Will the 9th expansion finally be fresh and not Legon 3.0?

[Velerios]

There are only a few extra load screens you have compared to past expansions. You don't play WoW for the immersion since you also complain about flight travel times and having to go through Oribos when those are immersive designs.

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Daily quest hubs are essentially world quests. You still can "interact with a faction" if you make that choice. But lets face it after the first week or two of dailies you no longer cared about the hub. Just like with World Quests. And with callings you are specifically picking up the quest and being sent to zones to do stuff. Having the freedom to pick the Daily you do in that zone versus the same specific dailies is always better.

Not to mention we had things like Mechagon and Nazjatar in BfA that are exactly what you say is better. But it doesn't register. We have the maw which is what you say is better but that doesn't seem to register. Weird huh? You are blinded by nostalgia.

Nazjatar had a weird mix of shitty world quests and dailys. That's the worst thing about it. Also that it was build for flying made it so much worse; i think that if they build nazjatar not for flying, but for ground mounts only, it would have been better. Also there was no progression in Nazjatar.

Because of this, Mechagon was far more liked than Nazjatar.

And sorry, but you can't remove shitty mechanics in the maw and then call out that with my logic, the maw must be better; but the world is not black and white. The Maw has it's own issues:

1.) Depressing color palette. It's depressing yes, but the color palette there is so utterly utterly bad that nobody wants to be there.
2.) IT'S TIMED CRAP. Timed crap is timed crap, especially for an outdoor-zone. Timed works when it's about a dungeon like vault of the thunder king for example. But not on outdoor-zones. People need to go afk, but this shitty zone is so build that if you go afk, the shitty eye grow and then you get killed by whatever comes along. Especially when you have already 2-3 stacks, going to the toilet is not even possible, because you die and then loose a lot of stygia.

The maw is utterly bullshit, it doesn't matter that it does have only world quests, the design is bad, the visuals are bad, it's simply a bad zone. And the timed crap is there to made up for the lack of content in the maw.

So yes, world quests are crap. And having good content with only dailys is possible, see Mechagon. But progressive content is better, and i can't understand why we can't have more content like Isle of Quel'danas, Isle of Thunder and Suramar. Especially Suramar was so good.

[Ludvig]

not as long as ion's in charge bud

[NineSpine]

Big WoW player since launch, I still love this game 17 years later. Of the recent expansions the past 5+ years, I LOVED Legion, it's easily one of my fav expansions, so many cool new things to do in it, and it was a fresh and so fun, never stale or boring whatsoever. Class Halls, and artifact appearances, specific class mounts, and Mage Tower and a new class in Demon Hunter, they created Mythic + dungeons, etc...

But lately with BfA ( Legion 2.0 ) and now Shadowlands ( Legion 3.0 ) I'm starting to hit a wall in boredom of the same old, same old. It feels like Legion, just continued, but not in a good way.

And no, it's not just WoW or I am getting burned out or getting older with different interests, no it's specifically shitty WoW development. I love WoW, but we're basically on the third expansion in a row that have the stupid crappy systems and same stuff again and again.

World Quests were great and exciting in Legion, then ok BfA, but now totally suck in SL. What happened to the kill one boss WQ's, instead we get these tedious and boring fill the XP bar WQ's and now they seem to take longer, one kill only gives you 1% or 2%, meaning it takes FOREVER to complete it, and by the time I hit 100% and complete the World Quest I am so freaking bored and frustrated.

And the systems made in Legion were cool, and fresh, Artifacts and Legendary's, and Netherlight Crucible, etc... Then Blizzard blows it all up, and creates a whole new system for BfA with Azerite, and Essences, and Corruption ( Ugh the worst ) and then the next expansion Shadowlands, they nuke it all again, and give us a whole new set of stupid systems with Covenants, and Soul binds, and blah, blah, blah, holy fuck just stop this already Blizz.

Stop creating brand new game systems, it's the worst. We don't need Artifact or Azerite, or Covenant gear.

I don't want to grind for AP, or Azerite or Anima.

I don't want worse World Quests that are very time consuming and just boring AF.


Is there a possibility of a new creative team or director for the next expansion? I don't want Legion 4.0 anymore, I want a fresh take on WoW, new blood to take on the reigns. Whole new thought process for the game, no more Artifact or Azerite or Covenants, but part 4 in the next expansion, please no more.

I think the issue that is between the lines here and not being directly said is that you hit 60 and almost all endgame content is immediately available. There is no progression through content. All progression feels like trivial cosmetic stuff or marginal upgrades that are just used to access another difficulty of the same content you already did.

Even the damn world scales with you. There’s never a feeling of actually becoming more powerful, never a feeling of hitting a point where you are ready to take on new content. It’s a mobile game style repetitive grind.

[un_known]

This is such a ridiculous claim.

Players saying anima is only for cosmetics/mounts are probably not playing the game.

In order to unlock soulbinds and conduits, you need to raise up renown. In order to you raise your renown, you need to farm 1K anima/week.

Your player power (soulbinds/conduits) are directly behind anima farming.

For players saying you don't need to farm anima at all if you don't care about soulbinds and conduits, because even if you are behind, you will catch up fast later.

In that logic, you didn't need to farm AP in Legion/BFA either, if you don't care about your weapon/HoA rank. And there were AP knowledge that increase every week, you will catch up fast anyway.

anima/renown is exactly the same thing as artifact power/azerite power, 100%, just with different names.

what game are you playing??

Artifact power and Azerite was something you could continuously farm until you pass out in your chair, while anima is only 2 dungeon weekly's a world boss and a handful of world quests for 1000 anima a week that contributes to renown, which is miniscule when compared to Legion/BFA

so saying "PP is directly behind anima farming" is nonsensical as you're literally saying that:

1000 anima for 1 weekly quest that takes up 1-2 hours tops
=
10000000000 AP grind/week that you need to do to stay competitive with other raiders

and btw! the massive difference between Legion/BFA and Shadowlands? Shadowlands doesn't punish you with a never ending grind if you decide to sit out a few days/weeks worth, as you can just do a world boss to get a renown (no anima needed) do bosses in raids/dungeons to get a renown (again no anima required) or if you're lucky then you get renown with callings that rewards renown (oh look at that! no anima required!)

[NineSpine]

What did I just read? So what is it? Sounds like somebody creating contradicting things, so he cam later complain that they don't listen to "feedback"

The “new systems” are just increasingly obtuse and less polished remixes of the old systems. They aren’t the equivalent of new and interesting content. It helps to actually understand the post rather than just reading it to fish for internet debate lord points.

New systems aren’t new content, especially when those systems just feel like poor copies of old systems.

[Azerate]

what exactly is this fresh thing in SL ?

- Setting - completely unique, not even another world but the afterlife itself
- Covenants, the first case ever of a pseudo sub-class, with lots of interesting and unique gameplay around cosmetics and minigames
- no infinite player power based grind like AP
- another first time ever - the maw, a zone where your time is being limited by the activities you do
- torghast...do I actually have to explain how innovative this is in wow?

I could go on and on, but I know in the end you don't care for real arguments as your mission in life to keep playing wow, being sad about it and doing your best to make others' time miserable as well

[Relapses]

The “new systems” are just increasingly obtuse and less polished remixes of the old systems. They aren’t the equivalent of new and interesting content. It helps to actually understand the post rather than just reading it to fish for internet debate lord points.

New systems aren’t new content, especially when those systems just feel like poor copies of old systems.

That's a nice opinion you have there. Can you try to find an actual argument that isn't that you simply prefer the older flavor of the same bullshit to its modern counterpart?

[Zantera]

I just don't buy the argument that Shadowlands is Legion 3.0 to begin with. The thing is I remember back many years ago in Wotlk when people said "Its just TBC 2.0 but worse". Then Cataclysm came out and it was "more of the same but worse". There's differences and similarities across expansions because it's the same base game. You're not gonna throw out things that work in favor of things that don't work but they also gotta try new things to test the waters for what will work.

Just look at how dungeons were perceived as being too hard in TBC, so they made them faceroll easy in Wotlk, but then they backtracked in Cata to make them harder, they kinda backtracked again in MoP to make them easier and eventually in WoD they added mythic dungeons to please more people. You're not gonna throw out a feature like M+ which is beloved by many people just to make the next expansion different by design. Warfronts on the other hand which received a far more lukewarm reception? Yeah those can go.

[Swnem]

The question to me is why you enjoyed Legion at all. It had all the crappy systems we hated in a worse form.

I guess artifacts were that shiny. I can say the story was better, cause despite what some devs and hardcore posters say, WoW is ready to move away from locked factions. Legion had a story that focused on our characters. It was personal, it made you feel connected. But, they pissed on our faces at the end by making us non canon and moving to "Champion!" again. Some nobody faction slave. Which continues into SL. They at least give extra recognition to the Deathlord, but it was just at the beggining.

Actually it's telling with their arguments at Blizzcon and the embarassing covenant shouts. What they don't realise is that they have already come up with something better than factions. Classes!
Look on discord. Do you see a popular alliance or horde discord? No. People organise and identify with their classes. Honestly, it was the only thing to like about Legion, but heck if the devs realise it. Even when they hit gold they don't understand why.

[Steelangel]

This is such a ridiculous claim.

Players saying anima is only for cosmetics/mounts are probably not playing the game.

I'm not making this claim. I said "almost completely optional"

With that said, getting 1k anima per week is child's play, especially after the buff. That's about 1 full raid clear on normal.

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"Anima is an optional system"

Yet you literally need it for power to take into raids with you.

Illiteracy is a nationwide problem.

Don't misquote me. I said "almost completely optional system" and I pointed out that you got renown from it. You don't have to farm anima endlessly like you did AP for your artifact or your heart if you don't want to. Just do some quests, get some anima, done.

[LordVargK]

Anima =/= AP/Azerite

Case closed.

This. SL has about as much to do with Legion as WoD.

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I'm not making this claim. I said "almost completely optional"

With that said, getting 1k anima per week is child's play, especially after the buff. That's about 1 full raid clear on normal.

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Illiteracy is a nationwide problem.

Don't misquote me. I said "almost completely optional system" and I pointed out that you got renown from it. You don't have to farm anima endlessly like you did AP for your artifact or your heart if you don't want to. Just do some quests, get some anima, done.

You don't even need to do that. Once you're behind on renown, you can completely ignore the weekly anima quest get your renown from other sources.

[Zka]

Anima =/= AP/Azerite

Case closed.

Good job addressing all his concerns, he didn't complain about anything else.
OH WAIT

[A Chozo]

Legion 4.0 will sell like hot cakes and keep healthy subs while at the same almost at the level of Final Fantasy XIV, unlike whatever came after the WC3 juice ran out in WotLK.

They had to adapt, and this is it.

[Djuntas]

I agree with likely all you say OP, but its Blizzard...systems are all they can think off these days...

Also f*ck the huuge amount of insane rng grinds that keeps being added to the game that keeps collectors never able to catch up unless you play 12 hours a day.

[Niwes]

- Setting - completely unique, not even another world but the afterlife itself
- Covenants, the first case ever of a pseudo sub-class, with lots of interesting and unique gameplay around cosmetics and minigames
- no infinite player power based grind like AP
- another first time ever - the maw, a zone where your time is being limited by the activities you do
- torghast...do I actually have to explain how innovative this is in wow?

I could go on and on, but I know in the end you don't care for real arguments as your mission in life to keep playing wow, being sad about it and doing your best to make others' time miserable as well

ok. seems our opinions and our point of view differ here.
no glue what that white knight part at the end shoul be for. but i have no problem with that.

[Zka]

So yeah, I think wow needs activities that are not just time-gated grinds, things that are not made to extend the playtime, but that are just fun to do. Until them, I'll be raid logging mostly.

Saddest part is that the game was exactly like that in BC and LK. People played their mains and then played alts, and then new alts. The game offered nothing but group activities at max level, like an MMO should. Not sure why they had to divert from that design direction. It was perfect.

[arkanon]

I would absolutely love to see them completely flip the script and do something absolutely bonkers for one expansion - but it will never happen. The reality is they go off hard data and numbers, and the data and numbers obviously shows this is a successful formula.

Blizzard are a lot of things, but "stupid" isnt one of them, and although many people claim to hate these last 2 expansions, obviously many more are at the very least willing to pay for and play them, and play them.

[Niwes]

I agree with likely all you say OP, but its Blizzard...systems are all they can think off these days...

Also f*ck the huuge amount of insane rng grinds that keeps being added to the game that keeps collectors never able to catch up unless you play 12 hours a day.

yep. i stopped my wow career as a collector after 12-14 years (somewhere in the beginning of BfA) because of that. somewhere between wotlk and WoD i had fun collecting stuff, before they spit in tons of it and tons of rng, so it lost its sense.

[arkanon]

Saddest part is that the game was exactly like that in BC and LK. People played their mains and then played alts, and then new alts. The game offered nothing but group activities at max level, like an MMO should. Not sure why they had to divert from that design direction.

TBC had dailies, queued heroic dungeons (later on), badge gear, EXTRMEMELY powerful crafted gear, and entire zone dedicated to rep grinds and solo play. Yes, the dungeons qualify as "group" activities, but anyone who did them is well aware the other players might as well have been bots for the majority of runs - it was queue up, steamroll it, get your currency, and get out.

Personally, I focus much more on group content anyway, but the idea of a solo player being able to obtain a lot of power and have a lot to do has been around since TBC.

[Zka]

TBC had dailies, queued heroic dungeons (later on), badge gear, EXTRMEMELY powerful crafted gear, and entire zone dedicated to rep grinds and solo play. Yes, the dungeons qualify as "group" activities, but anyone who did them is well aware the other players might as well have been bots for the majority of runs - it was queue up, steamroll it, get your currency, and get out.
Personally, I focus much more on group content anyway, but the idea of a solo player being able to obtain a lot of power and have a lot to do has been around since TBC.

Yeah it started in BC but it was pretty thin and optional. I skipped almost all of it because it was mostly pointless for raiders. Sadly the game design moved in a direction that everyone needs to do some amount of solo stuff regularly and these are all so bland and boring now. Also I strongly dislike the direction where dungeon/raid design went, so I really have no reason and motivation to endure the solo bullshit anymore.
I have 0 problems with solo players getting rewards.