Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[EbaumsTipster]

I want to note that for the first time in a while it looks like the systems might be finished before the expansion is. Torghast feels complete with the easy soul ash and the “finale” rooms, we’ve gotten pretty much every reward outside of ARs from the covenants, Soulbinds seem stretched out enough and extra enhanced conduits would be silly.

What if there really are no new systems or additions to the existing systems in 9.2? The only one I really think would work is some extra renown to unlock ARs at the end but even then you would need to pad the other levels out...

Also Torghast continuing to be relevant after we leave the Shadowlands for wherever seems like an odd choice. They know it’s not too popular even if its not despised so I can see them quietly retiring it.

[Nathanyel]

FFXIV respects its players time. It is a video game first and foremost. It is not designed by a committee to get people to log in as much as possible.

I have no idea about FF endgame, but I doubt more than 10% of the people that started playing during the current trend have yet reached the point where there are no more story quests, and aside from the maxlevel raids, only daily dungeons left to grind - the hate for Praetorium is palpable even to me as a non-player
(I see levelling other jobs as essentially alt gameplay, so I don't see it as true primary progress)

If a western game designer told people to play another game while they work on updates they would be crucified. Completely different culture, in America its a huge sign of weakness that people would prey on like animals.

This is actually exactly what happened when Ion suggested something to that amount some years back. Stripping out the pure hate, the replies stated "I want to always have something to do in WoW" - which was then followed by the AP grind.

I am hoping they do a soft reboot for 10.0's story. You don't have to be an old player to know Turalyon = military light guy, Thrall = nice guy orc, Azhara = bad tentacle elf, etc.

I mean, they don't even have to change anything about the old story for that. While knowing the story of previous expansions and even the RTS games helps, it's far from mandatory at this point:
The Legion, which was the ultimate cause for all expansions but Cata and MoP, is defeated, so any future appearances of demons can just be seen as generic baddies by new players.
Exile's Reach introduces you via example characters to the core races minus Pandaren.
BfA as the default 10-50 experience introduces the last gasp of the Faction Conflict, which I believe will only receive mentions from now on, or only minor flare-ups. Not that you need a specific explanation why Orcs and Humans might not like each other much.
Shadowlands, while referencing a lot of older things, mainly consists of new story hooks.
10.0 remains to be seen, but will likely not be strongly based on content before Legion either.

They can make up lore for anything, I just don't see it on a logistical basis. I imagine they probably understand how poorly pushing Nightborne to one side and thus rendering an entire storyline non-existent for half of the player base felt and probably won't want to repeat that by like, randomly having Venthyr decide to join up with the Horde and fuck any Alliance who have spent the whole expansion part of that covenant, or vice versa.

Just as then, what your character did is not necessarily canon.

However, these concerns are irrelevant if playable Covenant 'races' come as a form of "ascension" for your existing character. Faction allegiances remain as they were before, and even if multiple Mawwalkers and thus multiple people, of different factions, in the same Covenant, are canon, as hinted by off-hand mentions ingame, the player Venthyr is not someone your character assisted before. Not that PvP will be relevant outside of BGs (essentially re-enactments) or Arenas (gladiator matches ignoring factions) or Warmode (basically your individual character fucking up/getting fucked by other individuals of the other faction)

[Varodoc]

Objectively the issues the Shadowlands systems had have already been fixed in 9.1. Covenant switching has finally been addressed, Conduits have been fixed with the removal of the energy cost, and Torghast has been overhauled and expanded with a new talent system.

That's why 9.1 is comparable to 8.2 in how both patches fix the systems of the expansion. Just like BfA fixed Azerite armour by introducing Essences.

Of course you can make the argument that those systems are all dogshit, but at least they are now dogshit AND fixed

I can't imagine a scenario where 9.2 is bigger than 9.1 content-wise.

[EbaumsTipster]

I can't imagine a scenario where 9.2 is bigger than 9.1 content-wise.

The zone(s) will be bigger than Korthia easily but the patch may be smaller by way of no megadungeon. Will be interesting to see if it’s Argus sized or its another 8.3 so they can go full steam ahead with 10.0.

I’m sure nobody will care if it’s small if they show off 10.0, which sounds surprisingly likely based on Ion talking about the future of the game so much.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Respecting player's time"

I think that opinion is not universal for any MMO.

[Sondrelk]

I want to note that for the first time in a while it looks like the systems might be finished before the expansion is. Torghast feels complete with the easy soul ash and the “finale” rooms, we’ve gotten pretty much every reward outside of ARs from the covenants, Soulbinds seem stretched out enough and extra enhanced conduits would be silly.

What if there really are no new systems or additions to the existing systems in 9.2? The only one I really think would work is some extra renown to unlock ARs at the end but even then you would need to pad the other levels out...

Also Torghast continuing to be relevant after we leave the Shadowlands for wherever seems like an odd choice. They know it’s not too popular even if its not despised so I can see them quietly retiring it.

Torghast will likely be made into a new and improved rogue-lite, similar to how Torghast in turn was an improvement on N'zoth visions and Islands.

[EbaumsTipster]

Torghast will likely be made into a new and improved rogue-lite, similar to how Torghast in turn was an improvement on N'zoth visions and Islands.

Oh I'm sure the tech will remain I just don't think we'll get a Torghast expansion in 9.2.

[Nyel]

Oh I'm sure the tech will remain I just don't think we'll get a Torghast expansion in 9.2.

I mean we’re done with the Shadowlands and the Maw / Torghast in particular, so it would be weird to give that feature something fresh or new content. Tweaks maybe, but besides that I wouldn’t expect anything.

[Sondrelk]

Oh I'm sure the tech will remain I just don't think we'll get a Torghast expansion in 9.2.

I imagine we might see some sort of extra reward added, or otherwise some way to make gathering the cosmetics a bit easier instead of going throug hthe entire thing and hopingyou get lucky.
If anything just something so you can buy the shoulder mogs with excess soul cinders or something.

[EbaumsTipster]

I mean we’re done with the Shadowlands and the Maw / Torghast in particular, so it would be weird to give that feature something fresh or new content. Tweaks maybe, but besides that I wouldn’t expect anything.

That's one of the most interesting things to me: Zovaal is the final boss, but we just did the Zovaal themed raid. Is it like Legion where we get two raids fighting demons in a row, or will Lich King Zovaal have a different army? I guess you can include Drust, Dreadlords and maybe Devourers (Drust and Devourers both fit his new color scheme) to spice things up but it will be odd to fight Maw people again.

[micwini]

That's one of the most interesting things to me: Zovaal is the final boss, but we just did the Zovaal themed raid. Is it like Legion where we get two raids fighting demons in a row, or will Lich King Zovaal have a different army? I guess you can include Drust, Dreadlords and maybe Devourers (Drust and Devourers both fit his new color scheme) to spice things up but it will be odd to fight Maw people again.

It could be a ToS kind of deal where the raid itself is not really the home base of the last boss, but instead invaded by him. If it is a First Ones themed/Sepulcher raid, I can easily see some more fights with the same art theme as guardian in SoD with Zovaal being the last boss in Icecrown or something.

[EbaumsTipster]

It could be a ToS kind of deal where the raid itself is not really the home base of the last boss, but instead invaded by him. If it is a First Ones themed/Sepulcher raid, I can easily see some more fights with the same art theme as guardian in SoD with Zovaal being the last boss in Icecrown or something.

That makes sense. It could be a mix of First One robots, Zovaal Groupies (Mal'ganis, Anduin) and then Zovaal himself once he's activated the Sepulcher or is about to.

Are we missing any more WC3 bait Zovaal friends that didn't die in Sanctum? Oh shit, I forgot about Nathanos

[Nyel]

That's one of the most interesting things to me: Zovaal is the final boss, but we just did the Zovaal themed raid. Is it like Legion where we get two raids fighting demons in a row, or will Lich King Zovaal have a different army? I guess you can include Drust, Dreadlords and maybe Devourers (Drust and Devourers both fit his new color scheme) to spice things up but it will be odd to fight Maw people again.

Yeah it’s really weird. I mean the next raid can’t have Maw-stuff etc, it would feel incredibly weird. As you said, 9.1 already had that type of raid. That’s why I think it’s hard to imagine what exactly the next raid will be and what bosses it will contain. The entire Death-theme feels overused at this point. But what else?

We have Anduin and Zovaal. That leaves about 8-10 other bosses which are unknown as of now. Maybe, maybe one boss from the Maw, but I just find it weird if that’s the case because Zovaal basically abandoned them. Maybe something related to his domination magic? Maybe a domination construct. Maybe Arthas (although that would feel weird as well after we had Kaelthas just two raids before).

[Nathanyel]

That's one of the most interesting things to me: Zovaal is the final boss, but we just did the Zovaal themed raid. Is it like Legion where we get two raids fighting demons in a row, or will Lich King Zovaal have a different army? I guess you can include Drust, Dreadlords and maybe Devourers (Drust and Devourers both fit his new color scheme) to spice things up but it will be odd to fight Maw people again.

Well, Tomb of Sargeras wasn't just Legion enemies, but also Naga (not sure if these were confirmed to be Legion-aligned or under Azshara's orders) and the Undead NElves, while Desolate Host is a mix of Undead&Fel.

So, like ToS wasn't fully Legion-themed, a Sepulcher raid could feature bosses that were there before, metaphorical shelves that the Jailer pulls over to hinder our hunt.
Guardian Constructs that don't see us as friendly, feral/insane invaders like the Devourers, opportunists like the Drust.

[EbaumsTipster]

Yeah it’s really weird. I mean the next raid can’t have Maw-stuff etc, it would feel incredibly weird. As you said, 9.1 already had that type of raid. That’s why I think it’s hard to imagine what exactly the next raid will be and what bosses it will contain. The entire Death-theme feels overused at this point. But what else?

We have Anduin and Zovaal. That leaves about 8-10 other bosses which are unknown as of now. Maybe, maybe one boss from the Maw, but I just find it weird if that’s the case because Zovaal basically abandoned them. Maybe something related to his domination magic? Maybe a domination construct. Maybe Arthas (although that would feel weird as well after we had Kaelthas just two raids before).

Anduin, Mal'ganis (they outright said he would be where Zovaal is), Nathanos (maybe as a defense shield Zovaal made in case Sylvanas betrayed him). That's 3, 4 is Zovaal, which leaves at least 4 OC bosses.

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Maybe we will be getting a smaller raid this time.

[micwini]

That makes sense. It could be a mix of First One robots, Zovaal Groupies (Mal'ganis, Anduin) and then Zovaal himself once he's activated the Sepulcher or is about to.

Are we missing any more WC3 bait Zovaal friends that didn't die in Sanctum? Oh shit, I forgot about Nathanos

Possibly Helya and Muezala as well.
So if 9.2 is the last patch + raid:
- Insert 4-5 first ones themed bosses or possibly another Dreadlord encounter
- Malganis
- Helya
- Muehzala (?)
- Nathanos
- Anduin
- Zovaal

[Nathanyel]

Other Jailer-aligned bosses could still be varied:

• Helya, who is down but not out. Possibly with some connection to the Drust, which are Vrykul, after all. Maybe some hints that her Kvaldir are defecting to the Drust, or the Drust assault her, we have to fight both sides and kill them quasi-simultaneously, so that neither side can absorb the others' powers.
• Mal'ganis and/or other Dreadlords, a Council of Dread, if you will.
• the freed Denathrius, looking more disheveled and angry than his 9.0 appearance (bonus points for "just a setback" jokes, even better if Kael's present to lampshade this)
• an encounter to subdue/free Anduin, although I'm not yet sure whether I would like or dislike this. It doesn't feel original, but Anduin breaking free on his own, by chance or by being discarded by the Jailer would feel anticlimactic (I don't believe he dies)

[EbaumsTipster]

Other Jailer-aligned bosses could still be varied:
[B][*]the freed Denathrius, looking more disheveled and angry than his 9.0 appearance (bonus points for "just a setback" jokes, even better if Kael's present to lampshade this)[/LIST]

We're only getting another Denny boss this soon if they have him full Dreadlord with wings and hooves (which he seems to have, just hidden).But I think Mal'ganis is more likely because he is connected to Arthas so heavily AND they can save Denny for later.

[Nathanyel]

We're only getting another Denny boss this soon if they have him full Dreadlord with wings and hooves (which he seems to have, just hidden).But I think Mal'ganis is more likely because he is connected to Arthas so heavily AND they can save Denny for later.

Yeah was too vague with the "disheveled", it wouldn't just be unkempt clothes, he'd turn into a menacing Dreadlord.

Just as a joke though, what if he was just a dungeon boss, to really hammer home the Kael'thas analogy?

[Ersula]

She's hot instead if rotting corpse like any other Forsaken.

Except she is rotting under those robes.

TBC SoM and WotLK

Wrath of the Lich King Classic isn't set to release until June 2023, or April 2023 if they keep the identical Wrath schedule.
TBC Season of Mastery would still be January 2023 if their stated schedule is to reduce the original Classic phases duration by 1 month each.

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We're only getting another Denny boss this soon if they have him full Dreadlord with wings and hooves (which he seems to have, just hidden).But I think Mal'ganis is more likely because he is connected to Arthas so heavily AND they can save Denny for later.

Pretty sure Denathrius escaping is just to set him up as the male equivalent to Azshara: Someone who's omnipresent to antagonize the players but we'll never really beat, long after the Jailer is dead.