Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[gondrin]

I know a guy who downplays Covid-19 because it's "not that serious, less than 2% deaths" while having anxiety over vaccine side effects that are orders of magnitude less as being a deal breaker and the worst thing in the world. He hates when I point that out to him. He gets very angry, lol.

You should mess with him and state that if he gets all the vaccines, he can choose whatever superpower he wants. Otherwise it will be like Agents of SHIELD where you turn into a stone statue for a while and one gets randomly selected.

[Edge-]

I see Trump was trying to feign some form of ignorance on taxes at his rally last night. You know, after his claim a few years ago that he knew more about taxes than any human ever.

Did this man never learn about nuance? He can't even make these attempts to shield himself less blatantly overt.

You don’t learn anything from a tax return. I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes. You can learn very little from a tax return.

- Donald Trump, May 13, 2016.

Trump on Trump continues, even after his presidency. It's a shame that people like, write down or record the shit he says so we can reference and ask, "Which of these two statements is a lie?"

[cubby]

I continue to wonder why Weaselberg would take the fall for Trump. Even if you said "well it's because of all the things Trump gave to him and his family" he's about to lose all those anyhow. Then go to prison for life. At least escape with the shirt on your back. I guess he still thinks he can beat it, I don't know why but he might think he has a legit chance. Every other theory I've seen or come up with doesn't pass the smell test. Stalling to push the trial past 2024 won't work. Stalling until he dies outside of prison won't help...much, and his family will still be on the hook. Trump can't pardon him. And the company he helped build is squarely in the crosshairs -- surely salvaging even part of that is a benefit to him.

The author suggests Trump might be blackmailing Weaselberg. I...admit that's possible, but fail to see how it helps. Almost everything dirty Weaselberg did, Trump ordered, so that's not it. And even if, say, Trump has a VHS with Russian hookers peeing on Weaselberg, is that really a secret you'd die to protect? I'm a public school teacher in the middle of nowhere, so nobody would blackmail me for anything of value, but even if I had fucked a student (which is an instant "you're fired" from almost every school), and someone had a video of it, you'd see me reading the wanted ads the next day, not dead.

So this qualified, experienced expert joins all the other lawyers and even a few family members at this point. But the mystery remains. What do you think? Other than "he thinks he can beat the rap" what possible reason for Weaselberg holding out exists?

Two things I would like to point out. First (from above):

Trump never told the attorneys and accountants what to do; Allen did. But Allen [Weisselberg] would not do anything without Trump’s knowledge and approval.

This will be a major concern for prosecutors. If Weisselberg holds the line, and insists that all illegal activity was done by himself, and NOT Trump, the prosecution will have a tough time getting directly to Trump. This is assuming that damning documents don't exist that point to Trump's direct culpability. But keep in mind, even a check signed by Trump isn't necessarily evidence enough to get a jury conviction. "I didn't know what I was signing" isn't a legal defense, but it is a persuasive defense to a group people on a jury.

Second:
It's possible that the prosecution team (this is both the Manhattan DA and the NY Attorney General) will pressure Weisselberg with his family, threatening to jail his wife and children - for tax evasion, etc. I hope the prosecution goes after them if Weisselberg holds the line, because IMO he's the key to getting Trump. Cohen got us to here, and Weisselberg could take us home.

In most White Collar crimes (and I'm paraphrasing an earlier post of mine here) direct evidence in the form of documents usually isn't enough. Typically it takes the testimony of someone walking through the paperwork, or Telling the Story, to put it all into a coherent form for a jury to follow.

On another note, I'm not sure what Trump could be blackmailing Weisselberg with, but while anyone who knows Trump wouldn't doubt he'd do it, I wonder what it would be. Because right now Weisselberg is facing charges that would put him in jail for the rest of his life. I'm not sure what Trump would have that makes that choice the better one.

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Wasnt that the big issue of what got the Trump "Charity" shutdown?
Donald using it for personal expenses

Investigators found that Donnie and his idiot children essentially used the Trump "Charity" as an ATM (almost a direct quote), using monies from the charity for almost every conceivable kind of personal expense. It's why the entire family is barred from ever starting or working for a charity in NY.

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Have we talked about Donnie Dumb Dumb Jr admitting at least one felony count against Trump Org is true?

"My dad did that."
-Donald Trump, Jr. (July 1, 2021)

Keep in mind Trump Jr is an executive at the Trump Org, IIRC an Executive Vice President, so he literally speaks for the company; his words have legal ramifications (as an example, Elon Musk tweeted something about stop prices, and ended up paying a $50M fine to the SEC).

[PhaelixWW]

This will be a major concern for prosecutors. If Weisselberg holds the line, and insists that all illegal activity was done by himself, and NOT Trump, the prosecution will have a tough time getting directly to Trump. This is assuming that damning documents don't exist that point to Trump's direct culpability. But keep in mind, even a check signed by Trump isn't necessarily evidence enough to get a jury conviction. "I didn't know what I was signing" isn't a legal defense, but it is a persuasive defense to a group people on a jury.

Hooo boy, if Weisselberg doesn't actually plead out, voir dire is going to fucking nuts.

I can't even fathom what voir dire would be like if Trump himself were facing a jury.

Have we talked about Donnie Dumb Dumb Jr admitting at least one felony count against Trump Org is true?

"My dad did that."
-Donald Trump, Jr. (July 1, 2021)

Keep in mind Trump Jr is an executive at the Trump Org, IIRC an Executive Vice President, so he literally speaks for the company; his words have legal ramifications (as an example, Elon Musk tweeted something about stop prices, and ended up paying a $50M fine to the SEC).

I mean, we did, but... we don't need Jr. to throw daddy under the bus... Trump did that himself:

CNN: Trump seemingly acknowledges facts of prosecutors' case against Trump Organization while criticizing charges over 'fringe benefits'

Former President Donald Trump appeared to acknowledge the core facts in New York prosecutors' case against the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer even as he characterized the charges as a political attack aimed at him.

Trump told a crowd in Sarasota, Florida, on Saturday night that "every company" does "fringe benefits," but he mocked prosecutors for pursuing the charges, saying it is "reminiscent of a communist dictatorship targeting your political opponents." The comments mark the former President's most substantial yet on the charges after they were unsealed last week in the first criminal case against his namesake company.

"Never before has New York City and their prosecutors or perhaps any prosecutors criminally charged a company or a person for fringe benefits," Trump said. "Fringe benefits. Murders, OK; human trafficking, no problem. But fringe benefits, you can't do that."

An indictment unsealed Thursday by the Manhattan district attorney's office charged the company and an entity called Trump Payroll Corporation with 10 counts and Allen Weisselberg with 15 felony counts in connection with an alleged scheme stretching back to 2005 "to compensate Weisselberg and other Trump Organization executives in a manner that was 'off the books.' " They were charged with a scheme to defraud, conspiracy, criminal tax fraud, and falsifying business records. Weisselberg, who has pleaded not guilty, was also charged with grand larceny and offering a false instrument for filing.

Trump didn't dispute prosecutors' allegations that Weisselberg received off-the-books compensation during his rally Saturday night. He mentioned Weisselberg's car lease, apartment and tuition payments for his grandchildren.

"They go after good hard-working people for not paying taxes on a company car. Company car. You didn't pay tax on the car, or a company apartment, you used an apartment because you need an apartment, because you have to travel too far where your house is, didn't pay tax, or education for your grandchildren," Trump said. "I don't even know. Do you have to, does anybody know the answer to that stuff? OK? But they indict people for that."

"But they indict people for that. But for murder, and for selling massive amounts of the worst drugs in the world that kill people left and right, that's OK. Think of it, think of how unfair it is," he said.

As CNN previously reported, it is rare, according to lawyers who specialize in tax evasion cases, for prosecutors to bring charges solely related to fringe benefits provided by a company, and in recent weeks, lawyers for the Trump Organization met with prosecutors in Manhattan District attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.'s office, hoping to persuade them not to bring the case.

Trump on Saturday called the charges the latest in a line of legal attacks he has faced, linking them to former special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, possible Trump campaign collusion with Moscow and obstruction of justice. "I've been targeted since I came down the escalator," he said, referencing his infamous entrance into the 2016 campaign.

He also pointed to New York Attorney General Letitia James saying years ago that she would pursue Trump. "Knows nothing about me, all she knows is she's gonna get me, from the day she got in," Trump said, before mimicking her.

Trump also repeated his lies about the 2020 election and discussed the January 6 insurrection at the US Capitol.

[Breccia]

He also has at least two kids and possibly a larger extended family which might be protected if he takes the fall.

See, that's the part I keep going back to. NYState has some discretion about how much of the illegal money they take back and how. Trump Org is a much bigger fish, and they want to land it partly to get the stolen money back, and party because they're out for blood.

Likely an attempt to build some cred with the QAnon people

Yeah but...he doesn't have to. There are lies the rabid fanbase only pretends to believe, but even at their core they know it's false. But the QAnon people up to and including the treasonous insurrection? They'll just believe whatever Trump says like it's literal worship. He doesn't need to build cred.

But good catch on the "Clinton body bag" bit. Yes, these are people who are willing to believe the Clinton family murdered 100 people in secret and got away with it, while Trump couldn't possibly have cheated on the taxes he begged SCOTUS to hide even though there is now public evidence. There's leaning in a direction, there's partisan bias (guilty), then a yuge bigly gap, then that.

If Weisselberg holds the line, and insists that all illegal activity was done by himself, and NOT Trump

And that's when the other witnesses need to come into play. There must be a line 'round the block of people Trump fired who are willing to testify under oath "There is no chance Weaselberg acted without knowledge, permission, and consent". Like you said, Cohen is in the bullpen warming up his slider. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure 12 random people would believe Weaselberg if he said that, either, especially without the most realistic fallout if it were true: Trump throwing a Twitter Tantrum (or whatever he has to use anymore, Parler? GETTR? Screaming at clouds?) saying "I can't believe that man I trusted did this to me!" and firing him and suing him. If Trump says "Aww, what a poor fella, it's okay I won't press charges for stealing my money" the entire world will detect that lie instantly.

But that's not why it won't happen. If Weaselberg says "It was all me, not Trump" the very next thing that happens is "Okay, let's put Trump on the stand, Your Honor we'll need a subpoena."

BOOM. Defense ends. Trump would rather die than take the stand, and I'm not exaggerating by much. Melania would almost certainly Trump die before taking the stand. Without Trump's proven, sworn, oath-bound denial, Weaselberg's attempt to fall on the grenade is worthless. Trump refusing to take the stand -- which he'd at least try -- would instead be evidence Weaselberg is lying.

I can't think of any way in which Weaselberg claims under oath Trump knew nothing, and Trump somehow doesn't take the stand to back that play, and it somehow still works. It's a lie so glaringly bright and shiny, that Trump thinks it'd kill COVID.

Also, they find even a single letter, email or text that says otherwise, and Weaselberg also gets perjury. NYState has millions of documents. Granted, if Weaselberg is found guilty adding five more years is irrelevant because he'll still die in prison, so I guess there's that.

Also also, that would be the figurative and literal death of Weaselberg. There are three options involving that approach:
1) Weaselberg is pleading guilty, and NYState has to accept that plea -- despite getting nothing out of it. I handwave that option. NYState would not let Weaselberg plead to a reduced sentence in exchange for a guilty verdict they'd almost certainly get anyhow. If Weaselberg doesn't flip, NYState crushes him, and then sleeps soundly that night.
2) Weaselberg has a terminal illnesss and knows he won't survive the year anyhow. At that point, maybe he'd flip off NYState on his way to the afterlife. He won't need a sweater.
3) Or, of these three the most likely, Weaselberg could do this to protect Trump, but screws his family and Trump Org, because NYState would not give them any deal without Trump's head on a platter. This puts him in prison for a dog's age, during which he dies of old age.

So, yeah, if Weaselberg throws himself on the figurative sword, he literally dies because of it.

Now all of this is based on my moderately informed but in no way expert opinion. Did I miss something? You're the expert.

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Majority Whip Clyburn tells CNN that the Jan 6th panel might have to put Trump on the stand.

I would not want to see a former president testifying in such a situation as this. But if that's what it takes in order to get to the bottom of this, because this is more than any one person. This is this country

He didn't add but probably should have

I mean, Clinton had how many Benghazi hearings? Four? Eight? And Trump called her a criminal in public. Surely he's willing to admit the same treatment is fair. Or we'll get a subpoena and a forklift for his fat ass.

[cubby]

Hooo boy, if Weisselberg doesn't actually plead out, voir dire is going to fucking nuts.

I can't even fathom what voir dire would be like if Trump himself were facing a jury.

If Trump actually faces trial, it will be insane. I don't know if there is precedent for having a jury be held in secret, but this would be the time.

I mean, we did, but... we don't need Jr. to throw daddy under the bus... Trump did that himself:

CNN: Trump seemingly acknowledges facts of prosecutors' case against Trump Organization while criticizing charges over 'fringe benefits'

Trump is either that dumb or just gaslighting like usual. Either way it doesn't bode well for him - he is also an executive for his company, and his words also carry meaning in the law. If Weisselberg goes to trial, Trump will certainly be a part of the witness list. That will be awesome - Trump sworn in, with the threat of perjury hanging over his every word.

[PhaelixWW]

If Trump actually faces trial, it will be insane. I don't know if there is precedent for having a jury be held in secret, but this would be the time.

I just want to see how fast those peremptory challenges go. Would voting for Trump be enough to satisfy a challenge for cause?

At least these charges are certain to be brought up in New York. I can just imagine Trump's lawyers attempting to argue for a change of venue to, like, Wyoming. Yes, it's patently ridiculous, but, I mean... consider the types of lawyers Trump has "on his side": Giuliani, Powell, Wood...

[Edge-]

Have we talked about Donnie Dumb Dumb Jr admitting at least one felony count against Trump Org is true?

"My dad did that."
-Donald Trump, Jr. (July 1, 2021)

Keep in mind Trump Jr is an executive at the Trump Org, IIRC an Executive Vice President, so he literally speaks for the company; his words have legal ramifications (as an example, Elon Musk tweeted something about stop prices, and ended up paying a $50M fine to the SEC).

Jesus fucking christ. I get that he's not a lawyer like Gaetz, but he's surrounded by them and it should be pretty much common sense that, "If you're under investigation/indictment/charged or otherwise involved in any potential legal matter, especially if it is criminal, keep your mouth fucking shut unless you have a lawyer present and don't ever go on national TV and speak with media."

It truly is astounding how stupid "successful" people can be, and frequently are.

[cubby]

And that's when the other witnesses need to come into play. There must be a line 'round the block of people Trump fired who are willing to testify under oath "There is no chance Weaselberg acted without knowledge, permission, and consent". Like you said, Cohen is in the bullpen warming up his slider. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure 12 random people would believe Weaselberg if he said that, either, especially without the most realistic fallout if it were true: Trump throwing a Twitter Tantrum (or whatever he has to use anymore, Parler? GETTR? Screaming at clouds?) saying "I can't believe that man I trusted did this to me!" and firing him and suing him. If Trump says "Aww, what a poor fella, it's okay I won't press charges for stealing my money" the entire world will detect that lie instantly.

But that's not why it won't happen. If Weaselberg says "It was all me, not Trump" the very next thing that happens is "Okay, let's put Trump on the stand, Your Honor we'll need a subpoena."

BOOM. Defense ends. Trump would rather die than take the stand, and I'm not exaggerating by much. Melania would almost certainly Trump die before taking the stand. Without Trump's proven, sworn, oath-bound denial, Weaselberg's attempt to fall on the grenade is worthless. Trump refusing to take the stand -- which he'd at least try -- would instead be evidence Weaselberg is lying.

I can't think of any way in which Weaselberg claims under oath Trump knew nothing, and Trump somehow doesn't take the stand to back that play, and it somehow still works. It's a lie so glaringly bright and shiny, that Trump thinks it'd kill COVID.

Also, they find even a single letter, email or text that says otherwise, and Weaselberg also gets perjury. NYState has millions of documents. Granted, if Weaselberg is found guilty adding five more years is irrelevant because he'll still die in prison, so I guess there's that.

Also also, that would be the figurative and literal death of Weaselberg. There are three options involving that approach:
1) Weaselberg is pleading guilty, and NYState has to accept that plea -- despite getting nothing out of it. I handwave that option. NYState would not let Weaselberg plead to a reduced sentence in exchange for a guilty verdict they'd almost certainly get anyhow. If Weaselberg doesn't flip, NYState crushes him, and then sleeps soundly that night.
2) Weaselberg has a terminal illnesss and knows he won't survive the year anyhow. At that point, maybe he'd flip off NYState on his way to the afterlife. He won't need a sweater.
3) Or, of these three the most likely, Weaselberg could do this to protect Trump, but screws his family and Trump Org, because NYState would not give them any deal without Trump's head on a platter. This puts him in prison for a dog's age, during which he dies of old age.

So, yeah, if Weaselberg throws himself on the figurative sword, he literally dies because of it.

Now all of this is based on my moderately informed but in no way expert opinion. Did I miss something? You're the expert.

The problem with other witnesses is that no person exists between Trump and Weisselberg - the CFO reports directly to the CEO. If Weisselberg insists that he acted on his own authority, and testifies that Trump had no knowledge of the illegal payments and tax dodging activities, it would be very difficult to prove otherwise. Even with a document that shows otherwise (like an email from Trump requesting Weisselberg to do something blatantly illegal), prosecuting Trump would be difficult, as Trump's defense team would call Weisselberg to the stand, and he would testify it was all him, muddying the waters for a jury.

Weisselberg would probably get perjury attached to his crimes, but that wouldn't help get the actual target of all - Trump. The question will be whether Weisselberg is willing to die in prison for Trump. And, perhaps some of Weisselberg's family - they wouldn't die, but they could face criminal charges.

We need to see what the document review reveals - and the hearing in September. You can bet Weisselberg's attorneys will be VERY good. But that might also mean they push hard for a plea agreement, precisely because they are good.

[solinari6]

Jesus fucking christ. I get that he's not a lawyer like Gaetz, but he's surrounded by them and it should be pretty much common sense that, "If you're under investigation/indictment/charged or otherwise involved in any potential legal matter, especially if it is criminal, keep your mouth fucking shut unless you have a lawyer present and don't ever go on national TV and speak with media."

Maybe he's going with the "Trump could never get a fair trial because of all the incriminating things he's said in public. The entire United States jury pool is tainted!" defense?

[cubby]

I just want to see how fast those peremptory challenges go. Would voting for Trump be enough to satisfy a challenge for cause?

At least these charges are certain to be brought up in New York. I can just imagine Trump's lawyers attempting to argue for a change of venue to, like, Wyoming. Yes, it's patently ridiculous, but, I mean... consider the types of lawyers Trump has "on his side": Giuliani, Powell, Wood...

A change of venue would be argued by Trump's attorneys, and there is almost zero chance of it being granted. The trial would have to stay in NY State, regardless, because they are state charges.

But holy shit, yeah, I wonder how many peremptory charges each side would get. 20? 30? It would be crazy.

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Jesus fucking christ. I get that he's not a lawyer like Gaetz, but he's surrounded by them and it should be pretty much common sense that, "If you're under investigation/indictment/charged or otherwise involved in any potential legal matter, especially if it is criminal, keep your mouth fucking shut unless you have a lawyer present and don't ever go on national TV and speak with media."

It truly is astounding how stupid "successful" people can be, and frequently are.

And we should all remember that the Trump "success" is based upon years of grifing, lying, cheating, stealing, all predicated upon an eight figure inheritance Trump received from his father.

What keeps getting better about Dumbfuck, Jr's statement is that if he wasn't already on the witness list, he is now. They will put both Dipshit's on the stand, along with Eric, and possibly Ivanka. Get them under oath, and start the questions. The over/under on how quickly any of them perjure themselves is five minutes, and that includes foundation questions.

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Ivanka is also about to under indictment for fees paid to her as a "consultant" for the Trump Org while she was a paid executive for Trump Org. That kind of double dipping is entirely illegal, in two different ways, and ties the Trump Org into more charges and gets Ivanka pushed right in the middle. She could face personal charges, depending on how she filed her taxes.

[Breccia]

depending on how she filed her taxes.

This is why Trump hid them. Because they were evidence against him.

[cubby]

This is why Trump hid them. Because they were evidence against him.

It's sure looking that way. Weisselberg's indictment (along with Trump Org) is just the first move from the prosecutor's office. And I believe they had to do so partially because of statute of limitation issues.

[Breccia]

It's sure looking that way. Weisselberg's indictment (along with Trump Org) is just the first move from the prosecutor's office. And I believe they had to do so partially because of statute of limitation issues.

If you commit the same fraud over and over for 15 years, does the statute of limitations start when you started, when you end, the average, the median, the mode, the midrange, the 25th percentile, the Rogue DPS scale, the Nina, the Pinta, or the Santa Maria?

No really, I see 15 charges but crimes going back 15 years. Is NYState making 15 years of crimes, one charge, to remove exactly that issue?

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Keystone sues US.

Using a NAFTA rule, they--

"Trump left NAFTA."

Well, they're using a legacy law, something that was in place at the time but isn't any longer, which...uh...

"That doesn't sound legal. That sounds like ex post facto. If Trump ended NAFTA, NAFTA should not be in place."

Yeah, I'm curious about that, too. But apparently, they're suing for $15 billion for the sales they can't make and the workers they fired and --

"Wait, how much of the pipeline was built?"

Um...about eight percent.

"Those thousand workers, were they all full-time and American?"

They didn't say.

"Didn't they have two years to build? And didn't they know 2020 was an election year?"

There's also the lawsuit 21 states, all red states big surprise, that says Biden couldn't end the permit without Congress.

"Did Trump consult Congress before signing the permit in March 2019?"

No.

"So...they got the permit, built nearly nothing for 2 years, and are suing Biden for their lack of progress based on a law they campaigned against and hated? Wasn't exactly this a forseeable consequence of removing NAFTA and 2020's election?"

Don't bring personal accountability to the party of personal accountability, you'll make them look like hypocrites.

"Isn't this just another instance of Biden being held accountable for Team Trump's mistakes? I mean, this feels like the Wall here, where a big deal was made about a massive erection and now they're sad because it's smaller than they hoped and it won't stand up."

The Keystone Pipeline barely survived Trump's tenure. I'm not sure a judge will say that Keystone was going to make billions and billions for sure in Biden's tenure, when they barely got moving. Maybe if Trump had signed permits on Day One like he promised, more of Keystone would be built and their case in court would be stronger.

[cubby]

If you commit the same fraud over and over for 15 years, does the statute of limitations start when you started, when you end, the average, the median, the mode, the midrange, the 25th percentile, the Rogue DPS scale, the Nina, the Pinta, or the Santa Maria?

No really, I see 15 charges but crimes going back 15 years. Is NYState making 15 years of crimes, one charge, to remove exactly that issue?

Statute of Limitations usually keys off the discovery of the crime, not necessarily when it happened. HOWEVER, it entirely depends on the crime itself, and some more violent crimes have no SoL (like murder). It tends to get both very complicated and very dull simultaneously. But I think Vance is using another statute's SoL in bringing these crimes when he did.

There is another law to consider, and is, quite frankly, fucking awesome. NY has what's called a Little RICO statute, which can be invoked with proof of as few as three crimes involving a business or other enterprise. Looking at the indictment, we see Trump Org was charged with:

• One count of scheme to defraud in the first degree.
• One count of conspiracy in the fourth degree.
• One count of grand larceny in the second degree.
• Four counts of criminal tax fraud in the third degree.
• Four counts of offering a false instrument for filing in the first degree.
• Four counts of falsifying business records in the first degree.

NY's Little RICO statute classifies a "criminal act" [as] conduct constituting any crime -- or conspiracy or attempt to commit any felony -- specified in the statute. Looking back at the list of crimes in the indictment we see six separate felonies listed - all against the organization in general and the CFO specifically.

Manhattan DA Vance will have to secure three convictions to activate the Little RICO statute. Once that happens, the officers of the organization can be charged under the Little RICO, and will face a statutory required minimum of 1-3 years in prison. If I've got this right, and I could be missing something, Vance is going to obtain convictions (and a plea deal is a conviction) against the Trump Organization, and then take down the entire family, including Trump himself, with the Little RICO statute.

[Corvus]

It almost sounds like Trump's defence is that if he, someone who knows more about tax (evasion) than God, doesn't understand the rules then no one can and he shouldn't be prosecuted as a result.

[Masark]

It truly is astounding how stupid "successful" people can be, and frequently are.

It's simply a lack of selection pressure. They're stupid because they're wealthy.

If they were this stupid and poor, they'd be dead or at least in prison.

But because they inherited money, they're able to survive being stupid.

[Fugus]

It's simply a lack of selection pressure. They're stupid because they're wealthy.

If they were this stupid and poor, they'd be dead or at least in prison.

But because they inherited money, they're able to survive being stupid.

Not entirely true, I have seen some rather stupid people start poor and still do well, not because of their intellect though, but due to dumb luck and getting into a well paying job that doesn’t require smarts.

Just like how you can be smart and a good worker but still end up with nothing because of equally dumb luck and not being able to land a job worth crap.

Just like some where you have friends or family working for you to get them or sometimes have one of them actually working to sabotage you.

[beanman12345]

The problem with other witnesses is that no person exists between Trump and Weisselberg - the CFO reports directly to the CEO. If Weisselberg insists that he acted on his own authority, and testifies that Trump had no knowledge of the illegal payments and tax dodging activities, it would be very difficult to prove otherwise. Even with a document that shows otherwise (like an email from Trump requesting Weisselberg to do something blatantly illegal), prosecuting Trump would be difficult, as Trump's defense team would call Weisselberg to the stand, and he would testify it was all him, muddying the waters for a jury.

Weisselberg would probably get perjury attached to his crimes, but that wouldn't help get the actual target of all - Trump. The question will be whether Weisselberg is willing to die in prison for Trump. And, perhaps some of Weisselberg's family - they wouldn't die, but they could face criminal charges.

We need to see what the document review reveals - and the hearing in September. You can bet Weisselberg's attorneys will be VERY good. But that might also mean they push hard for a plea agreement, precisely because they are good.

I'm pretty sure one of W's sons work's at one of the lenders that has a couple hundred million out with Trump. Friday had to be pretty awkward going into work, probably hid all day waiting for the long weekend or maybe called off. Also that companies stock was down on Friday too...

[Azadina]

I'm pretty sure one of W's sons work's at one of the lenders that has a couple hundred million out with Trump. Friday had to be pretty awkward going into work, probably hid all day waiting for the long weekend or maybe called off. Also that companies stock was down on Friday too...

That's presuming (possibly unfairly) he's a person capable of feeling shame. I wouldn't count on it anywhere near Trumps orbit.