Solution for M+ leavers....

[Tziva]

Are you telling me that it's rare in a thread about leavers and toxicity in M+, that's 50+ pages? Your premise is not even funny.

I mean, you're the only one here claiming to see leavers every day... it's very possible that your experience is abnormal not ours.

As I mentioned before, I do 20-50 keys a week depending on affixes in multiple key ranges and I see leavers pretty infrequently. I saw ONE last week, on my alt when we wiped on a boss in a +11 and were not going to time (fucker faked a DC though which ugh). The two weeks prior I don't think I saw a single one. On really shitty affix weeks I might see one or two a week, max, since those keys tend to be a little rockier.

Leavers were slightly more frequent early in the expansion when the loot nerf meant there was almost no incentive to finish untimed keys, but it's honestly rare I see anyone ditch a key nowadays even if we're not going to time it.

I will turn your argument around: If you think toxicity and leaving is rare in M+, there is a good chance that you are leaver yourself.

There is zero logic or support to that claim.

FWIW In three expansions of m+, I have never left a key first, ever. I have suffered through even the most atrocious of PuGs and shitty keys.

[Kuntantee]

I mean, you're the only one here claiming to see leavers every day... it's very possible that your experience is abnormal not ours.

As I mentioned before, I do 20-50 keys a week depending on affixes in multiple key ranges and I see leavers pretty infrequently. I saw ONE last week, on my alt when we wiped on a boss in a +11 and were not going to time (fucker faked a DC though which ugh). The two weeks prior I don't think I saw a single one. On really shitty affix weeks I might see one or two a week, max, since those keys tend to be a little rockier.

Leavers were slightly more frequent early in the expansion when the loot nerf meant there was almost no incentive to finish untimed keys, but it's honestly rare I see anyone ditch a key nowadays even if we're not going to time it.


There is zero logic or support to that claim.

FWIW In three expansions of m+, I have never left a key first, ever. I have suffered through even the most atrocious of PuGs and shitty keys.

I didn't say leavers I said toxicity which also includes leavers.

Here is a SS from today. Tank somehow dced, leader invited a new guy. Comes in, talks shit, calls us noob leaves. Thankfully, this fucker left before we started.




I will take my experience over your uber logic. Thank you very much.

- - - Updated - - -

Same people in this thread keep repeating that their experience is different and I am wrong because my experience is not in line with theirs.


We understood you, stop repeating yourselves. In the mean while, me and my friends encounter toxicity consistently. Existence of this thread is obviously a proof that we aren't the only one.

[Kuntantee]

lol... looks more like he was kicked by the leader... and why aren't you just taking a screenshot...

It doesn't matter. The mentality of the player is visible in the very first words he chose to use before leaving or getting kicked.

This is the reality of modern WoW players. Extreme toxicity that often times lead to leaving/ruining others key.

[Tziva]

I didn't say leavers I said toxicity which also includes leavers.

I mean, you specifically said "leavers and toxicity" so I don't think it was really inaccurate for me to address leavers :P

My experience with toxicity is pretty similar also, I maybe get one or two assholes a week, max. Most weeks I don't see any.

I will take my experience over your uber logic. Thank you very much.

So your experience is that those of us that rarely experience them are leavers ourselves? Which ones of us have you grouped with? :P

Same people in this thread keep repeating that their experience is different and I am wrong because my experience is not in line with theirs.

The difference is, you're projecting your experience onto the entire community. If you experience a lot of toxicity, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that leavers and toxicity are rampant. Your experience is valid but it only reflects your experience. Lots of us have had differing experiences.

We understood you, stop repeating yourselves. In the mean while, me and my friends encounter toxicity consistently. Existence of this thread is obviously a proof that we aren't the only one.

No one is saying you're the only one that experiences it. I'm saying the frequency you're reporting is much higher than anyone else is reporting.

Also this is discussion board :P people are going to discuss

[Armael]

I'm currently on 19s and 20s. There's a lot less toxicity than lots of you are experiencing, but you all are also doing much lower keys. Also, if there's a wipe on any boss (maybe except the last boss), the group will automatically break since we know it won't be timed. The 1st to leave in this case isn't really considered a "leaver" in this case, because we all understand how these work.

[Tziva]

Mutually disbanding a failed run is common in higher keys because their entire goal was pushing and if they can't do that there isn't reason to continue. Since that's always mutual and agreed upon, I don't think that really counts here.

[Kuntantee]

So your experience is that those of us that rarely experience them are leavers ourselves? Which ones of us have you grouped with? :P

You know I wasn't being serious there right? Calling me the problem just because I have different experience than yours is bullocks too.

The difference is, you're projecting your experience onto the entire community. If you experience a lot of toxicity, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that leavers and toxicity are rampant. Your experience is valid but it only reflects your experience. Lots of us have had differing experiences.

Same argument can be used for your side. Maybe toxicity and leavers are rampant and you happen to be in the minority?

[thunderdragon2]

Mutually disbanding a failed run is common in higher keys because their entire goal was pushing and if they can't do that there isn't reason to continue. Since that's always mutual and agreed upon, I don't think that really counts here.

what level of key are you doing as it seems to be very common to see leavers in the 10-15 bracket of which i am doing mostly

[Armael]

what level of key are you doing as it seems to be very common to see leavers in the 10-15 bracket of which i am doing mostly

He was replying to me and I do 19s and 20s now.

[Tziva]

You know I wasn't being serious there right? Calling me the problem just because I have different experience than yours is bullocks too.

I didn't call you the problem, I suggested that as the common variable in these runs, you might investigate if there is something you are doing or not doing (or your friend if he's always there too) that is increasing the likelihood of that happening. Maybe you're super nice and an excellent player and always build careful groups and just happen to be the unluckiest person ever, but it seems like a crazy coincidence to have these experiences at the frequency you do if that is the case.

A lot of things can influence bad attitudes and foster an environment where people get shitty. I'd encourage anyone who was seeing it in the majority of their groups to do the same. It's not personal.

Same argument can be used for your side. Maybe toxicity and leavers are rampant and you happen to be in the minority?

Except I'm not presenting my experience as representative of everyone. You're extrapolating yours to the general population. I only brought up mine as a counter experience to yours. There are lots of us who see toxicity and leavers infrequently, so it literally cannot be ubiquitous.

what level of key are you doing as it seems to be very common to see leavers in the 10-15 bracket of which i am doing mostly

What you quoted was me talking about mutually disbanding groups, which mostly only happens when you're pushing higher than 15s. I don't think that counts as "leavers," since people are agreeing together to call it. The person I was responding to was doing 20s, where it is pretty much standard if you're not going to time.

I do keys in all the mid to low ranges. On my main, I do mostly 15-18s. On my rogue (my second most played), I do 10-13s mostly. I do 10s and lower on multiple undergeared alts. I've seen leavers in all ranges, but not particularly frequently in any range more than another. I mentioned in other posts, I usually see 1-2 leavers a week max -- usually on rough affix weeks -- but plenty of weeks where I see none. I see shitty attitudes at about the same frequency, but even these are almost never to the point where it actually disrupts the group or is really extreme; most of the time it's just someone making a snarky statement here or there.

[thunderdragon2]

I didn't call you the problem, I suggested that as the common variable in these runs, you might investigate if there is something you are doing or not doing (or your friend if he's always there too) that is increasing the likelihood of that happening. Maybe you're super nice and an excellent player and always build careful groups and just happen to be the unluckiest person ever, but it seems like a crazy coincidence to have these experiences at the frequency you do if that is the case.

A lot of things can influence bad attitudes and foster an environment where people get shitty. I'd encourage anyone who was seeing it in the majority of their groups to do the same. It's not personal.


Except I'm not presenting my experience as representative of everyone. You're extrapolating yours to the general population. I only brought up mine as a counter experience to yours. There are lots of us who see toxicity and leavers infrequently, so it literally cannot be ubiquitous.


What you quoted was me talking about mutually disbanding groups, which mostly only happens when you're pushing higher than 15s. I don't think that counts as "leavers," since people are agreeing together to call it. The person I was responding to was doing 20s, where it is pretty much standard if you're not going to time.

I do keys in all the mid to low ranges. On my main, I do mostly 15-18s. On my rogue (my second most played), I do 10-13s mostly. I do 10s and lower on multiple undergeared alts. I've seen leavers in all ranges, but not particularly frequently in any range more than another. I mentioned in other posts, I usually see 1-2 leavers a week max -- usually on rough affix weeks -- but plenty of weeks where I see none. I see shitty attitudes at about the same frequency, but even these are almost never to the point where it actually disrupts the group or is really extreme; most of the time it's just someone making a snarky statement here or there.

agreed that docsen't count for this problem but the problem is leavers mid key i'll give you an example over 3 toons i have done over 25 keys this reset trying to get 2 vault options for each of them half of those runs were abandoned mid way mostly by tanks. you may not be seeing it but i certainly am and it is very prevalent. we have a io culture in wow now and it need to go away imo

[Tziva]

agreed that docent count for this problem but the is leavers mid key i'll give you an example over 3 toons i have done over 25 keys this reset trying to get 2 vault options for each of them half of those runs were abandoned mid way mostly by tanks. you may not be seeing it but i certainly am and it is very prevalent. we have a io culture in wow now and it need to go away imo

A large part of the value of raider.io is to build competent groups with similar and appropriate experience. I would propose that using raider.io when making or joining groups might actually be the solution to this problem not the cause.

50% of runs having leavers is insane. I might suggest the same for you that I mentioned to the other person and evaluate what is going on to cause this. Behaivour like that doesn't happen in a vacuum. Since it sounds like you're PuGing but not using raider.io to vet people (since it sounds like you're opposed to it), so it might be very well that you tend to invite people who don't have the experience appropriate to the content, causing failures that lead to tanks cutting their losses. Certainly a lot of things can influence this, but again, if you're the common variable in these runs, it's worthwhile to ask yourself if you are building good groups (who are on the same page with goals), if you're being helpful or hostile when giving instructions or advice, or anything like that.

[thunderdragon2]

A large part of the value of raider.io is to build competent groups with similar and appropriate experience. I would propose that using raider.io when making or joining groups might actually be the solution to this problem not the cause.

50% of runs having leavers is insane. I might suggest the same for you that I mentioned to the other person and evaluate what is going on to cause this. Behaivour like that doesn't happen in a vacuum. Since it sounds like you're PuGing but not using raider.io to vet people (since it sounds like you're opposed to it), so it might be very well that you tend to invite people who don't have the experience appropriate to the content, causing failures that lead to tanks cutting their losses. Certainly a lot of things can influence this, but again, if you're the common variable in these runs, it's worthwhile to ask yourself if you are building good groups (who are on the same page with goals), if you're being helpful or hostile when giving instructions or advice, or anything like that.

i can assure you nothing untoward has been said in chat most of those were chill runs and i say to people when they join "the goal is to finish timing is bonus" and yes i am using rio it's just not helping much in the 10-14 section where i have been pugging yesterday and today, people still leave because it wont be in time nothing i can fix, i take people that have a io score that's capable for for that key, people abandoning 11s and 12s due to 1 wipe on the 2nd boss of necrotic wake for example.

what more can i do? i'm using the addon i believe i'm using it correctly, im stating my intentions for the key not only in the title but also in chat be4 we start and still people leave. what else can i do to stop people form leaving?

[T-34]

Are you telling me that it's rare in a thread about leavers and toxicity in M+, that's 50+ pages? Your premise is not even funny.

I will turn your argument around: If you think toxicity and leaving is rare in M+, there is a good chance that you are leaver yourself.

Yes, I am telling you that. I very rarely have people leave the groups I join and I even more rarely leave groups myself. But I do my due diligence when I pick members for my group and when I join other people's groups.
Spending a minute to vet an applicant for your group will save you much time in the other end.

[Specialka]

And you think it's acceptable to throw profanities at people, label them a "boosted re*ard" and abandon key like a dick all over a measly mistake like that? The key was well ahead of time. We had the first boss down by around the 35 minute mark. We were definitely going to time that key with at least a +2.

The problem was that I didn't see messages in party chat asking me to BL because my attention was focused on another screen. I apologized for the mistake and I wasn't mean about it. But if you leave key over a measly error like that you deserve to be banned from the game.

Riot Games and the greater League of Legends community wouldn't stand for somebody leaving a ranked match because another player was underperforming. Why should the WoW community stand for that crap?

People like you who hold shitty elitist holier-than-thou attitudes are the cancer that's killing WoW. You're the reason why FFXIV Endwalker is probably going to eclipse this game once it comes out. Just look at the number of active players, Blizzard's utter desperation at removing prepaid time purchase options and the rising price of WoW tokens to a new high and honestly tell me Blizzard aren't in dire straits.

Toxicity is a major point of contention in this game, and if Blizzard cba to tackle it, I stand by my proposal that the community take matters into their own hands.

FF 14 is a cool game but do not make it for what it is not.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

What if people play terribly and the key is impossible to finish. Hero and pride is wasted on a tyrannical boss. What else is there to do, sit there and wipe? Repairs are also expensive especially when you are not in the guild that has repairs enabled, which would be totally irrational to cover such costs. Flasks, food, oils are not cheap too. Then key is depleted and it sits on your raider rio then you are being declined further from groups because of it. How is that look? Selfish? No! There is nothing selfish in taking care of yourself. Some people jump into high keys while their gear indicates they shouldn’t even be doing 10’s. Not to mention being instantly kicked for not playing meta spec by people who are not even willing to take an effort to check what spec I am playing or how many dungeons I finished in time before doing so. Not to mention being kicked by a person who doesn’t even have score, because “oh well you won’t be able to boost me enough!”. I did all my keys with the pugs, I had no luxury to be carried. I had to finish all 14s in time in order to get invited to 15 and get my key upgraded. Of course I will leave if someone is not putting in the weight or worse is being toxic. It’s not the game issue. People treat each other instrumentally and no mater what will be invented they will find a way to exploit it, which is why all you can do is to protect yourself and it’s your very right to do. There is nothing wrong with that. Also wasting people’s time for leaving? Are you serious? I also waste time for leaving and having this dungeon unfinished.

Though, from ethical point of view deep in my heart I feel sorry for doing so. I do what I must.

[erifwodahs]

Riot Games and the greater League of Legends community wouldn't stand for somebody leaving a ranked match because another player was underperforming. Why should the WoW community stand for that crap?

Lol...
First of all - groups are auto-matched
Second - it's ranked and you loose rating for losses, so you can't compare it
League Community would not stand for the leaver but the community will shit on the underperforming guy in /All chat and spam surrender 15 if someone has 0 kills and 2 deaths while semi-afking.

Don't make shit up.

[ellieg]

i can assure you nothing untoward has been said in chat most of those were chill runs and i say to people when they join "the goal is to finish timing is bonus" and yes i am using rio it's just not helping much in the 10-14 section where i have been pugging yesterday and today, people still leave because it wont be in time nothing i can fix, i take people that have a io score that's capable for for that key, people abandoning 11s and 12s due to 1 wipe on the 2nd boss of necrotic wake for example.

what more can i do? i'm using the addon i believe i'm using it correctly, im stating my intentions for the key not only in the title but also in chat be4 we start and still people leave. what else can i do to stop people form leaving?

You say you are picking ppl with io capable of 11s and 12s. Can you expand on your process?

If im on an alt running 12s, here's my selection process. Make sure they have a score thatw equal to at least all 10s run. So that would be 800+. Whether that's from some 8 or 9s in a few dungeons made up by 11s and 12s in another dungeons or at least all 8 actually timed on +10. Then if im doing a 12, i make sure they've done 11 in that dungeon. If it all looks good ill prob just invite them, assuming they have a decent ilvl. At this point in the xpac, thats usually ~205-210 but some exceptions apply. If I really want, ill look at their rio page. Check the drop down list on that dungeon and see if they have a bunch of recent fails. Also, ill see that theu have 5-10 timed keys in the 10-14 range to make sure they have experience with pride.

[thunderdragon2]

You say you are picking ppl with io capable of 11s and 12s. Can you expand on your process?

If im on an alt running 12s, here's my selection process. Make sure they have a score that equal to at least all 10s run. So that would be 800+. Whether that's from some 8 or 9s in a few dungeons made up by 11s and 12s in another dungeons or at least all 8 actually timed on +10. Then if im doing a 12, i make sure they've done 11 in that dungeon. If it all looks good ill prob just invite them, assuming they have a decent ilvl. At this point in the xpac, that's usually ~205-210 but some exceptions apply. If I really want, ill look at their rio page. Check the drop down list on that dungeon and see if they have a bunch of recent fails. Also, ill see that they have 5-10 timed keys in the 10-14 range to make sure they have experience with pride.

i don't just look at their over all i.o score i take into account dungeon score also on my paladin i was doing 10s and 11 so i would make sure that the tank has atleast delt with pride be4 i even consider inviting for a 10 i'm looking at minimum of 750 over all io which means they need to have all 9s in time + some 10s or higher.

the reason i dis like rio is because its turned the players in this game into rio hunters and go go go maniacs which only care about beating the clock no mater what the title of the advertised run says.

worst part of it is i have seen many people in the 10-15 section that should be there due to their rio but don't use things such as soothe slows stuns and interrupts, its like they dont' even know what it is

[erifwodahs]

the reason i dis like rio is because its turned the players in this game into rio hunters and go go go maniacs which only care about beating the clock no mater what the title of the advertised run says.

Title matters. I have never seen someone leaving a "weekly vault - finish" run just because it was going to be 5mins over. I have certainly seen people leave "push" keys after it's clear it's deplete, but quite often we would finish a key if deplete happens only by 1min and it only comes clear when you are near the last boss.