impossible to find groups as anything other than tank.

[Garkanh]

Just a thought.

If warrior dps is as horrible as people claim, wouldn't it theoreticly be beneficial for the raid group as a whole, if every warrior went necrolord?

I mean, how big of a difference is the other covenant abilities dps wise for the warrior, personally, compared to necrolord? 5%?

But necrolords covenant abillity gives two allies +10% crit chance if i recall correctly (i may verry well be mistaken). Would that buff to your group members not result in a higher overall gain for the group, if you could utilize it in a way where it always benefitted your groups two highest damage dealers?
Does sims even calculate the benefit the necrolord abillity grants your party members?