Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Val the Moofia Boss]

You're just stuck in this Star Wars mentality where someone needs to die to be redeemed. Illidan having to stand jailer over Sargeras forever IS accountability.

Felt more like he was having fun torturing Sargeras rather than being forced to suffer for his actions.

And if we're talking about the zeitgeist, MCU Loki killed a few billion people but they'll never stop featuring him in their stories. He's too entertaining.

I bailed out of the MCU pretty early on due to how bad it was (combination of poor writing, poor acting, forgettable music, meh aesthetics, etc) so I don't know what else he has done. I think he might have killed an entire army in the second Thor movie? I don't know.

It is possible to have a protagonist who is unrepentantly evil (The Black Company series of books about a bloodthirsty mercenary group of stone cold killers and robbers, the Rance series of VNs about a barbarian conqueror and a serial rapist, etc), but those narratives don't pretend that the protagonist is ackshually a good, righteous hero we should cheer for like Blizzard constantly tries to do.

[Khaza-R]

Stormwind doesn't need a revamp. The city aesthetically holds up, is functional, and is overall up to date with the lore, even if it isn't at the size it should be. If an alliance cities were to be revamped, it should be the Exodar (canonically repaired as of a Cata story) and Gilneas (should have been retaken and cleansed of the plague).

For Orgrimmar, I'd like the evil black iron mordor architecture that went up under Garrosh' tenure to be removed. Revert back to the more colorful, more welcoming aesthetics under Thrall's tenure.

Thunder Bluff should start having the tents replaced by permanent buildings.

Silvermoon badly needs to be repaired.

Stormwind probably aged the best out of any of the old cities but its still in desperate need of attention. New players are thrown into Boralus which is full of flavor and incredible detail. Then they have to go to Stormwind which is the de facto capital of the entire Alliance.

As for Orgrimmar, I completely agree. They need get rid of all the metal. Go back to the softer stone appearance. Something like updated WSG just grander would look nice.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Stormwind and Orgrimmar are Canonically stated to be the capitals of the Alliance and Horde respectively, that's why they're the main player hubs.

I think players should be allowed to choose where they wish to chill out. You were able to do this in early WoW, but again for some reason Blizzard started trying to coral players into one spot whether they liked it or not. For some reason, GW2 has been doing the same thing as of late. It used to be that you could pick whichever of the 6 cities you wanted to chill out at, but then with Icebrood they've been moving all of the utilities to the Eye of the North, artificially trying to make the playerbase move over there whether they like it or not.

[huth]

I honestly have a hard time believing they would announce the expansion a Month later for this expansion when the entire point of this expansion was to get us to this reset point for 10.0. But, at the same time I guess they could somehow reveal it without actually revealing how we got to this new Azeroth. But, who knows.

Narratively, it would probably make the most sense to delay the announcement until Zovaal encounter is available, so as to not spoil the ending. Guess it depends a bit if that works with their business plan, though given that they decided to split the raid release for narrative reasons, i could see them do it.

[Ersula]

Felt more like he was having fun torturing Sargeras rather than being forced to suffer for his actions.

Why must accountability be synonymous with suffering? Also they literally just made a show where Loki is the hero. It's pretty good.

[KainneAbsolute]

In an interview, Blizzard reveals that we will fight the Pantheon of Death prototype. What if the plot twist is the Jailer discovers that everything he is doing is part of the plan of the First Ones? They designed him for the sole purpose of being the final Challenge between the mortal races and their absolute free will.

[The Stormbringer]

she just got here. shes been trapped in that crystal since warcraft 3 until zovaal shattered it and plunged her soul back into her body.

Wrongo. This is more like a fusion of the two Sylvanases, not the "Good Sylvanas" just suddenly reappearing. It's a lot like when Varian was two people and eventually merged back together, only this with much more severe changes, and possibly still being undead on top.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

In an interview, Blizzard reveals that we will fight the Pantheon of Death prototype. What if the plot twist is the Jailer discovers that everything he is doing is part of the plan of the First Ones? They designed him for the sole purpose of being the final Challenge between the mortal races and their absolute free will.

What does fighting the jailer have anything to do with "free will"?

[Nyel]

In an interview, Blizzard reveals that we will fight the Pantheon of Death prototype. What if the plot twist is the Jailer discovers that everything he is doing is part of the plan of the First Ones? They designed him for the sole purpose of being the final Challenge between the mortal races and their absolute free will.

And then? What’s the point?

[RobertMugabe]

as we all know blizzcon was canceled...
so probably I can post it...

that aged well

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Wrongo. This is more like a fusion of the two Sylvanases, not the "Good Sylvanas" just suddenly reappearing. It's a lot like when Varian was two people and eventually merged back together, only this with much more severe changes, and possibly still being undead on top.

Correct, she may still act snarkily and patronize us. Thats my expectation and no I'm not gonna rage if its different. I already said my feelings about Shadowlands.

[Ersula]

Correct, she may still act snarkily and patronize us. Thats my expectation and no I'm not gonna rage if its different. I already said my feelings about Shadowlands.

Actually they specified that the soul remnant taken by Frostmorne just locks you into your emotional state when you died. That's why Uther & Sylvanas were both feeling particularly hurt & vengeful. Because people were rightfully confused by how responsible she was for her actions if she wasn't in her right mind. While also still sidestepping any questions about how necessary her actions were considering no one besides the Jailer was proporting to fix the machine of Death

It still feels like the result of too many conflicting ideas. Like why were the Night Elf Dark Rangers given the same cosmetic affectations when they weren't killed by Frostmorne? They were raised with Valkyr like all post-third-war forsaken. If they still have red eyes shouldn't Sylvanas still have red eyes??

[Varodoc]

I think players should be allowed to choose where they wish to chill out. You were able to do this in early WoW, but again for some reason Blizzard started trying to coral players into one spot whether they liked it or not. For some reason, GW2 has been doing the same thing as of late. It used to be that you could pick whichever of the 6 cities you wanted to chill out at, but then with Icebrood they've been moving all of the utilities to the Eye of the North, artificially trying to make the playerbase move over there whether they like it or not.

You can chill out wherever you want.

I often chill out in Telogrus Rift when I'm waiting for a long queue or just chatting with people to pass some time.

This doesn't change the fact that, Canonically, since Stormwind and Orgrimmar are the faction capitals, the main storylines and services will be given there... It just kind of makes sense.

[KainneAbsolute]

What does fighting the Jailer have anything to do with "free will"?

It seems the main topic of the expansion: choice/purpose and free will.

- The attendants talk about the purpose.
- The covenants judge based on the actions and decisions of the mortals. Despite their good deeds, in some cases, their memories are taken away.
- Uther, Sylvanas, Arthas, and Anduin's souls were cut. Their decisions were their own, or perhaps half-souls influenced. We talk about domination magic, the same magic it was applied against the Jailer.
- Sylvanas tried to convince Anduin to do not to let the Jailer control him. Sylvanas indicates they are not free, but she did not provide more details.
- Elune valued that Tyrande took her own decision between vengeance and renewal. Thus, despite the hatred, Tyrande was able to choose.
- Sylvanas was convinced by the Jailer the system was flawed. Then, too late, she noticed she was another pawn.

According to Sylvanas, "every decision is made for us," we need a new system where we "control of our fate." Even the Jailer says that every soul has "its purpose." Maybe the Jailer has no agency in his decision. Perhaps only mortals are the only ones who can choose their fate.

In addition, it is a common topic in WoW that the "hope resides in mortal hands." Mortals do not need Guardians, Aspects, Titans...and now, Covenants/First ones.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It seems the main topic of the expansion: choice/purpose and free will.

- The attendants talk about the purpose.
- The covenants judge based on the actions and decisions of the mortals. Despite their good deeds, in some cases, their memories are taken away.
- Uther, Sylvanas, Arthas, and Anduin's souls were cut. Their decisions were their own, or perhaps half-souls influenced. We talk about domination magic, the same magic it was applied against the Jailer.
- Sylvanas tried to convince Anduin to do not to let the Jailer control him. Sylvanas indicates they are not free, but she did not provide more details.
- Elune valued that Tyrande took her own decision between vengeance and renewal. Thus, despite the hatred, Tyrande was able to choose.
- Sylvanas was convinced by the Jailer the system was flawed. Then, too late, she noticed she was another pawn.

According to Sylvanas, "every decision is made for us," we need a new system where we "control of our fate." Even the Jailer says that every soul has "its purpose." Maybe the Jailer has no agency in his decision. Perhaps only mortals are the only ones who can choose their fate.

In addition, it is a common topic in WoW that the "hope resides in mortal hands." Mortals do not need Guardians, Aspects, Titans...and now, Covenants/First ones.

Sylvanas didn't say "Don't let the Jailer control you."

When in fact she basically put him in the spot to be controlled but thats Zovaal's way, everyone is a drone and serves him. Its just Sylvanas is so deluded thinking she is on top of things when infact she is just another pawn. The Shadowlands system( haha) is indeed flawed but very obviously Zovaal only told a different story.

Uther and Sylvanas's souls were cut but not Arthas but really does it matter? He was made to serve nonetheless.

[Furytofthedragons]

Surprised they were forward with how we are returning to Azeroth.

See you at the Dragon Isles.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

See you at the Dragon Isles.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about the dragon plotline in WoW. I guess maybe it'd be cool to see the Black Dragonflight repopulate somehow because I'm invested in those two characters but otherwise that's it.

A boss fight with Galakrond would be cool (or some other humongous dragon pulled out of thin air because why not, the writers don't respect the lore anyways), especially if he was the size of a mountain and you could walk on top of him and inside of him. GW2 did that with Kralkatorik at the end of season 4.

[Syegfryed]

and people though it would be a 9.3 with the shitshow this expansion was, in both terms of lore and gameplay. in all and all, it was best to just finish this crap storyline that nobody cares, and almost no one want more time with sylvanus and TRY to start fresh.

But, is hard for then to learn their lesson, but i expect/want, something to do with dragons, is about time.

[Ersula]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sepulcher_of_Knowledge
So how many places will Dansuer name "the Sepulcher" in the ninth expansion? 5? 6?

[s_bushido]

and people though it would be a 9.3 with the shitshow this expansion was, in both terms of lore and gameplay

Too bad there was no back-patting for all the people absolutely convinced they were going to skip 8.3 because "BFA bad!" too. Guess 1 out of 2 isn't bad.