If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[TheRevenantHero]

Wouldn't most people be more familiar with the playable Maghar who ride wolves, wear bone jewelry, have bone totems, and have racials like "Savage Blood"?

I mean, this is their heritage armor;

You'll say that mag'har are too primitive but want Vulpera to be tinkers. The double standard is stifling.

[Triceron]

Wouldn't most people be more familiar with the playable Maghar who ride wolves, wear bone jewelry, have bone totems, and have racials like "Savage Blood"?

I mean, this is their heritage armor;

Well if we're basing it on their heritage armor, then I don't see that spiky horned warrior being a Monk, Priest, Mage, Rogue or Shaman either.

I don't see what your point is. Heritage armor is what the race identifies is, not what classes they should look like. That's why Claw Packs would fit best as a Goblin Heritage armor





They could still be any class they want considering it's just an Engineering visual aesthetic, which suits the Goblin race perfectly.

It's actually why Engineering fits best as a profession, because it shows that the Technology theme isn't exclusive to any one class.

[Teriz]

If any race can be an engineer and build/use gnomish/goblin engineering devices as is, I see zero lore reason why other races couldn't be tinker class even if the lore of it lies in gnomes/goblins.

The main reason being that engineering (profession) has nothing to do with the Tinker class.

The other reason being that what the champion (i.e. the player) does has nothing to do with what everyone else of their race does. In other words, you being a Troll Shaman who picks up the engineering profession doesn’t mean that the entire troll race also picked up the engineering profession.

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You'll say that mag'har are too primitive but want Vulpera to be tinkers. The double standard is stifling.

The Vulpera are a new race, use the Goblin skeleton, and are the perfect size. They also created a class of gunners who use alchemical bombs. The Maghar couldn’t do that with the remnants of Iron Horde tech.

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Well if we're basing it on their heritage armor, then I don't see that spiky horned warrior being a Monk, Priest, Mage, Rogue or Shaman either.

There’s plenty of examples of primitive Priests, Monks, Mages, Shaman, etc. I’d wager though that the majority of Mag’har are Warriors.

I don't see what your point is.

The point is that Mag’har Orcs aren’t advanced enough to be Tinkers. That pic of Gazlowe’s claw pack backs that assessment up. I really couldn’t picture an Orc with something like that on their back.

[TheRevenantHero]

The main reason being that engineering (profession) has nothing to do with the Tinker class.

The other reason being that what the champion (i.e. the player) does has nothing to do with what everyone else of their race does. In other words, you being a Troll Shaman who picks up the engineering profession doesn’t mean that the entire troll race also picked up the engineering profession.

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The Vulpera are a new race, use the Goblin skeleton, and are the perfect size. They also created a class of gunners who use alchemical bombs. The Maghar couldn’t do that with the remnants of Iron Horde tech.

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There’s plenty of examples of primitive Priests, Monks, Mages, Shaman, etc. I’d wager though that the majority of Mag’har are Warriors.



The point is that Mag’har Orcs aren’t advanced enough to be Tinkers. That pic of Gazlowe’s claw pack backs that assessment up. I really couldn’t picture an Orc with something like that on their back.

It literally doesn't matter if they share the skeleton. Mag'har used tinkering items in WoD but you're saying they're too primitive. Vulpera are literally as technologically inclined as trolls from a lore standpoint. Whereas Mag'har actually have a lore precedent for using items created by engineering/tinkering. So your argument is utterly illogical.

[Teriz]

It literally doesn't matter if they share the skeleton. Mag'har used tinkering items in WoD but you're saying they're too primitive. Vulpera are literally as technologically inclined as trolls from a lore standpoint. Whereas Mag'har actually have a lore precedent for using items created by engineering/tinkering. So your argument is utterly illogical.

Using items from engineering has nothing to do with the Tinker hero concept. Their doesn’t mean much in this case either. They’ve clearly reverted back to their old ways.

[TheRevenantHero]

Using items from engineering has nothing to do with the Tinker hero concept. Their doesn’t mean much in this case either. They’ve clearly reverted back to their old ways.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Tinker. If someone is capable to using and building engineering gadgets then they can absolutely be a Tinker. Also, there is no lore dictating that Mag'har went back to their old ways, so that's literally just your headcanon. Meanwhile, Vulpera have shown NO technological interest in the lore as a race so them being tinkers is nothing but you trying to force the idea that Tinker should only be the small races despite the fact that would likely cause the class to be a gigantic failure.

[Triceron]

There’s plenty of examples of primitive Priests, Monks, Mages, Shaman, etc. I’d wager though that the majority of Mag’har are Warriors.

Sure, and the Tinker wouldn't be the majority, much like Mag'har Mages, Priests and Rogues. I think that's fine.

That pic of Gazlowe’s claw pack backs that assessment up. I really couldn’t picture an Orc with something like that on their back.

Why not consider the Claw Pack as a Goblin heritage armor backpiece instead? All the problems you're bringing up are solved. All of them.

[Teriz]

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Tinker. If someone is capable to using and building engineering gadgets then they can absolutely be a Tinker. Also, there is no lore dictating that Mag'har went back to their old ways, so that's literally just your headcanon. Meanwhile, Vulpera have shown NO technological interest in the lore as a race so them being tinkers is nothing but you trying to force the idea that Tinker should only be the small races despite the fact that would likely cause the class to be a gigantic failure.

And again, just because the champion (I.e. the player) happens to be a Mag’har Orc taking up engineering doesn’t mean that the entire Mag’har race has also picked up engineering.

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Why not consider the Claw Pack as a Goblin heritage armor backpiece instead?

Because based on precedent, Blizzard brings all the aesthetics and abilities from their WC3 concepts into the expansion classes.

All the problems you're bringing up are solved. All of them.

What problems? I’m not seeing any problems with the claw pack at all.

[TheRevenantHero]

And again, just because the champion (I.e. the player) happens to be a Mag’har Orc taking up engineering doesn’t mean that the entire Mag’har race has also picked up engineering.

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I’m not seeing any problems with the claw pack at all.

That is, once again, nothing but headcanon. you cannot prove what you're saying is true. So since there is no lore saying otherwise, Mag'har are more than able to become tinkers.

[Teriz]

That is, once again, nothing but headcanon. you cannot prove what you're saying is true. So since there is no lore saying otherwise, Mag'har are more than able to become tinkers.

So you actually think that since the player can be of any race, and the player has the option to take up the engineering profession, that ALL races in WoW are also taking up the engineering profession like the champion MIGHT be?

[TheRevenantHero]

So you actually think that since the player can be of any race, and the player has the option to take up the engineering profession, that ALL races in WoW are also taking up the engineering profession like the champion MIGHT be?

Yes. There is nothing in lore suggesting that certain professions are impossible for certain races. Literally nothing.

[Teriz]

Yes. There is nothing in lore suggesting that certain professions are impossible for certain races. Literally nothing.

But the champion isn’t a normal member of a race. Just because the champion does it doesn’t mean the entire race is capable of doing it.

[TheRevenantHero]

But the champion isn’t a normal member of a race. Just because the champion does it doesn’t mean the entire race is capable of doing it.

Being a champion is purely a lore thing when it comes to the campaign. There are PLENTY of NPCs that are tinkers and not champions. So your comment about the champion is quite literally invalid.

[Teriz]

Being a champion is purely a lore thing when it comes to the campaign. There are PLENTY of NPCs that are tinkers and not champions. So your comment about the champion is quite literally invalid.

Okay, but do you have examples of Tinkers from EVERY race? That was your original argument.

[TheRevenantHero]

Okay, but do you have examples of Tinkers from EVERY race? That was your original argument.

Grand Artificer Romuul. Pathaelon the Calculator. Various blood elf NPCs I'm not gonna list all the names of. Oculeth. Fineous Darkvire.

Just a few examples. Though I'm sure you're going to bend over backwards to say they're not tinkers purely because they're not gnomes or goblins.

[Diaphin]

No, the Tinker abilities are already present in WoW. The Claw Pack would be an attribute to the class, like Runeblades with DKs, Tattoos on Demon Hunters, or the garb of the Brewmaster.

So basically a transmog? There is no weapon category called runeblades in the actual game. There are weapons with dk runes on it which a DK can transmog. Tattoos are a purely cosmetic and optional option for DHs and the garb of the Brewmaster is a transmog set. Are you capable of understanding that you argue against your own point

I'm just pointing out how critical Metamorphosis was to the DH class concept. Again, it was so important that only one class could have it.

It was also critical for Warlocks. The whole Green Fire Quest Chain revolved on it and it was the core of the Demonology Warlocks rotation and gameplay. And in the end, they were willing to change warlocks just to make DHs still happen. Again, thats kind of an argument against you?

Considering that the orientation of the concept went from ranged to melee, it's far more than just a graphical change, it was a mechanical change as well. Again, totally absent from WoW until the DH class appeared.

Doesn't Illidan engage in melee combat as a boss while using methamorphosis? Seems like Blizz is perfectly fine changing class concepts to be closer to their iconic hero, who had guessed.

[quote]"Summon skeletons" wasn't a DK ability. Demon Hunters transforming into a hulking melee demon was a departure from the ranged creature we had grown to know and love since WC3. You can call this bogus if you wish, but those are the facts.

Summon undeads kind of was a DK ability

Uh, according to lore we had Chen Stormstout in Durator before WoW even began. In addition, we had an Orc who encountered Chen and whom was taught brewmaster stuff by him. It's the opening quest of Chens Wandering Kegs. In addition, we had the Draenei Monk trainer who was present when the Exodar crashed and helped heal and train the crash survivors.

Additionally we had Brewmasters and Monks in WoW long before MoP. The point is that those Brewmasters and Monks were clearly not the Brewmasters and Monks who form the WoW Monk class. The same could be said for all those "Tinkers" and "Tinkerers" currently in the game.

That is actually not an argument


[quote]It's only a problem if you think Maghar, a primitive race of wolf-riders should be part of a technological class, and them being in the class is worth dumping a concept that has been a major part of the class concept since the original hero in WC3.[quote]

Gnome Tinkers also don't use claw packs. Gnome Tinkers are also technologically closer to Draeneis, with a higher emphasis on laser weapons. So you are argueing in favor of making Tinkers a horde only, goblin only class?

[Triceron]

Because based on precedent, Blizzard brings all the aesthetics and abilities from their WC3 concepts into the expansion classes.

For an aesthetic piece we've only ever seen on Goblins? How do we know it has to do with the class and not just the Goblin race when we have Gnome and Dwarf Tinkers in WoW without a claw pack?

What problems? I’m not seeing any problems with the claw pack at all.

The problem being that you're arbitrarily and unnecessarily limiting Races with a technological background. I don't think a Clawpack necessarily fits Gnomes or Vulpera, and keeping it out of the Tinker class would work best for all potential races. It keeps the focus on the mechs instead.

[Diaphin]

What problems? I’m not seeing any problems with the claw pack at all.

The fact that you like them makes you look worse. They look stupid.

[Teriz]

Grand Artificer Romuul. Pathaelon the Calculator. Various blood elf NPCs I'm not gonna list all the names of. Oculeth. Fineous Darkvire.

Just a few examples. Though I'm sure you're going to bend over backwards to say they're not tinkers purely because they're not gnomes or goblins.

Well why would you think that Oculeth for example is a Tinker in the same vein as Mekkatorque or Blackfuse? He’s a telemancer, which means he specializes in portal magic.....

Or Pathealon the calculator... Why?

[Diaphin]

That's a fine opinion to have, but we have Blizzard's statements on the matter, so that's that.

No, these are simply fact about development which may explain blizzards choice not to include a new class and they still don't devalue Dark Ranger as a potential new class. And by god, they do nothing to make your point, as there is currently nothing indicating Blizz being interested in creating Tinkers as a class.

This is entirely your opinion.



Here's the opinion of the forum on the Tinker versus the more "popular" Necromancer concept;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

Really? A poll with limited participation on an inofficial fansite? Let me quite honest, I just don't give a shit about polls on inofficial fansites where half the votes for Tinkers are probably you under various aliases. I mean, you seem so obsessive that I am perfectly willing to believe that you would do that. Also, inofficial fansites are not an indicator of what Blizz is going to do. The fact that they seem to be highly uninterested in developing stories for Gnomes and Goblins is though.

Again, nothing more than your opinion. Thank you for sharing it.

Nope. It is actually an objective fact. We can look at the numbers of mechagnome and goblin characters and then take a guess on the goblins on how many actually never did the questchain and then again on how many skipped through the story of the quest chains. Which makes it unlikely that more than a small percentage of players ever actually played the storyline. The majority of people who are aware of the stories are probably people who read it up on Wowhead.

But then again, its you. And for you, everything that isn't agreeing with you is just a false opinion. Kinda like how the Quartering acts.

Well considering that there are story beats still left unresolved, the fact that Undermine was an important part in the development of vanilla WoW, and there's multiple looming threats that would require technological power, I think Gazlowe has a rather bright future in WoW.

Which is your opinion. The facts state that Gazlowe is currently a c-list npc with no consequent involvement in the narratve and not even an appereance in a cinematic or an unique model. He is literally just a random gnome in a classic transmog. And there are kind of no story beats involving the Goblins which seem to be anywhere close the main story and not a single threat looming which would require technological power, which outside of Draenei technology and Iron Horde Technology is in every single case depicted as inferior to magic.

1. The last three expansion classes were from WC3.
2. Tinker has the exact same background as the previous expansion classes.
3. None of the Tinker's abilities exist in engineering or the existing classes.
4. The Tinker hero is based on Warcraft lore.

It would seem that those facts drive people a little crazy. I don't know why.

Because you act like an entitled ass about it. It is fully on you and only you. You come off as if there is something deeply wrong with you and your personality. Few people is denying that tinkers are a potential candidate for a new class. The problem is solely you harassing and belittling everyone who is not aggreeing with your personal hype train or slightly disagreeing with your fantasies. You are the one creating drama here, the only one. You act like such a horrible, obnoxious and entitled person that I can't see anyone actually wanting to spend time with you. You seem incapable of the slightest act of self-reflection and noticing, that your horrible shitty attitude turns people hostile towards the concept itself out of pure spite, because they hate you and don't want you getting what you wish for, just because you act so horribly and toxic towards everyone who isn't hyping your ass off.

Another fact lost of some people is that Blizzard has traditionally kept out certain aspects of upcoming classes until those classes appear in WoW. For example, despite the various Monks in Azeroth, there was no Pandaren-based Monk character in WoW until MoP. We did get a hint with the Pandaren Monk companion pet, but that's it. None of the Brewmaster's abilities were present in WoW. In the case of the Tinker, the abilities are present in WoW, but it would make sense that there is no claw pack.

They didn't though. Death Knights and Demon Hunters were common concepts for enemies during all of WoW, they just broadened their skillset to account for multiple specs. This is literally you conspiracy thinking. Not to forget that we have no case of Gnomes utilizing claw packs.

Uh what? The point is that a consistent 20% mount speed boost is infinitely more beneficial than a cooldown.

Which is really only the case when you are a world quest hero, who is predominantly doing open world content. That comment actually prove that you aren't even in the position to ask for a new class or participate in any fanfiction of how a class should look like, because you play the game on the lowest possible level. Literally fighting world quest enemies with engineer gadgets would be enough for you to play out your fantasy. If you would do any content outside of maybe normal dungeons, you would know how stupid that sentence make you look like.

Which is the basis for the entire WoW Monk class.

No? It literally is not? Monks aren't even using weapons in their animations? Lol l2p git gud?

[quote]It wouldn't take up a back slot, since it's an ability, not an item.

It isn't though. And Gnome tinkers as well as most ingame goblin tinkers traditionally don't utilize claw packs.