[TV] WandaVision

[rogueMatthias]

There's a set photo out of the lab Visions body was in. It seems more than clear he was being discected and experimented on by Sword

[blankfaced]

1> Earth-616 has no bearing on Earth-199999. They might use stuff, they might change stuff, they might completely overwrite stuff. The comics give you absolutely zero reliable information when it comes to anything in the MCU, because they literally aren't the same universe.

2> It's less about capability (I've argued elsewhere that I think Wanda's the most powerful character in the MCU right now, other than perhaps Dr. Strange), and more just that none of this makes sense if it's Wanda and none of it looks like it's Wanda. Her powers have a distinct "look", and the Hex doesn't line up with that. Also, for something that doesn't make sense; why the broadcast? Even if Wanda wanted a perfect Sitcom life for her and her hubby, the broadcast doesn't make sense. Nor does it being the "wrong Pietro", even if we ignore that she didn't try and bring Pietro back and was pretty shocked and upset by it.



Darcy literally said she called it the Hex because its border is hexagonal in shape. I gotta assume the writers intend the double meaning, but that double meaning isn't (at least, explicitly) diegetic.



Seems like a good time to mention that Magneto is not Wanda and Pietro's father.

Definitely super not in the MCU, where he doesn't even exist, but in the canonical Marvel Earth-616 universe, it isn't true either. Their last name isn't Lehnsherr, it's Maximoff. She and Pietro, in Earth-616, were the children of Django and Marya Maximoff. They aren't even mutants; they have powers because of experimentation by the High Evolutionary.

The "Magneto is your secret father" thing was a lie Magneto used to manipulate the two of them for a while. That's it. That's Earth-616 canon.

I also have no idea where you're getting any similarity to Jean.



Pietro here is not Pietro from the X-men universe. He claims to have her Pietro's memories, and remembers dying as he did.

You're relying on assumptions the stunt casting tricked you into believing by thinking there's anything about the X-men universe in here. That's a red herring and other than Evan Peters being cast, there's nothing that suggests he's from another universe. Even if you want to assume he's totally legit (and I think they've given a TON of hints that he's not), the better explanation is that the Hex (or Wanda) can't create new people here, so it couldn't create Pietro in his old form, but had to grap another townsperson at random and stick a Quicksilver personality in his head. Would be a similar explanation as to why she needed Vision's body to get his rebirth going.

Thank you for that. Again, i enjoy the information you guys put in here. There's more than just Evan Peters to suggest a tie in to the X-men universe though. They didn't need to make it a hexagonal shape, they could've made it anything but they consciously chose to use that shape and point it out tying it directly to her comic description of her powers.

And what's stunt casting? I think if they wanted the original actor from AoU they would've gotten him. She was shocked by his arrival, but he appeared right after he's brought up. And he's pretty much a comical exaggeration of who he plays in the X-men movies, like all the characters in the show.

The bit about Jean is Wanda is literally just a Telepath/Telekinetic in Avengers, just like Jean. She's struggling with a power inside her, just like Jean. She's viewed as a monster, just like Jean. She's just been used as Jean Grey but with red swirls after she joined the Avengers.

Also I do get there are different universes and in this one Magneto isn't hers or Pietro's father. I understand all of that. She's still from a broken country that's been destroyed by Starks weapons. But she switches to this bubble gum pop Wanda that's perfectly fine working next to the man that was complicit in the death of her parents, brother and entire country? They could've played up the broken survivor trope, but they pretty much skim right over it and maybe make her get emotional a few times here and there just to shoe horn her into the empathetic telepath trope instead (Jean Grey again.) She's pretty much a reskin of Jean Grey in the Avengers.

Again, appreciate your point of view on this. Reminds me of an old co-worker I had.

Also I can't remember the last time I watched something that struck up this much conversation where I actually wanted to hear opinions so it's nice.

[segara82]

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Magnetos children was canon for about 30 years, until magic and comic writers retconned it. I mean, they retconned so many family ties and other things in Marvel and DC that it's all up to what the writers want to happen.
And not the only child of Magneto that got their lineage retconned. My god, what a mess.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/x-men-villain-magneto-complicated-895813#:~:text=Quicksilver%20isn't%20Magneto's%20only,son%20of%20Michael%20Fassbender's%20 Magneto.

[Endus]

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Magnetos children was canon for about 30 years, until magic and comic writers retconned it. I mean, they retconned so many family ties and other things in Marvel and DC that it's all up to what the writers want to happen.
And not the only child of Magneto that got their lineage retconned. My god, what a mess.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...9;s%20Magneto.

And being Magneto's kids was itself a retcon, in its day; it wasn't how the characters started out. The "retcon" you're talking about brought them back to their original parentage.

If you want to argue that retcons are bad, then you should be happy that they're no longer considered Magneto's kids, and are back to their original parentage.

If you want to argue that what is "canonically correct" is contextual and only relevant to the current canon, then you don't have much room to complain about retcons to begin with. All you're really saying is you grew up with the retcon and don't like the original.

[segara82]

And being Magneto's kids was itself a retcon, in its day; it wasn't how the characters started out. The "retcon" you're talking about brought them back to their original parentage.

If you want to argue that retcons are bad, then you should be happy that they're no longer considered Magneto's kids, and are back to their original parentage.

If you want to argue that what is "canonically correct" is contextual and only relevant to the current canon, then you don't have much room to complain about retcons to begin with. All you're really saying is you grew up with the retcon and don't like the original.

Well, 30 years is more than 'a while', entire generations of writers and artists came and went. And i find it hard to believe that Marvel had a plan with such a long run-time.

Meh, i try not to get too attached to canon, every decade or so someone changes things to better fit his/her story. The connection between Magneto an Quicksilver was more or less established in the FoX-Men movies, but the MCU has gone with the original route. Neither is automacitally better, both allow their own way to tell stories based on this.
By using Evan Peters the creators have, on purpose, created a connection between the universes to bring the X-Men into the MCU. How exactly they will connect Quicksilver, SW and Magneto is still up in the air. They claim to have a Luke Skywalker-level of a suprise for us at the end of the show.

Pure speculation on my part: Michael Fassbender as Magneto returns.

[Endus]

By using Evan Peters the creators have, on purpose, created a connection between the universes to bring the X-Men into the MCU. How exactly they will connect Quicksilver, SW and Magneto is still up in the air. They claim to have a Luke Skywalker-level of a suprise for us at the end of the show.

Seriously; this is not the case.

We essentially have three Quicksilvers.

We have Aaron Taylor-Johnson from the Ultron film in the MCU, Wanda's brother, Pietro.
We have Evan Peters in the X-men universe and films, who doesn't seem to HAVE a sister from what I recall. This guy goes by Peter.
And we have Evan Peters in Wandavision, who does not have any memories of the X-men universe version of Quicksilver. He claims to have memories of Pietro's life. He goes by Pietro, not Peter. He remembers Wanda and their life together, where he wouldn't if he were Peter.

In every sense but the casting, the Wandavision iteration wants you to believe he's Pietro. He insists upon it. He provides no suggestion, other than the casting, of any connection to the other version of Quicksilver.

And the reason I say we have three Quicksilvers is because this Pietro's story does not line up. He claims the last thing he remembers was being shot. But he knows Vision died, and mocks Wanda for her husband dying twice. He's weirdly cruel, both in how he smashes pumpkins and steals candy from everyone in town, in how he thinks Wanda subjugating the will of everyone is awesome and cool, and how he just casually scares and mocks Wanda, not something we saw from Pietro in Age of Ultron. He claims to be Pietro, but he doesn't act like Pietro. He remembers things Pietro couldn't. He doesn't even have Pietro's face. So, other than Wanda's desperate desire to have her brother back, why do we have any reason to believe this guy is Pietro?

Which doesn't mean he's Peter. He wouldn't remember any of the Avengers stuff if he were. He's clearly from the MCU timeline, whoever he is. And indeed, he seems more aware of what's going on than Wanda even does, if you pay attention.

With the reveal at the end of Ep 5, there was a lot of gossip that they might be about to combine the universes, but Ep 6 took pains to tell us that was not what was going on here.

It's essentially stunt casting. It's a red herring they tossed out, either as a joke for fans or because they thought it was a great distraction as they introduced Evan Peters as a wholly new character, pretending to be Pietro. He's not yoinked out of the X-men universe. We seriously do not have any in-universe indication to suggest that's what happened. It's an idea based solely on the same guy being cast, which is like arguing that the Fantastic Four are MCU canon and Johnny Storm is a secret codename for Steve Rogers who has fire powers he just never uses in the MCU. Because Chris Evans played both characters.

[baskev]

I'll help you out. When it first released I watched the first episode and did not like it at all. I wasn't sure what was going on, but nothing about the first episode caught my eye to make me want to see what happens next week. Since then I just recently went back and watched episodes 2-6 or 7 whichever is the most recent as of this post, I don't want to give any sort of description of the episode for spoilers. I will say that after episode 3 I was beginning to get hooked and now as I type this I can't wait to see what happens in the next episode.


TLDR: slow to start, main plot slowly starts unfolding in episodes 3+ and gets VERY interesting with each episode getting better and better. Would def recommend if you liked anything Marvel in the past it's def worth. I love how "on the nose" this show is with the lines they say on explaining things it's so good and entertaining.

- - - Updated - - -



New season or not we know they are going to continue the story being told here in some fashion so your logic still holds up.

ty. all i wanted to know.

[Al Gorefiend]

Why. It would be much better for them to toss some throwaway line about how his mutation has slowed his aging than it would be to lose such a huge element of his character.

Or...you know...just having him pulled from a timeline/universe where he simply isn't that old yet.

I have no idea if any of this will even lead to mutants being rolled into the MCU, but if they are, there's going to have to be a lot of retconning anyway. Making sure that Magneto (if he shows up) is an appropriate age seems trivial.

I don't disrespect Magneto as he's one of the most interesting Marvel characters.

But he's too dated.

- - - Updated - - -

Meh if they wanted it they could find a way. The comics managed it by de-aging him near the start of Claremont's run.

De-aging and immortality and "exceptionally long-lived" tells me maybe popular superheroes just need to eventually die for fresh ideas, so up and coming comic writers actually create new characters

Maybe we don't need Magneto. His story was so perfect and just gets crappier and weirder every run. He's been a monarch, a villain, a hero, a savior, a dad, and he's like infinitely capable of changing his age at will apparently. Of his many different writers, none of them ever respected one another and every writer just retconned their predecessor or copped out with "it was a clone/Skrull/alt universe".

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't disrespect Magneto as he's one of the most interesting Marvel characters.

But he's too dated.

...Too dated? His whole schtick is much like every other mutant is an analogue for the civil rights movement and well.... thats timeless and hasn't stopped being relevant. Change his age or whatever and the thing is the same.

[Al Gorefiend]

...Too dated? His whole schtick is much like every other mutant is an analogue for the civil rights movement and well.... thats timeless and hasn't stopped being relevant. Change his age or whatever and the thing is the same.

But the thing I dislike is that his age has been changed dozens of times since the 70s, he's been tied to a real-life origin story that made sense at the time. . Decades from now, We'll end up with an ageless Magneto with an origin story wrapped around in a war that happened 100 years ago - equivalent to a superhero released in the 90s with an origin story tied to being a confederate

[Triceron]

Magneto as a holocaust survivor just won't work anymore. It was a stretch even in the 00s as he'd be 60+

I agree he'll need a new origin story for the MCU, not necessarily a survivor of a genocide but for whatever reason develops a disgust for humanity and goes villain.

The snap could give him an extra 5 years :P

[s_bushido]

Decades from now, We'll end up with an ageless Magneto with an origin story wrapped around in a war that happened 100 years ago - equivalent to a superhero released in the 90s with an origin story tied to being a confederate

I mean... People still fly Confederate flags. And it's not as if we're going to forget what the Holocaust was any time soon (short of some new regime rising to power and exterminating millions of people). I can see certain real-life events and contexts becoming irrelevant over time, but these specifically are probably not the best examples of that.

But since this is a thread about Wandavision, consider that the thousands dead in the various events surrounding the Avengers (like New York, Sokovia, and Lagos) have pretty much no impact on the audience...because it's fiction. We understand the motivations of the characters who were influenced by those in-universe tragedies, but that's about it. The amount of people who personally experienced an event like the Holocaust is now vanishingly small, but we still aren't that far removed from such an important event in actual history.

[Ophenia]

I've read something on a random french website, that says that Ads were also referring to the Infinity Stones, but one or two seem a bit far-fetched to me
- Yo'Magic would be referring to Red Skull's situation on Vormir, having the Soul Stone in front of him but unable to use/access it
- Lagos would be referring to the Reality Stone as the liquid spilled on the floor is Red and could refer to the Ether (a bit far-fetched but it's true that everything seems red-ish in this ad)
- Hydra Soak is Tesseract-shaped
- Strucker Watch is obvious to which stone it refers to
- Toastmate 2000 is where it's a bit far-fetched to me, people tend to see a face here, and it could be assimilated to Vision, with the name of the toaster at the same position as the Mind Stone on Vision



If that's really done like that (either as simple nods or a real interest), then the next ad should be referring to the power stone

[ohwell]

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Magnetos children was canon for about 30 years, until magic and comic writers retconned it. I mean, they retconned so many family ties and other things in Marvel and DC that it's all up to what the writers want to happen.
And not the only child of Magneto that got their lineage retconned. My god, what a mess.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/x-men-villain-magneto-complicated-895813#:~:text=Quicksilver%20isn't%20Magneto's%20only,son%20of%20Michael%20Fassbender's%20 Magneto.

The current comics are such a mess too, but somehow an interesting mess? Like the whole Moira thing going on, but then somehow they're including the Xmen in things like the Phoenix return(I think it's just Wolverine) and then the King in Black story has them also involved in that because they kinda need to be as it's a world shattering event yet they said they utterly disdain humans etc now or something of the like.

[s_bushido]

I've read something on a random french website, that says that Ads were also referring to the Infinity Stones

That just seems like people reaching. I think they're pretty clearly supposed to be related to experiences in Wanda's life.

The ticking of the Stark bomb in her family home, being approached by Strucker, indoctrinated/enhanced by Hydra, the mess she caused in Lagos, and (maybe) survivor's guilt over the loss of her brother who didn't get the same magic she did. The yogurt one is the most obscure, but I think the rest are straightforward.

[eschatological]

Yeah, in Days of Future Past you see Quicksilver's sister watching TV, and there's a strong implication of a second:

[Endus]

Evan Peter’s character in X-Men has two sisters. A younger one that we see, and another that is mentioned by their mum - she tells the younger girl to go bug her sister, and she replies, “she bugs me”. I took that as her saying that the other sister mentally messes with her... aka Wanda.

Yeah, in Days of Future Past you see Quicksilver's sister watching TV, and there's a strong implication of a second:

Fair enough, been a while since I watched those films. But a few points stand out that still support what I'm saying;
1> They've got a mom. Wanda and Pietro didn't.
2> Two sisters. Pietro only had the one.
3> You can easily see that Evan Peters' "Pietro"'s abilities look like MCU Pietro's powers, not Peter's from this film.
4> Neither of the two Quicksilvers actually behave like Evan Peters' Pietro. If Evan Peters were trying to play the same character, you'd think he could reprise the role pretty easily, right? So why the massive difference in how he's playing him?

I repeat; I do not for a single hot second believe that Evan Peters, in Wandavision, is playing a character who was in any way plucked out of the X-men universe. I don't want to dismiss any possibility of anything multiversey, but that particular idea is not what we're seeing, and I feel the show creators have taken pains to indicate that's not what's going on and thus this isn't just me coming up with headcanon.

Maybe they're just bad at keeping things straight, but I don't expect that from MCU showrunners.

[Newname1234567890]

But the thing I dislike is that his age has been changed dozens of times since the 70s, he's been tied to a real-life origin story that made sense at the time. . Decades from now, We'll end up with an ageless Magneto with an origin story wrapped around in a war that happened 100 years ago - equivalent to a superhero released in the 90s with an origin story tied to being a confederate

They'll just recast him to be Kurdish or another ethnic group that's been the victim of a more recent genecide.

[RobertoCarlos]

Fair enough, been a while since I watched those films. But a few points stand out that still support what I'm saying;
1> They've got a mom. Wanda and Pietro didn't.
2> Two sisters. Pietro only had the one.
3> You can easily see that Evan Peters' "Pietro"'s abilities look like MCU Pietro's powers, not Peter's from this film.
4> Neither of the two Quicksilvers actually behave like Evan Peters' Pietro. If Evan Peters were trying to play the same character, you'd think he could reprise the role pretty easily, right? So why the massive difference in how he's playing him?

I repeat; I do not for a single hot second believe that Evan Peters, in Wandavision, is playing a character who was in any way plucked out of the X-men universe. I don't want to dismiss any possibility of anything multiversey, but that particular idea is not what we're seeing, and I feel the show creators have taken pains to indicate that's not what's going on and thus this isn't just me coming up with headcanon.

Maybe they're just bad at keeping things straight, but I don't expect that from MCU showrunners.

Well if you did want to bring in characters from other multiverses, this would be the show to do it on.

If it wasnt for Dr strange 2 which could also bring in characters from other universes you would assume it is. I would personally hope they actually focus on Strange though in his film who had a forgettable origin movie as his first movie.

Yeah the characters might be slightly different but we have alternate reality Gamora running around who is exactly the same just forgot she loves Quill.

They can pick and choose whatever they like, they can keep whatever characteristics they like and they can throw away characteristics they dont like, Much like Wanda's accent!

Maybe Marvel realised they are at their maximum capacity of quipsters on screen, so they made him more mean.

[Endus]

Well if you did want to bring in characters from other multiverses, this would be the show to do it on.

If it wasnt for Dr strange 2 which could also bring in characters from other universes you would assume it is. I would personally hope they actually focus on Strange though in his film who had a forgettable origin movie as his first movie.

Yeah the characters might be slightly different but we have alternate reality Gamora running around who is exactly the same just forgot she loves Quill.

They can pick and choose whatever they like, they can keep whatever characteristics they like and they can throw away characteristics they dont like, Much like Wanda's accent!

Maybe Marvel realised they are at their maximum capacity of quipsters on screen, so they made him more mean.

Doesn't explain why he has Pietro's memories, including Pietro's death.
Doesn't explain why he's wrong about some of those memories.
Doesn't explain why he magically remembers things that happened between his death and this return.

That's my point. We have a story by Evan-Peters-as-Pietro, and that story does not line up with either him being a new face for Pietro in the MCU, or for being Peter from the X-men universe ported over. The character's claiming the first, but the facts are against that. The fans are claiming the second, but the facts are also against that. I'm suggesting that neither of those are accurate. That it must be a third option.

We can debate what that third option may be and what the specifics are, and while I've got ideas none of them are concrete at this point. This isn't me claiming I know what's going on. Just that two popular ideas are not the correct answers.